Totem Defense
So I was thinking about totems again and I was thinking what if totems could defend themselves?
I myself love the idea of destroying totems having aftereffects, Survivors don't for some silly reason. So instead WHAT IF while you are cleansing a Totem a new animation plays where the totem has shadowy Entity-like tendrils attacking you the whole time and after you finish cleansing you go down 1 Health State, if you're healthy you're injured you will become Broken for 30 seconds.
This won't stop totems from getting destroyed early on because the ''line of sight check'' is apparently so good at that. But it will make destroying totems come with a cost, like it should. If you want to get rid of Ruin you'll have to make a sacrifice and get hurt.
EDIT: If you get downed or Hooked by the Killer after cleansing the totem you can get an additional Bonus for either Altruism or Boldness so the sacrifice you mad isn't totally depressing. Hey I did good, do I get a treat? Yes? That's nice :) *gets slammed on a hook. If you are in the Injured state and you cleanse a totem you will not enter the Dying state but become Broken for 30 seconds.
It makes NO SENSE why a Killer would make an all powerful totem infused with magic and just hide it in a corner and not have some way to defend it. If it was my MY totem it would Curse the defiler with half the effect the rest of the match, that's fair, that's fair. I can't accept any argument against it being not fair because this is a game and it can be tweaked to make it fair.
So how do you guys feel about totems injuring Survivors upon cleansing? And I do mean Hex Totems not Dull totems, also yes I do play Survivor for those who don't know me at all. This change would be risky yes but it's stupid I can kick a bone altar crippling a Killer and get away with it, Nightmare on Elm Street 3 had a damn reanimated skeleton with claws protecting itself so why can't these?
Comments
Well it is an interesting idea, but anything that would actively harm the survivor would be pretty unbalanced. They'd be placed in the sort of situation you'd see if Trapper was running honing stone. Totems just need to be better placed and maybe have skill checks or the ability to be recreated by the killer.
Turn totems into turrets? :D
Jokes aside yeah they go down pretty fast but that is why I only use Ruin. It is to buy some time.
Lots of survivors still complain about them so you will have a hard time convincing devs to improve them.
@ReikoMori Honing Stone, tht's the one that puts you into Dying if you free yourself I think, well then it's not a problem because you'd go down before even touching the totem, it has nothing to do with the totem.
Even if they had Bloody Coil it would still be the best defense and it's only to help the team not yourself, numbers against a power role. Sure that Survivor would go down but it's for everyone's cause, it's a team game.
I'd like this as a perk with a global cooldown per state inflicted, not as a base piece of totem effect.
@ElusivePukka So you want to buy this ability, you want to spend $7 on a perk to protect totems.
So you this, Ruin, well once Ruin goes down you're down 2 perks, what are your other perks yo I hope they're good.
Instead you can use 2 totems and 2 other perks and have this ability. You don't need to sell yourself short, you can kill people with both hands don't let the Survivors brainwash you.
Remember Haunted Grounds? That was a community suggestion and they turned it into a perk, it's a good perk but instead of finding ways to FIX THE GAME they are selling us the things we want as perks. Mad Grit was their answer to body blocking sold to us for $7 oh you want help for body blocking better make room for that perk boi lol
It's decidedly unbalanced as a base kit concept, kiddo. It's too powerful not to be used - if you had a lesser effect than inflicting a full health state, maybe, but what you've proposed is a theoretical five health states in a game where the team has a finite amount to spare.
If you just mean hex totems, rather than every totem? I mean, maybe, but it's still more damaging to survivors, without any real counterplay. It also makes NOED even more of a problem. I'm a killer main, and I'm telling you: this is not a good idea as you've proposed it.
I make a point of getting my 4Ks without Ruin, thank you.
@ElusivePukka I guess you didn't read the whole thing, yes it's every Hex totem, it wouldn't be right to make Dull totems do that.
You got 4 Survivors, 1 finds Ruin 12 seconds into the match and injures themselves doing it, maybe they sneak away or run off because you're chasing someone, well that's your only totem no problemlem for the Survivors.
Next match you got Ruin and Huntress, well one goes down 10 seconds into the match who cares what it is. Same thing happens and you're chasing someone so that Survivor gets away injured. later on in the match when that other totem is getting annoying, maybe you got 3 Survivors left and one Survivor finds your 2nd totem but is already injured, well they have to choose to find another Survivor to get healed or just break it, they have to choose if it means that much to them. Spoiler, it's a totem so it doesn't mean anything they go the entire match with Huntress or Ruin and they'll escape because they can. If that Survivor does the totem and goes down then you hook that one and you got 2 Survivors on Gens and 1 on the hook. They're a team they'll figure out what to do, hell Trapper has this same momentum with Honing Stone and they still run him around.
Now lets say that Survivor dies on the hook and they do all the Gens, oh crap now you got NOED you sneaky bastard and one goes onto the hook and the other has to decide whether to look for the totem and get injured or just leave, IF THEY CAN FIND THE TOTEM. Now we Killers know that even if that Survivor did break the totem and had a medkit to heal they would STILL go down once they save their friend, fact unless they have Mettle. If they didn't heal when they broke it then why get rid of it in the first place, maybe they have BT and manage to get past you well they go down and the other Survivor gets out, just like the previous scenario.
And you know what, it's a game we can just decide that NOED has no defensive capabilities because it's power is so strong already that the Killer shouldn't be able to protect this totem.
The totems being vulnerable is the direct consequence and intended feature of using hex perks. Complaining about balance by suggesting something unbalanced is evidence of lack of experience, not of a good proposal. Bringing something potentially powerful has a downside in virtually every other case in this game; it's about learning how to play around those downsides rather than sticking to methods that are failing - that adaptability is the difference between many people making Ghostface work while many more are unable to.
That all said, I do agree that there should be better defensive options for totems, but given adequate guarding they don't need a powerful defense without the killer giving something else up. Skill checks, even deep wounds, these are better options than an outright injury: that's just too powerful without being rebalanced against.
There should be more than NOED for end-game kills. There should be more than Haunted Ground for totem defenses. There should be more than Ruin to slow the game down. Overpowered answers to those requests will just make the problem worse.
@ElusivePukka So you're saying my idea is flawed but you're not saying why, I've given a good argument about why my idea is good but you haven't countered but instead side-lined it completely. I am not swayed that my idea is overpowered, if I'm wrong I'm wrong but I'm not seeing anyone counter my idea.
I mean we could come up with an idea together, this thread is about totem defense. Deep Wounds isn't good enough because DW sucks, it'll keep them busy for maybe 16 seconds but once the Killer gets within range it's aboslutely useless, it's why Legion's DW is a joke, it's why BT was buffed.
Edited the idea, instead of entering the Dying State when you are Injured after cleansing a totem you will become Broken for 30 seconds. It keeps you from healing, not that you were doing it before apparently.
I've been saying exactly why: your counter to totem vulnerability was too strong. You failed to address that, and also failed to say exactly why totem vulnerability was a bad thing - it's an in-built weakness, a feature meant to be played around.
The idea of in-built totem defence, without the killer having to sacrifice some other capability, is too strong if it's not just something that slows the game down. Two skill checks, Deep Wounds, maybe killer add-ons for progressive defenses, these are reasonable sacrifices - but injuring someone (or the temporary equivalent in Broken) remains too strong without something the killer gives up. Deep Wounds is almost as bad as Broken, given that both as they're currently implemented still do require injury, but it at least gives the survivor more of a choice and influence over its impact: recentering the sacrifice they make to get the totem.
As things stand: killers must patrol gens, chase survivors, and if they chose to have a hex perk they must choose when to defend it and when to let it fall.
As things stand: survivors must do gens, hide from/loop the killer, and if there's a lit totem they must choose when to sacrifice time on gens and potentially risk the killer's blade in order to deal with it.
With what you propose: things will be too stacked in favour of the killer, allowing them to allot less time toward the intended secondary objective of defending hex totems. Now there'd be benefit to both sides if one breaks, rather than the survivors having gained an edge through the intended vulnerability of hex perks.
@ElusivePukka I get what you're saying, I see it, but that doesn't mean things can't be tweaked to allow this to be a good thing. It would of course require some things in the rest of the game to be minorly tweaked so it might not be worth the effort since it's just for totem defense lol
I despise the design philosophy with this game it doesn't have faith in it's players to adapt and constantly holds hands with Survivors. It should be difficult for Survivors like it can be in some instances and it should be challenging for Killers but not as much as it is sometimes. Some decisions made in this game are ridiculous and feels like an insult to those who play the game, like we can't handle ourselves and we NEED someone to take care of us, that's not fair to the players and makes them spoiled.
@DudeDelicious I personally use Totems as gimmicks, an extra ability for myself, to compliment but not rely on and it does suck that a lot of people rely on them for their game to be successful, it's not a good situation to be in.
I think one of my problems is that I look at problems too realistic and logically which is weird for that to be a bad thing but it's a game so if you think too hard you'll hurt yourself lol
I just hate how the Devs marvelous way to fix totems was the ''line of sight check'' and it did absolutely nothing. I see lots of players where the totem in on the other side of the wall they're next to. Sure it wasn't in their line of sight but it's still right next to them. I made another thread a while ago about other fixes for totems and then they made Haunted Grounds which was a different version of an idea in my thread. They throw us fixes in perks but don't solve the actual problems in the games and it's irritating.
Give the totems a laser gun that instakills anyone that touches it. Including dull totems.
@DudeDelicious So instead of HG having 2 trapped totems it instead makes every other Hex totem Expose Survivors as well if they're cleansed. That would be really cool because sometimes they don't get HG but get Ruin and then no one touches the other Totem, this would mean that even if they get rid of Ruin they're still Exposed. So it would be a lethal Thrill of The Hunt, that's bad ass and though it doesn't fix the totem problem it buffs a perk that already helps with the problem. Not a bad idea.