Something More For 1v2 Scenarios
As part of their QoL Initiative, BHVR announced some changes to prevent people from excessively hiding in unwinnable matches where there's only two survivors left. In general, this is a great idea, nobody wants to be stuck in a match where the only thing you're gaining by stalling is just… stalling. The killer still wins, you're only wasting everyone's time.
However, I think more could be done, specifically to push the killer towards hooking whoever they down first, which is another way these endgame scenarios can be stalled out, and to give the last two survivors a touch more hope than they would have now — without giving them an actually viable way to both win the match, of course.
Here's what I propose: When there are two survivors left alive, the hatch will spawn and can be interacted with, but with three caveats.
- The hatch spawns closed, and must be opened with a Key while both survivors are still alive
- When the hatch spawns and until it is opened, it's visible only to the survivors
- When the hatch is opened via key this way, a survivor escaping through it closes the hatch for 20 seconds, after which it opens again like normal
The idea is that, because you can't just crouch in a bush and stall it out anymore, you actually have something constructive to do instead of just running at the killer- try and find the hatch, and then either your teammate dies and you get to use the Hatch yourself, or you can sprint around looking for chests to open in the hopes of getting a key, which puts you more at risk of being seen by the killer.
From the killer's perspective, this also means that slugging for the 4K becomes slightly riskier, because you're giving the standing survivor time to find the hatch and potentially a key to get out— or just to get out immediately if they brought a key with them. You can't see the hatch until you sacrifice the survivor you've left on the ground, so if you want that to be an even playing field, you need to go ahead and hook them already.
But, by contrast, it's by no means guaranteed. There may be no keys on the map at all, or the killer might find you before you can open the hatch to begin with. Even in the best case scenario, where a SWF make sure to bring keys so they can leave the match slightly early… they still can't do that until two of their teammates are dead, and the killer still has time to get that last survivor because they can't both jump through it at the same time. This is basically the same outcome as any other hatch game unless you get very unlucky- a win, but the last guy got hatch.
Ideally this change would come alongside a sort of soft overhaul of chests so there can be more of them (without screwing over certain killer powers), and separately might run afoul of whatever BHVR have planned for keys in the back half of the roadmap, but with the information we have right now I think it's a solid idea.
Comments
I might be fine with it, if you remove keys as item, so you actually have to find it.
Would be very annoying to deal with rats again who just bring keys.
I don't think rats who bring keys would actually be able to get more than they currently can, honestly.
In the game right now, they'd still be able to bring keys and play like rats. This'd give them a slightly bigger window, sure, but it's still fundamentally the same scenario from the perspective of any other player. From the killer's perspective, one guy played like a rat and got hatch but you killed the others (assuming they don't get sacrificed earlier), from the survivor's perspective one guy was useless.
What it would do is allow players who just want keys to be safeguards and otherwise play completely normally to get a little bit more of a chance at value, which I think is healthy- both because it makes keys more appealing and because if you bring a key you can't bring a toolbox, medkit, or flashlight.
It would, because it would be way easier to do than now and they can take 1 survivor with them (unless killer somehow manages to find the hatch in 20 seconds), so kinda the "effect" of rat in your game would be more annoying
Also thinking about it, why not bring 1 key in every game when we play SWF (2+ players). Suddenly even 3k becomes way more difficult for the killer, which brings as to even worse situation than original keys, where at least gens were requirement for spawn.
I still have too big PTSD from dealing with that…
It wouldn't really be easier, you'd just get to try it earlier. The whole point of the cooldown is to give the killer time to find the last survivor, so you could either lengthen it or give more of an obvious directional cue if 20 seconds doesn't end up being enough in most scenarios.
As for being able to try it earlier, to be blunt, that's what we want. The whole point is to push games that are functionally over to actually end quicker, the same as the anti-hide situation. If the rats or the aggressive SWF are actively running around searching for and opening hatch, they're going to be easier to find, and they can't skulk around looking (presumably) because of the anti-hide stuff being added, so the interaction happens a lot quicker.
3ks wouldn't actually be all that much harder because a SWF can't just easily disappear two people at once. Even if they could, though, that's definitely not worse than old keys where everyone could exit the game early.
I have all the time in the world (well, something under an hour), where killer can't see the hatch at all.
In SWF we will have two survivors looking for it and there are several perks to find it. So you have more time, you can do it earlier and killer can't do much about it.
Either it's vague and in most cases you will have both escapes, or it will be easy to find for the killer and then second survivor will always be forced to play gates (which can be easy, or impossible on some maps)
In both cases, it would create a frustration for either side.
Why do it fast? We have all the time in the world to find it (or just 1 one use perk for it). Even when one get to chase, other survivors can just look for the hatch in advance and at that point at least 1 would be guaranteed unless killer is going to slug…
So you are trying to "fight" slugging for 4k, while it is actually going to be mandatory instead.
Why not? Go into locker when second survivor gets hooked to avoid BBQ and you are fine.
They couldn't do it at 4-5 gens. This would be possible and in both cases only answer is slugging, or just give up to fact survivor/s have free escape for flawed mechanic.
I think you may be losing sight of a few things, here.
Most pressingly, two survivors are already dead in this scenario. This is when BHVR have already said they want to move the match along and don't want things to stall out, so that's your answer for doing it fast- the game is about to get some mechanics that push you not to do it slow.
A 3k wouldn't be all that much harder, again, because of the cooldown on the hatch. Unless the killer's completely clueless on the other side of the map entirely - which certainly could happen but isn't guaranteed - that's a long time to come approach the hatch and get a down.
The major thing to remember is that we're not talking about a game that's just at 4-5 gens. We're talking about a game that's at 4-5 gens and is already over. Functionally, anyway, there's absolutely zero chance in hell that even the best survivors in the world can actually repair those generators with only two players on the board. This change would just give them a fighting chance at not dying, which ensures that the match doesn't stall out, it's become a race for hatch where the survivors have to keep active but the killer can't find the hatch to camp it. It pushes the players together, which is the desirable outcome.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be testing or that adjustments would never be necessary, but I think the core idea functions pretty well.
Same for you…
I would say most killers don't see 2k as a win, many see it as a loss instead. And losing to something outside of your control would bring lot of frustration.
You want to tell me, you find the hatch within 20 seconds in every game? I can see Wraith would have chance for it, but most killers simply can't.
Yeah and it would feel that much worse. You demolished survivors just for them to get 2 free escapes…
Sad thing is your "fighting chance" is better than killer has to kill them both. Without slugging, you would not be getting 4ks.
3ks would be best you get and often not even that (if survivors bring key).
No, it would be almost exactly as bad as previous version.
This would never go live, unless it's actually random and hatch should be revealed only if survivors manage find the key. Otherwise were are back to impossible 4k.
You downed last survivor and you need 4k for whatever reason (ego, challenge, achievement). With your change it's to be expected last survivor knows where it is, because either survivor saw it during chase, or other survivor found it. Which means you have to slug and then hope you didn't down one of those survivors near it.
That sounds very flawed to me.
Like I said, if 20 seconds isn't reliably long enough to find the hatch and prevent the final escape, there are ways of adjusting it. Increase the timer, give an audio cue, hell, teleport the hatch somewhere else— the point is to give the killer time to get the final kill, not that the timer itself has to be exactly how I pitched it there.
It's not two free escapes, for that reason. It's not any free escapes- it's playing for hatch, the way the endgame is supposed to be, it's just that the survivors have a bit more of a head's up. It doesn't stop the killer from being able to get one or both of them, it just pushes the last part of the game to be more active instead of excessive hiding because survivors do actually have a chance at not dying.
You haven't actually won yet with two kills. If it happens early enough on the live servers, you've basically won, but only because your opponent has been locked out of their win condition- you haven't actually achieved yours yet. It's not actually a problem for there to be some chance of that outcome changing.
Yeah, I have no idea how you fail to see what this would cause. Even after telling you…
Key would be an issue, it would be very easy to play for it imo.
But the fact that survivors can find the hatch in advance would be even bigger issue. It's suddenly not "gamble" to play for hatch, when other side gets head start, not really good chance and only answer to it is slugging…