Exhaustion perk suggestions
Changes
Sprint Burst (added)
- Cannot be activated until having walked for 3 seconds straight
- Stops being activatable if the user stops walking
Lithe (rework)
- Press the active ability button while running near a vault location to immediately perform a running vault over it
- Causes exhaustion for 40 seconds, cannot be used while exhausted
Overcome (rework)
- When the killer misses an attack on you, move at 150% movement speed for 3 seconds (would obviously require a lot of work to program and shouldn't be activated against dumb stuff)
- Causes exhaustion for 40 seconds, cannot be used while exhausted
Dead Hard (added)
- Immediately enter the dying state if Dead Hard doesn't successfully protect the user from damage
- The killer is notified while chasing a survivor with Dead Hard active
- No longer requires being unhooked or unhooking yourself to activate
- Zombies and Guards will no longer hit a survivor while they use Dead Hard
Notes
Sprint Burst:
Currently is the definition of "free," more than dh ever was. Insanely powerful effect with basically zero prerequisit and is even strong when not 99d, and even then, it's not that hard to 99. It can be 99d easily while on a gen solo or with someone else, and is beyond powerful when used that way. Purpose of this change is to just add SOME prerequisit to using it. Having to walk before using it would basically prevent it from being able to give you mega distance for free, but would still be very useful while mindgaming a killer around a tall loop or stealthing. Basically in situations where you would walk anyways.
Lithe:
The perk I personally find most annoying out of any of these. Although technically having a prerequisit, it's pretty meaningless realistically speaking. Literally any survivor can get a fast vault off, and then subsequently get the insane value that Lithe provides. With this rework the perk would still have no prerequisit, but have a MUCH more reasonable effect that wouldn't make or break a chase as often as it does now and is something that I'd personally find really fun and at the very least would want to see on some perk in the future.
Overcome:
I don't even know how this perk exists tbh. Most hold W perk in the game, just why? A perk like this really just shouldn't exist, and although there's situations where it won't work, they are not at all the usual. This rework is probably unrealistic for it to be implemented, as stuff like killers using their powers to break a pallet, trickster missing as little as one knives out of a flurry of knives, plague infecting the environment, dredge breaking a lock, etc obviously shouldn't activate it. Imo, it would activate if no part of the whole attack affected the user, another survivor, or the environment, and would start when the killer enters their attack cooldown. So in the case of trickster for example, he would have to throw at least one knife and have none of them hit you, and then exit the throw state for it to activate. I'm sure this sounds really out there but imo it would makes more sense if there was a better standard for what counts as an attack and a missed attack and whatnot since it would just be cool to implement into some perks and whatnot even if it's not necessarily this. This version of the perk might still be annoying but would be very fair and very practical to play around.
Dead Hard:
This perk has problems, and this perk has non problems. DH against certain killers and at pallets is a problem. DH in the open at close range is not. Point of these changes is to make it very worth it to bait DH out, and would give it counterplay in said form where there currently is none. The killer being notified of the perk would also help plenty, as without it it could still be very obnoxious not knowing whether or not to miss an attack on purpose to bait out DH, and is something I personally wouldn't mind as a survivor could still get lucky timing it even if the killer knows they have it. My thoughts on DH have previously been further explained here: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/373516/tl-dr-for-previous-dh-post
Inb4 someone comments "they're fine as is" and anything I said apparently becomes meaningless 👍
Comments
But it's not required. I am never using fearmonger when playing killer, because it's value is just not enough. Because exhaustion perks are not valuable enough to play around. There are far move valuable perks on killer side then to just remove all survivor exhaustion perks.
OTR+tunnel and corrupt+endgame are IMO offtopic so I am not even going there. (but for short - OTR+tunnel don't work because u can disable it during unhook (making it not work as antitunnel perk if killer is hard tunneling) and corrupt is early-state perk doing it's job very well and it doesn't need to work endgame - it helps in never getting to endgame. But I don't really see connection of those 2 perks with current thread).
You're going between saying these perks are necessary and that they're not that good lol. + Fearmonger required *to counter the perks*, to be clear. ++ Obviously there are more valuable killer perks but that simply doesn't prove anything... exhaustion perks are still insanely powerful, doesn't mean a perk like fearmonger which isn't guaranteed to do anything and won't come at all close to fully countering the perks (walking for 5s mid chase can happen), is at all preferable to a strong slowdown.
Nah. You misunderstood. Fearmonger is not required. You can play around exhaustion perks fine enough, that it's not a big deal. They are required on survivor side to get away from deadzone. But it's not required on killer side to turn them off, because there are other perk options that provide higher value then just turning off those perks (because you can "turn them off" by forcing the usage).
So taking what you wrote - killer already has stronger perks then exhaustion (I agree there, I wrote so myself) - but survivor exhaustion perk even if they are stronger just need to be adjusted, because they are OP? Going by this argument alone - everything that has higher usage rate then fearmonger is then also clearly OP on killer side and needs nerf (hint - they do not. Exhaustion perks are in fact fine and don't need adjustments).
I didn't say killer has stronger perks than exhaustion bc you can't compare surv and killer perks like that imo. I said killer has stronger perks than fearmonger which shouldn't mean anything really, shattered hope and stridor were also very meh despite countering coh and iron will. Bringing a perk specifically to counter surv perks that might not even be there in a way that isn't flawless just generally isn't worth it when you have 1/4th as many perk slots
Fearmonger will virtually always provide SOME value.
1, some exhaustion perk is almost always in game (for this purposes, even Iron will counts)
2, it also blocks auras - so perks like saboteur or fogwise or dark sense or ....
But that's not the point. Point is, that you don't need it. But if you can't stand exhaustion perks, then you have perk to negate it (same as lightborn for flashlights and franklin's for medkits). But if you are good, you will not mind at most extra 6m (that can be even played around sometimes).
Any killer that doesn't have some insane mobility will ABSOLUTELY mind, already been over how impactful that 6m is, a minimum of 7 extra seconds in chase and a maximum of who even knows, that's just bonkers
Sure. So impactful, that I don't need the perk and still win most of my games? Well. What can I say here... Maybe I create pressure and don't have 3 other people each on their own gen so it's not 21s of gen-time for me...
I like that your ideas of reworking brings more variety in playstyle. For now half of exhaustion perks activates movement speed boost when particular condition is met (If you vaulted, if you sprinted, if you stunned with pallet, if you landed from height).
I have few questions though. I am not sure that Sprint burst "3sec walk" condition will change much. Most of survivors walk in front of the Killer letting him to come as close as possible anyways. And then they sprint. It gives the most value out of the perk. Also players will soon calculate what percentage they need instead of 99 to make it work as 99, don't they? Maybe I didn't understand to concept because I rarely use Sprint Burst by myself.
Lithe. Do you suggest removing movement speed bonus after vaulting? But instead giving survivor the ability to fast vault from any angle? Because reading your rework I have a feeling that it is the ability to vault with "Ability Button" instead of space and get exhausted as a bonus :D
Overcome. Good overall idea about "Missed hits" detection. I agree that it can bring some new interesting mechanics. But having exhaustion perk with this condition looks very risky. Not sure people would play this because you have to get really bad killer (speaking about quick/lunge attacks) or to be very lucky by spinning.
Dead Hard. Never seemed to be a problem for me when I played killer.
Imo using sb for that is not very strong, since the distance you make with sb is offset by the time you were walking maybe unless you baited the killer into attacking. Sb is strongest imo when you literally just hold W and make the killer take much longer to catch up than normal without any fancy stuff.
Yes, lithe would have the speed boost removed. Fast vautling a window from any angle is still valuable especially when being able to choose when it happens so it doesn't end up getting wasted.
Dh believe it or not I think is one of the most overrated perks but against like huntress or demo who's attacks you can just react to it's totally unfair. The intended use of the perk was to predict when the killer would attack instead of just reacting
21s total time bought regardless, even if it's spent on heals and whatnot
No, what I'm saying is that they said people wouldn't complain about other exhaustion, and lo and behold they did, and you're now saying that they won't complain about everything else, just like the people who complained about dead hard
I'm not saying that? I'm well aware that this community will complain about anything and everything