Hexes

RSB

They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair? They have much stronger perks, and they are not connected to hexes. To balance it you can:

1. Remove hexes from the game and make hex perks a normal perks
2. When survivor destroys a hex totem, one perk from every survivor is removed as well.
3. Connect Self Care, Sprint Burst, Borrowed Time, Dead Hard, Adrenaline, OoO and Decisive Strike to something like hex (something killer can bash and destroy).

Jack11803

But you don’t want a buff to WGLF, because that’s too radical and overpowered compared to this....

RSB

@Jack11803 said:
But you don’t want a buff to WGLF, because that’s too radical and overpowered compared to this....

Are you mad about this WGLF?

Jack11803

@RSB said:

@Jack11803 said:
But you don’t want a buff to WGLF, because that’s too radical and overpowered compared to this....

Are you mad about this WGLF?

No, just saying your priorities are for your benefit exclusively. Also, this would make knockout a WAY WORSE version of third seal.

Jack11803

And third seal would just overly punish solo survivors, who have a stat survival rate of 30%. It would t effect SWF either, so this is a bad idea

RSB

@Jack11803 said:

@RSB said:

@Jack11803 said:
But you don’t want a buff to WGLF, because that’s too radical and overpowered compared to this....

Are you mad about this WGLF?

No, just saying your priorities are for your benefit exclusively. Also, this would make knockout a WAY WORSE version of third seal.

Maybe because you want to buff already overpowered survivors?

Jack11803

@RSB

If you read any of the posts I made you’d know otherwise. I, many times have advocated killer buffs, gave ideas, etc. but simply because I don’t align with your painful bias, I’m automatically a bad guy. No, I don’t want to “buff overpowered survivors” I want to make all perks useful, but in general I think SWF should be nerfed. But if survivors are nerfed, then solo queue would die. I made a solution to this, you can read it under my balance thread.

Mc_Harty

@RSB said:
They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair?

No. Not really. They are only weak because they can be found easily.

Doomsaki

@Mc_Harty said:

@RSB said:
They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair?

No. Not really. They are only weak because they can be found easily.

I've seen suggestions where killers get to place the hex totem. (dull totems are still randomized)

Takes a lot of work out of trying to code proper hidden placement which will inevitably sometimes fail.

RSB

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

If you read any of the posts I made you’d know otherwise. I, many times have advocated killer buffs, gave ideas, etc. but simply because I don’t align with your painful bias, I’m automatically a bad guy. No, I don’t want to “buff overpowered survivors” I want to make all perks useful, but in general I think SWF should be nerfed. But if survivors are nerfed, then solo queue would die. I made a solution to this, you can read it under my balance thread.

Yyyhhh, no, I do not want to read it, I've made a topic about it too. And my painful bias? Nice, you know more about me than I know. I play 50/50, but as you wish.

RSB

@Doomsaki said:

@Mc_Harty said:

@RSB said:
They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair?

No. Not really. They are only weak because they can be found easily.

I've seen suggestions where killers get to place the hex totem. (dull totems are still randomized)

Takes a lot of work out of trying to code proper hidden placement which will inevitably sometimes fail.

At the first look it is a nice concept, but then you will still have one mediocre killer perk which can be destroyed, versus 4 survivors' perks, that are way better and can't be destroyed.

Jack11803

@RSB said:

@Doomsaki said:

@Mc_Harty said:

@RSB said:
They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair?

No. Not really. They are only weak because they can be found easily.

I've seen suggestions where killers get to place the hex totem. (dull totems are still randomized)

Takes a lot of work out of trying to code proper hidden placement which will inevitably sometimes fail.

At the first look it is a nice concept, but then you will still have one mediocre killer perk which can be destroyed, versus 4 survivors' perks, that are way better and can't be destroyed.

Hex perks aren’t mediocre effect wise. Yeah they get destroyed easy, but the actual effect is strong

Jack11803

@RSB said:

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

If you read any of the posts I made you’d know otherwise. I, many times have advocated killer buffs, gave ideas, etc. but simply because I don’t align with your painful bias, I’m automatically a bad guy. No, I don’t want to “buff overpowered survivors” I want to make all perks useful, but in general I think SWF should be nerfed. But if survivors are nerfed, then solo queue would die. I made a solution to this, you can read it under my balance thread.

Yyyhhh, no, I do not want to read it, I've made a topic about it too. And my painful bias? Nice, you know more about me than I know. I play 50/50, but as you wish.

Ill just copy and paste it here then.

Jack11803

@RSB

Survivor balance is in a pickle, no ALL balance is in a pickle right now. Lots of people say looping, camping, etc. are really big problems...but why aren't they being tackled?

Here’s why; SWF. SWF throws balance out the window, not only does it make survivors strong....but the main core problem......now 3 sides need to be balanced, but 2 are tied together. As it currently is,with states including SWF matches saying that survivors survive rate is 50%-ish...that’s really bad. As we know SWF is much stronger than solo, that means, by logic, that SWF has roughly a 70-80% survive rate, while solo has only about 30%.

How do we fix this? Well it’s near impossible. But the only way to fix this would be to make solo survivors have much more communication, and with the 3 sides becoming 2 again, be able to nerf survivors with out making solo queue a death sentence.

The reason why this hasn’t occurred...the developers don’t want to break “immersion”. But I think it needs to happen. We literally can achieve balance unless Solo is the same strength as SWF. That’s the only way to then balance killer vs. survivor.

All in all, immersion shouldn’t cost balance and elbow drop it in the jaw. It’s a price to pay, but survivors that are solo should have a voice chat (SURVIVOR ONLY; NOT PROXIMITY OR HEARABLE BY KILLER LIKE IN F13)

With that, solo would be of similar strength to SWF making solo overpowered just like it. Next killer and survivors could be balanced without making solo queue trash.

As of now, nerfing survivors would make SWF more fair, but solo would be ruined. Buffing solo would make SWF even more broken. So solo must be made of equal strength, so both can be nerfed or buffed without messing up the other.

The developers claim they want a 50% death/survival rate of all games. This is the only way to do it.

If solo continues to be without comms, one part of survival (Solo or SWF) will ALWAYS be unbalanced. A game mode separation would split the player base, and the game wouldn’t be able to handle that, so casual and ranked simply wouldn’t work. This is quite possibly the only way

I know, it’s sad...but it’s too true to deny.

RSB

@Jack11803 said:

@RSB said:

@Doomsaki said:

@Mc_Harty said:

@RSB said:
They are weak, and can be destroyed by survivors. Don't you think it is unfair?

No. Not really. They are only weak because they can be found easily.

I've seen suggestions where killers get to place the hex totem. (dull totems are still randomized)

Takes a lot of work out of trying to code proper hidden placement which will inevitably sometimes fail.

At the first look it is a nice concept, but then you will still have one mediocre killer perk which can be destroyed, versus 4 survivors' perks, that are way better and can't be destroyed.

Hex perks aren’t mediocre effect wise. Yeah they get destroyed easy, but the actual effect is strong

The only "strong" hexes are Ruin and Devour Hope, but they are not strong, because they are destroyed under one minute from the start of the game. NOED is meh, it should not be hex, and the rest perks are just trash, I do not know why they are hexes anyway. With this logic even Bitter Murmur, or Territorial Imperative should be hexes as well.

RSB

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

Survivor balance is in a pickle, no ALL balance is in a pickle right now. Lots of people say looping, camping, etc. are really big problems...but why aren't they being tackled?

Here’s why; SWF. SWF throws balance out the window, not only does it make survivors strong....but the main core problem......now 3 sides need to be balanced, but 2 are tied together. As it currently is,with states including SWF matches saying that survivors survive rate is 50%-ish...that’s really bad. As we know SWF is much stronger than solo, that means, by logic, that SWF has roughly a 70-80% survive rate, while solo has only about 30%.

How do we fix this? Well it’s near impossible. But the only way to fix this would be to make solo survivors have much more communication, and with the 3 sides becoming 2 again, be able to nerf survivors with out making solo queue a death sentence.

The reason why this hasn’t occurred...the developers don’t want to break “immersion”. But I think it needs to happen. We literally can achieve balance unless Solo is the same strength as SWF. That’s the only way to then balance killer vs. survivor.

All in all, immersion shouldn’t cost balance and elbow drop it in the jaw. It’s a price to pay, but survivors that are solo should have a voice chat (SURVIVOR ONLY; NOT PROXIMITY OR HEARABLE BY KILLER LIKE IN F13)

With that, solo would be of similar strength to SWF making solo overpowered just like it. Next killer and survivors could be balanced without making solo queue trash.

As of now, nerfing survivors would make SWF more fair, but solo would be ruined. Buffing solo would make SWF even more broken. So solo must be made of equal strength, so both can be nerfed or buffed without messing up the other.

The developers claim they want a 50% death/survival rate of all games. This is the only way to do it.

If solo continues to be without comms, one part of survival (Solo or SWF) will ALWAYS be unbalanced. A game mode separation would split the player base, and the game wouldn’t be able to handle that, so casual and ranked simply wouldn’t work. This is quite possibly the only way

I know, it’s sad...but it’s too true to deny.

@RSB said:
Everyone knows, that SWF is not fair. Thanks to their coordination and voice chats, they gain the benefits of several aura reading perks, they can coordinate which perks they bring, they can set their roles (gen-rusher, looper), etc.

Dear devs, you know, and I know it. But what can you do? Deleting it would irritate survivors, which would end up in the drop of the playerbase and your earnings, which are important. Without them you cannot develop this game.
So, deleting it would irritate them, nerfing it probably too. So what now?

This is my idea:

Split the game into two gamemodes.

1) 1 versus 4, 5 generators - The same as it is now, BUT without SWF. What does it mean? It means that ONLY solo survivors can join to the lobby of the killer. They cannot be in SWF

2) 2 versus 6, 9 generators - Yes, 2vs6. "Fight fire with fire", as they say. Let the killer play with his friend in KWF mode (Kill With Friend). In this mode, 2 killers join to the first lobby (the same lobby as SWF has), then they click "Ready" and create the proper lobby, where survivors can join. It would be the only lobby where survivors could play in SWF, and it would be OPTIONAL for solo survivors to join this lobby as well (just and option, in Settings, or in the main menu, which enables the solo survivor to play in 2vs6 lobby). Then, you could limit the teammates in SWF to 3, so there would be maximum of 2 teams of SWF in one lobby (but this is optional).

What are your thoughts?

Yes, it is.

Jack11803

@RSB

These are WITHOUT CONSIDERING BEING DESTROYED (which is what I said but you immediately mentioned being destroyed makes them weak... so reading is pretty meh. Devour hope and ruin you said are strong. Third seal makes SWF a bit harder, and solo and instant fresh hell. Lullaby and thrill are actually weak, I can agree on that. NOED is strong, and just like d-strike, both are stupid in concept rewarding failure.

Jack11803

@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

RSB

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

It is one of 2 ways into balancing this game.

Jack11803

@RSB said:

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

It is one of 2 ways into balancing this game.

I mentioned your bias, gonna point out mine for obviously liking my idea more than yours, but here’s my reasoning. Quite simply, if my idea was inplemented, it would fix the problem at the root, he game would only need to be balanced once. And people may even forget SWF as a threat. That’s if it’s executed PERFECTLY “we know it won’t, due to the skill floor being in the depths of hell. Your idea is good, but would cause something similar to removing SWF, in that matchmaking would be hurt, bad. Along with complaints and less money.

Najemniczkas

Jack11803 said:

@RSB said:

@Jack11803 said:
@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

It is one of 2 ways into balancing this game.

I mentioned your bias, gonna point out mine for obviously liking my idea more than yours, but here’s my reasoning. Quite simply, if my idea was inplemented, it would fix the problem at the root, he game would only need to be balanced once. And people may even forget SWF as a threat. That’s if it’s executed PERFECTLY “we know it won’t, due to the skill floor being in the depths of hell. Your idea is good, but would cause something similar to removing SWF, in that matchmaking would be hurt, bad. Along with complaints and less money.

Believe me, not much people are going to use voice chat, especially in Europe. It won't change anything, tbh.
I know this from other games with voice chat. This won't solve anything, most of solo players are still gonna have less chances of surviving, than SWF.

SadonicShadow

@Najemniczkas said:
Jack11803 said:

@RSB said:

 @Jack11803 said:

@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

It is one of 2 ways into balancing this game.

I mentioned your bias, gonna point out mine for obviously liking my idea more than yours, but here’s my reasoning. Quite simply, if my idea was inplemented, it would fix the problem at the root, he game would only need to be balanced once. And people may even forget SWF as a threat. That’s if it’s executed PERFECTLY “we know it won’t, due to the skill floor being in the depths of hell. Your idea is good, but would cause something similar to removing SWF, in that matchmaking would be hurt, bad. Along with complaints and less money.

Believe me, not much people are going to use voice chat, especially in Europe. It won't change anything, tbh.
I know this from other games with voice chat. This won't solve anything, most of solo players are still gonna have less chances of surviving, than SWF.

I disagree with this. It will change everything if solo queues get voice chat. If they decide not to use voice chat then that is on them and them alone.

Najemniczkas

SadonicShadow said:

@Najemniczkas said:
Jack11803 said:

@RSB said:

 @Jack11803 said:

@RSB

Any critiques for my idea?

It is one of 2 ways into balancing this game.

I mentioned your bias, gonna point out mine for obviously liking my idea more than yours, but here’s my reasoning. Quite simply, if my idea was inplemented, it would fix the problem at the root, he game would only need to be balanced once. And people may even forget SWF as a threat. That’s if it’s executed PERFECTLY “we know it won’t, due to the skill floor being in the depths of hell. Your idea is good, but would cause something similar to removing SWF, in that matchmaking would be hurt, bad. Along with complaints and less money.

Believe me, not much people are going to use voice chat, especially in Europe. It won't change anything, tbh.
I know this from other games with voice chat. This won't solve anything, most of solo players are still gonna have less chances of surviving, than SWF.

I disagree with this. It will change everything if solo queues get voice chat. If they decide not to use voice chat then that is on them and them alone.

Not much people are going to be willing to talk, at least in Europe. Language barrier is the issue. I don't think forcing people to talk on voice chat is a good idea...
And with voice chat there might be lot of toxicity. + there are some cases when people can't behave properly and they may scream etc. which would cause people not to hear in-game sounds, unless there would be an option to mute other people.
But if you're in chase, you don't have a chance of muting people. Or if you're in struggle state. Doing gens is also not a time to mute people - you have to hold M1 (or whatever you binded) to do gens after all.

Runiver

I'm all for a hex totems rework. But this is just going too far in the buffs for me.