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Engineer's Vs Commodious Toolbox 🧰

CountOfTheFog CountOfTheFog
in General Discussions

I have heard a few people say that the Commodious is better than the Engineer's for repairing generators.

I have to be missing something here, don't they equal the exact same amount of progress?

Assume one Survivor brings the blue 🧰 and another brings the purple, and that neither have add-ons nor gen speed perks...

If they start repairing two different generators at the same time and hit only good skill checks (no greats) by the time the toolboxes are depleted, won't they have literally repaired the same amount?

1000026262.jpg 1000026261.jpg

The charges drop in half if you use the purple but the speed is doubled so doesn't that come out equally when comparing them?

What am I missing?

Why do people say Commodious is better than the purple rarity Engineer's?

Comments

  • crogers271 crogers271

    Well skill checks are a big deal, but taking those out

    To my understanding, the faster repair speed depletes the charges faster. You are reading 32/16 as seconds, not charges.

    Perhaps a clearer way to think about it:

    Commodious: Until you get to 32 charges, you work at 1.5 times speed.

    Engineer's: Until you get to 16 charges, you work at 2 times speed.

    So the Commodious let's you get 32 charges done (or 35.56% of the gen) in 21.333 seconds.

    The Mechanics (edit: Engineer's - tired brain) let's you get 16 charges done (or 17.78% of the gen) in 8 seconds, then the next 16 charges take a second a piece.

    So to get to 32 charges with the Commodious takes 21.333 seconds, while it takes 24 seconds with the Mechanics.

    I'm exhausted so my math might be off, but here's a thread on the topic from a year ago from @UndeddJester.

  • UndeddJester UndeddJester

    @crogers271 said:

    Well skill checks are a big deal, but taking those out

    To my understanding, the faster repair speed depletes the charges faster. You are reading 32/16 as seconds, not charges.

    Perhaps a clearer way to think about it:

    Commodious: Until you get to 32 charges, you work at 1.5 times speed.

    Engineer's: Until you get to 16 charges, you work at 2 times speed.

    So the Commodious let's you get 32 charges done (or 35.56% of the gen) in 21.333 seconds.

    The Mechanics let's you get 16 charges done (or 17.78% of the gen) in 8 seconds, then the next 16 charges take a second a piece.

    So to get to 32 charges with the Commodious takes 21.333 seconds, while it takes 24 seconds with the Mechanics.

    I'm exhausted so my math might be off, but here's a thread on the topic from a year ago from @UndeddJester.

    Aye the consumption rate is tied to the repair speed. Maths looks good to me.

    I actually worked oit you meant Engineer'sToolbox instead of Mechanics Toolbox after I'd already typed this out... so for sake of interest and to push my own agenda of removing the Mechanics Toolbox... here is the Mechanics Toolbox, which is supposedly similar value to the Commodius... despite losing to it on literally every single front... 😒

    Mechanics Toolbox - 1.75 c/s for 16 charges.

    Base: 16 charges in 9.143 seconds. +74 charges remaining = 83.143s to complete a gen.

    Add-ons: 36 charges in 20.571 seconds. +54 charges remaining = 74.571s to complete a gen.

    BNP+AO: 28 charges in 16 seconds. +62 (- 10 for BNP = 52 charges remaining = 68s to complete a gen.

    Streetwise: 45 charges in 25.714s. +45 charges remaining = 70.714s to complete a gen.

    @UndeddJester said:

    So I've long heard that Commodius toolboxes are better than Engineer's toolboxes from many sources, and I've just accepted it as fact.

    I created a build recently centered around Scavenger and my logic was, if I take the toolbox that expends charges faster, I can take a full set of charge addons, expend my Toolbox quicker and start getting Scavenger stacks to get it back... the value probably balances out...

    So I started doing the maths vs.the Commodius Toolbox... and it doesn't add up, the Engineers Toolbox comes out better at base... can someone tell me where I'm going wrong please?

    • Generator: 90 charges
    • Repair Speed: 1 c/s
    • Commodius: 1.5 c/s for 32 charges
    • Engineers: 2 c/s for 16 charges

    As far as I understand, charges in toolboxes = charges on gens. So with that in mind, with full charge add-ons, we add 20 charges. Streetwise for efficiency interest effectively adds 25% (x1.25) extra charges on the total.

    The formula for generator repairs is a simple:

    • Time = Charges / Charges_per_second

    Commodius Toolbox

    Base: 32 charges in 21.333 seconds. +58 charges remaining = 79.333s to complete a gen.

    Add-ons: 52 charges in 34.667 seconds. +38 charges remaining = 72.667s to complete a gen.

    BNP+AO: 44 charges in 29.333 seconds. +46 (-10 for BNP) = 36 charges remaining = 65.333s to complete a gen.

    Streetwise: 65 charges in 43.333s. +25 charges remaining = 68.333s to complete a gen.

    Engineer's Toolbox

    Base: 16 charges in 8 seconds. +74 charges remaining = 82s to complete a gen.

    Add-ons: 36 charges in 18 seconds. +54 charges remaining = 72s to complete a gen.

    BNP+AO: 28 charges in 14 seconds. +62 (- 10 for BNP = 52 charges remaining = 66s to complete a gen.

    Streetwise: 45 charges in 22.5s. +45 charges remaining = 67.5s to complete a gen.

    Conclusion

    At base, yes the Commodius is better, but with full charge add-ons, it loses to the Engineer's Toolbox, and of course the Engineer's Toolbox gets its charges down faster, so if you want to finish off a generator quickly due to time pressure, the Engineer's is better too. Commodius wins out on BNP but again the difference is negligible....

    Is my maths wrong somewhere? Or have I misunderstood something? Plz correct me if I'm wrong...

    Also... if I'm right... Engineer's Toolbox with full add-ons with Scavenger... it's kinda the sauce.

    The 40% skillcheck bonus is a really big deal for the Commodius with several perks too. Anything like Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Fast Track and Bardic Inspiration is actually very solid with Commodius Toolbox, and contrary to popular opinion, you actually don't want Prove Thyself with it, since repair speed means less skillchecks. Efficiency from Streetwise meanwhile, effectively translates to 25% extra charges, which gives you even more skillcheck value.

    Whereas perks like Blast Mine, Flashbang, Chemical Trap, Wiretap, Potential Energy and Scavenger do want repair speed cause you want to get their value prepared faster... where you might get better value from an Engineers Toolbox.

    Mechanics Toolbox is a poor man's Engineer's Toolbox... delete Mechanics toolbox from the game! (And worn tools while we're at it)

  • CountOfTheFog CountOfTheFog

    @UndeddJester said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930136#Comment_3930136

    Aye the consumption rate is tied to the repair speed. Maths looks good to me.

    I actually worked oit you meant Engineer'sToolbox instead of Mechanics Toolbox after I'd already typed this out... so for sake of interest and to push my own agenda of removing the Mechanics Toolbox... here is the Mechanics Toolbox, which is supposedly similar value to the Commodius... despite losing to it on literally every single front... 😒

    Mechanics Toolbox - 1.75 c/s for 16 charges.

    Base: 16 charges in 9.143 seconds. +74 charges remaining = 83.143s to complete a gen.

    Add-ons: 36 charges in 20.571 seconds. +54 charges remaining = 74.571s to complete a gen.

    BNP+AO: 28 charges in 16 seconds. +62 (- 10 for BNP = 52 charges remaining = 68s to complete a gen.

    Streetwise: 45 charges in 25.714s. +45 charges remaining = 70.714s to complete a gen.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/406392/commodius-vs-engineers-toolbox-where-is-my-math-wrong

    The 40% skillcheck bonus is a really big deal for the Commodius with several perks too. Anything like Hyperfocus, Stake Out, Fast Track and Bardic Inspiration is actually very solid with Commodius Toolbox, and contrary to popular opinion, you actually don't want Prove Thyself with it, since repair speed means less skillchecks. Efficiency from Streetwise meanwhile, effectively translates to 25% extra charges, which gives you even more skillcheck value.

    Whereas perks like Blast Mine, Flashbang, Chemical Trap, Wiretap, Potential Energy and Scavenger do want repair speed cause you want to get their value prepared faster... where you might get better value from an Engineers Toolbox.

    Mechanics Toolbox is a poor man's Engineer's Toolbox... delete Mechanics toolbox from the game! (And worn tools while we're at it)

    I never see anything in the description about 40% skill check bonus.

    I thought hitting a good skill check just keeps the generator repairing with no extra progress whereas a great skill check adds 1% additional progress. Am I correct or confused on this 🤔

  • UndeddJester UndeddJester

    @CountOfTheFog said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3930144#Comment_3930144

    I never see anything in the description about 40% skill check bonus.

    I thought hitting a good skill check just keeps the generator repairing with no extra progress whereas a great skill check adds 1% additional progress. Am I correct or confused on this 🤔

    Aye it's a hidden stat that is surprisingly important. Base is 8% chance, Toolbox is a 40% chance. 😁

    Only place I know it to be listed is here:

    https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Skill_Checks#Statistics

    Your understanding is correct, great skills checks give 1% additional progress.

  • SoGo SoGo

    I think you're right. Commodious and Engineer's are almost the same strength wise.

    Also, I agree with @UndeddJester that the Mechanic's Toolbox is not worth it and should be removed

  • SoGo SoGo

    I think you're right. Commodious and Engineer's are almost the same strength wise.

    Also, I agree with @UndeddJester that the Mechanic's Toolbox is not worth it and should be removed.

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