This PTB Self Care Change Makes No Sense

aarongai

Couple points to make here:

• Everyone already runs Self-Care. Most just run off to heal themselves after taking a hit. This is mostly a Survivor buff to the most used perk in the game
• It makes no logical sense to nerf healing speed for other Survivors when you're smart enough to bind your own wounds. Like, you're well studied enough to figure out how to bandage your own injuries, but that knowledge somehow makes you worse at healing others? Let's just completely throw realism out the window
• Nobody is going to want to get healed by other Survivors. It will become more time efficient to let one guy heal himself and the other work on a generator

Here's an idea:

• Give all Survivors the current -50% Self Care without requiring a perk
• While injured, Survivor repair, heal, cleanse, and sabotage speeds are reduced by 10%
• So it's -60% healing speed for Survivors to heal themselves with no perks
• The perk Self-Care now increases self-healing speed by 100% and item efficiency by 30%
• So it's -30% healing speed for yourself if you run Self Care

Benefits of these changes:

• Preserves the realism of the game (being able to mend your own wounds shouldn't make you slower at healing others)
• Gives Survivors an extra perk slot because probably 90% of players use Self Care anyways, so more build options for Survivors at the price of a longer heal time
• Everyone can heal themselves yes, but it's slower than the live version unless they take Self Care
• Staying injured now makes Survivors slower at completing objectives, so Killers get a nice buff

fluffybunny

I think it would be interesting to have some natural debuffs for when you're injured as a survivor.
I don't like the SC change, tbh. I don't usually run SC (I run bond and iron will instead) and having them be even slower would be kinda annoying. May even put people who don't run the perk into a situation where they need to 'cause no one's healing other people. I don't really think the game needs SC without a perk, though. It's already quite strong, we should be looking at ways to limit it ever so slightly imo.

Zarathos

Honestly applying permanent debuffs for hook states make more sense. Its more realistic considering the entity is wearing away at you slowly devouring you will to live as it manifests. 

From a gameplay perspective it give killers a reason to spread out their hooks vs tunneling a player down. 

JammyJewels

fluffybunny said:

I think it would be interesting to have some natural debuffs for when you're injured as a survivor.
I don't like the SC change, tbh. I don't usually run SC (I run bond and iron will instead) and having them be even slower would be kinda annoying. May even put people who don't run the perk into a situation where they need to 'cause no one's healing other people. I don't really think the game needs SC without a perk, though. It's already quite strong, we should be looking at ways to limit it ever so slightly imo.

I’ve never seen a problem with Self Care. The 50% reduction in speed certainly already slows you down. And it is something to slow the game down and yet it is still seen as overpowered... Of course, but isn’t any perk that lets you perform an item-specific action without that item? Self Care is harmless, I believe it is only complained about by those that want easy downs. I am a high rank survivor and killer, and not once has Self Care seemed OP. Instead it’s always seemed like a good reward for winning a chase, or safely evacuating a hook.

Arroz

Me too, i've never seen a problem with selfcare,.. and another killer buff? this is a asymetrical game.. come on I now it dont make sense repair, sabotage etc at the same speed than healed but this is supposed to be a asymetrical game.. (sorry for my english)

ZCerebrate

PTB Patch said:

Self-Care: All healing action speeds are reduced by 45%/35%/25%. This action speed penalty replaces the previous Self-care penalty (-50% speed) and applies a flat penalty to ALL healing actions.

I'm fairly perplexed by this proposed perk changed as well - I suppose it's an attempt to curb so many people running Self-care but that is a very awkward way to go about it. It actually promotes less altruism of healing another player just because you have it and god forbid someone isn't running the perk. Now you're chasing someone who is refusing to heal you because he has a 25% penalty and it's a waste of their time.

If the goal is to have no one running self-care other than the most selfish of survivors sure... but if they're trying to nerf it then just make the self healing speed even slower to promote people healing one another "when possible" and running things like Empathy, Bond, Leader etc (Perk diversity? In my christian home?)

KiraElijah

Honestly, We’ve been wanting DS changed and they trash leader, trash Prove thyself, and nerf SC? Please work on the biggest problem. Tbh Dwight is going to the dumps

No_Mither_No_Problem

It two Survivors running the new Self Care run into one another, one injured and one healthy, then it will take the exact same amount of time for the healthy one to heal the injured one as for the injured one to heal themselves.

In what goddamn netherrealm does that make any sense?

se05239

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
It two Survivors running the new Self Care run into one another, one injured and one healthy, then it will take the exact same amount of time for the healthy one to heal the injured one as for the injured one to heal themselves.

In what goddamn netherrealm does that make any sense?

And people that's not using Self-Care will be punished by getting slowly healed by fellow survivors..

Lodosslight

@se05239 said:

@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
It two Survivors running the new Self Care run into one another, one injured and one healthy, then it will take the exact same amount of time for the healthy one to heal the injured one as for the injured one to heal themselves.

In what goddamn netherrealm does that make any sense?

And people that's not using Self-Care will be punished by getting slowly healed by fellow survivors..

Ok? how does that make it any different from people that has started the game?

Lodosslight

@aarongai said:
Couple points to make here:

• Everyone already runs Self-Care. Most just run off to heal themselves after taking a hit. This is mostly a Survivor buff to the most used perk in the game
• It makes no logical sense to nerf healing speed for other Survivors when you're smart enough to bind your own wounds. Like, you're well studied enough to figure out how to bandage your own injuries, but that knowledge somehow makes you worse at healing others? Let's just completely throw realism out the window
• Nobody is going to want to get healed by other Survivors. It will become more time efficient to let one guy heal himself and the other work on a generator

Here's an idea:

• Give all Survivors the current -50% Self Care without requiring a perk
• While injured, Survivor repair, heal, cleanse, and sabotage speeds are reduced by 10%
• So it's -60% healing speed for Survivors to heal themselves with no perks
• The perk Self-Care now increases self-healing speed by 100% and item efficiency by 30%
• So it's -30% healing speed for yourself if you run Self Care

Benefits of these changes:

• Preserves the realism of the game
• Gives Survivors an extra perk slot because probably 90% of players use Self Care anyways, so more build options for Survivors at the price of a longer heal time
• Everyone can heal themselves yes, but it's slower than the live version unless they take Self Care
• Staying injured now makes Survivors slower at completing objectives, so Killers get a nice buff

TESTING

ATTENTION
These changes are meant to be tested by the Community on the PTB.
They might not be included in the final release.

Self-Care: All healing action speeds are reduced by 45%/35%/25%. This action speed penalty replaces the previous Self-care penalty (-50% speed) and applies a flat penalty to ALL healing actions.
The Deep Wound timer now starts at 20 seconds (instead of 30 seconds) when an injured survivor is hit by Feral Frenzy. The timer for Feral Frenzy hits on healthy survivors remains at 30 seconds.

Did you not read this part?

slipttees

selfcare vs Thanatophobia, Coulrophobia, Sloopy Butcher rsrs

LCGaster

They aren't changing self care, they will make a new perk with the concept they have now. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense

Mochan

@JammyJewels said:

I’ve never seen a problem with Self Care. The 50% reduction in speed certainly already slows you down. And it is something to slow the game down and yet it is still seen as overpowered... Of course, but isn’t any perk that lets you perform an item-specific action without that item?

Yes, because Saboteur is a super overpowered perk.

Yrutan

@aarongai said:
Here's an idea:

• Give all Survivors the current -50% Self Care without requiring a perk
• While injured, Survivor repair, heal, cleanse, and sabotage speeds are reduced by 10%
• So it's -60% healing speed for Survivors to heal themselves with no perks
• The perk Self-Care now increases self-healing speed by 100% and item efficiency by 30%
• So it's -30% healing speed for yourself if you run Self Care

I agree that the self-healing action should be available by default.

I would be a bit harsher with the numbers. While you could self-heal without Self-Care, it should be a clear inefficient use of your time. I would probably increase the injured penalty and rework a lot of the unused / bad perks to help counter that.

Namely, Resilience, This Is Not Happening and No Mither. Kindred or Empathy could even show your aura to the other survivors while you are being healed, including self-heal.

(The sabotage action should also be a default action and be reworked into something that can be used reliably instead of being a gimmick.)