Hot Take: For the People is useless without Buckle Up

MikaelaWantsYourBoon

I know so much people hates this combo but seriously who used For the People before? Almost nobody. This perk was seen very rarely in trials and it was doing nothing.

Only times i used it for help my teammates who gets tunnelling. But even in this case, it was pretty meh. You used perk and then killer just m1'ed and all value is just gone. And plus, now you are broken and you are easy target too.

If killer is slugging survivors, there is better perks to counter it. Unbreakable and WGLF. For the People was rare perk for a reason. It never had good use in any case and it gave good value very rarely.

Let say, BHVR changed these perks and now they are not working together. So who will use For the People again? or Buckle Up? Nobody. Because both perks are bad when you use them alone. They shine only when you use them together.

And it's not like there is no counter. It's pretty much has some counter of BT. We count and hit. And it's not free perk, survivor is using 2 perk slots for this combo and they are giving health state for use.

Edit:

I am not saying this combo should stay as it is. I am fine if they nerf this perks won't work together. But this will bring us to back where Buckle Up and FtP never used in trials because both of perks are weak when you use them alone. So all i am asking is that: If we are gonna nerf this combo, both perks should take a bit buff for make them viable.

Xendritch

For The People wasn't bad before it was actually quite decent, it just had a lot of risk, someone is a lot less likely to save a teammate if it might result in them going down instead as opposed to what we have now where you can do it for free with very little risk.

It's low usage before had more to do with people not really caring about randoms than anything regarding it's power level, even in the worst case forcing the pick up on you if you're on zero or one hooks and someone is on death hook is still quite strong in terms of keeping your team in the game.

Nos37

I don't like running For the People if the other survivors either won't hold still to let me insta-heal them or don't heal me after I'm no longer broken so I can use For the People again.

I don't like running Resilience if the other survivors desparately gesture me until I let them heal me back to full.

This is why I enjoy running both perks together. If they insist on healing me up I get For the People back. If they don't, or they dodge my insta-heal, I go sit on a gen with more repair speed.

Then throw in Vigil to reduce the broken duration and an exhaustion perk to go with Vigil.

zarr

I'd disagree. For The People can be used perfectly well in various situations to good value. After unhooking to combat someone being tunnelled, to quickly pick up a slug, even in chase if you get the survivor to die behind a pallet or window. We're Gonna Live Forever and Soul Guard also exist.

I don't think the Buckle Up + FTP combo is as busted as people make it out to be, not seldomly it will just be more or less the same as taking a hit for the survivor, but it definitely has situations where it is busted. And it doesn't really have counterplay. Save The Best For Last helps, at least.

I think both Buckle Up and FTP will be perfectly fine if they just remove their synergy with each other. If there could be buffs, it's perhaps reducing the Broken timer on FTP.

bjorksnas

Then make it a more interesting perk

random idea what if the perk also worked like second wind but with a longer broken duration

For the people

While healing another survivor press the active ability button to instantly transfer a single health state to the other survivor and this perk becomes active, while this perk is active you become broken until the perk deactivates, after 140/130/120s you are automatically healed 1 health state and the perk deactivates, being put into the dying state deactivates the perk.

And if thats too much take your pick of can only be used once per match, once per hook state, once until the exit gates are powered ect

interesting risk reward healing perk

Krazzik

For the People on it's own has always been strong. It has the potential to allow for some huge plays, but it's one of those perks that kinda requires you to be in a group with survivors who know you have it, and know where to go down etc. In solo queue it's way harder to be able to do that.

With Buckle Up it does allow you to actually get more reliable value out of it in solo play, which is nice, though I do think the pairing is way too oppressive and too easily puts the killer in a lose-lose situation.

If the killer wastes a bunch of time in chase and finally downs someone, only for a survivor to run in and use FTP before the killer's attack cooldown even finishes, what is the killer supposed to do? They can't attack either of them without hitting Endurance and giving them a speed boost. The killer hasn't misplayed in that situation but still gets harshly punished in a way that can completely decide a close game. It's just unfair and often uncounterable.

ratcoffee

@UndeddJester said:

I actually agree FTP is a pretty bad perk without Buckle Up.

For a while I kept saying FTP needs to be a health state transfer instead of "healing" for the purpose of perk interactions... before realising that totally kills the perk.

It seems like one of those perks that would always be bordering useless/overpowered. If you allow "healing" interactions, you have to factor it is for every healing based perk you ever create... if you don't, the loss of a health state isn't really worth it except for very niche scenarios that won't be common enough to bother taking.

If we go ahead with the health transfer instead of healing idea to prevent potentially broken perk interactions, it needs something else to make FTP viable.

A nutty idea I read the other day (I don't remember where) was to allow survivors to trade hook states. The idea suggested only allowing a survivor to transfer a hook state either way 1 time, so once you've taken or given a hook state, that's it, you can't do it again. This means a SWF for example could only do it 2 times as a team, which makes sense as otherwise it'd be busted AF.

It could be given to FTP, so if you go to a survivor on hook, you can use FTP to transfer a hook state to help prevent tunneling. The killer would see the sacrifice progress change if they pay attention, so they now know to go for the survivor who unhooked, so smart killers wouldn't be fooled by it.

However that doesn't mean the FTP player has to unhook, so if you can successfully hide who it was who sacrificed the hook state that has potential... and between being able to clutch anti-slug, and clutch anti-tunnel, that might see FTP be a perk that has enough potential to make its way into some builds.

That was my thread I think 😁

That would be a cool idea for a rework if the combo continues to be problematic

jmwjmw27

FTP is still okay in a SWF - I use it frequently when playing with friends who have much less hours and get tunneled often. Trying to use it on someone who doesn't know you have it though can be infuriating when they don't hold still. This perk is one of many that would be better if BHVR let you see your teammate's perks either in the lobby or during the loading screen.

Akumakaji

@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590548#Comment_3590548

No, it's not fine to kill perks. At least they need to be viable.

Like there is zero reason to use For the People if you don't have Buckle Up. This just shows For the People needs buff if we are gonna nerf this combo. But you are free to disagree, i am not gonna try to change your mind.

I feel bad everytime I see a killer running Ruin these days and just assume that they returned after a long hiatus and just had it in their loadouts from back then.

The loss of Ruin was a sad one, but ultimately inconsequential, because there are still other viable perks left.

People are always so quick to label something "useless", "utterly worthless" or "night inviable" if it doesn't make the cut for the big 6 or 7 most strongest or even broken perks or combos. The game actually has a lot of viable perks, but most people are chained forever to the meta and can't fathom moving outside of it.

While the desire to play with the strongest toys is relatable, this is ultimately a crutch, much like tunneling, that inflates your MMR beyond your natural limits. It good practise to sometimes try something new and abandon the meta and just play something you never fathomed. Some Killers and survivors can do fine perkless, so playing with one or two non-meta perks won't hurt, but broaden your horizon.

FTP was a niche perk before the obscene combo with Buckle Up, and Buckle Up was never played because it was a straight D tier perk with nearly zero impact, but there should be other ways to employ this perks instead of just existing in this unhealthy combo.

Eruption in its late form had to go for similar reasons and I don't mourn its passing. The new Eruption is way less impactful and niche, but it's far from "utterly useless" and you can build around it. Especially since its not met anymore and no-one expects it.

WorthlessBeing

Never thought to use both together. Usually I just run FtP to instant heal someone and heal myself with Inner Healing since I'm a totem hunter.

Will definitely try it.