No, increasing survivors' objective time would not decrease tunneling! (and that's fine)

ratcoffee

A lot of people argue that the only reason killers tunnel is that survivors complete objectives too fast. In this argument, tunneling is the most effective strategy a killer can employ, and the only one powerful enough to allow killers to win games against (whatever tools are allowing survivors to finish gens so quickly). If only survivors had to spend more time working on objectives before the game ends, the argument goes, then killers wouldn't use the strategy.

Here's the problem, though. If all you change is how fast survivors do generators, and you aren't changing how effective tunneling is, tunneling is still the most effective strategy and killers who want to win will still tunnel. In fact, increasing gen speed makes tunneling more effective.It can basically boil down to the following:

Expectation: "As a killer player, now that the gen speed is nerfed, I don't have to worry about gen rushers so much. I'll take my time chasing all the different survivors."

Reality: "As a killer player, I want to win. Now that the gen speed is nerfed, I have even more time to tunnel one player out of the game and make it a 1v3."

I personally enjoy getting tunneled most of the time (chases are fun) but it absolutely baffles me why someone would argue that making gens take longer would reduce tunneling when it makes the strategy even more effective.

Blueberry

@BougieBlackChick said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378476#Comment_3378476

You’ve likely never seen all the killer posts on here that fully admit that tunneling is the easiest way to win because it makes the game a 3v1 immediately.

I didn't read what I wrote. I never said people didn't agree that tunneling is the easiest way to win. That doesn't run contradictory to my point.

Shroompy

@Caiman said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378876#Comment_3378876

A minute and a half at base. Account for toolboxes, Brand New Parts, and perks.

Let's say it takes the killer roughly 30 seconds to find a survivor from the start of the match, if they're lucky, or 1 minute if they're not. They then chase that survivor for 2 minutes because there's pallets and loops everywhere ready to go so getting a quick and easy down isn't feasible outside of severe survivor error. 3 generators are lost in this time.

If that's over-committing, then I'll admit I have no idea how killer is supposed to be played. But however it is supposed to be played, it doesn't sound fun to me.

I mean yeah, thats over commiting

Your job at the beginning of the match is to rid as many resources as possible to make the mid and late game more bearable. Sure you can chase 1 Survivor for 2 minutes to have the same effect but you dont have that natural slowdown youd usually get from jumping between them.

To me going from chase to chase is fun, and usually is pretty fun for Survivors as well as they get multiple chances at a chase.

sulaiman

@Blueberry said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378815#Comment_3378815

"but most killers will always try to get the 4k, and thus, tunnel."

I disagree. Just because they want a 4k doesn't mean they're always going to tunnel.

"Lets say you can get a 2k easily without tunneling (which i think is the state of the game actually). Them people would still tunnel to get the 4k."

You are only getting a 2k "easily" in the current state of the game if you're going against potatoes at low mmr or you're tunneling. I want the game balanced around a 2k without tunneling and playing fairly against equally skilled high mmr swf.

"So making tunneling not necessary for a 4k means killers get the 4k anyway. Why should survivors play at that point?"

No, it does not. If you made the changes I talked about I would also want more measures in place to make tunneling way, way harder and less efficient to do. Your statement is very hyperbolic.

But thats the point right there. you want it balanced for killers for skilled swf. But swf still have a huge advantage over solo survivors, and that means throwing solo survivors under the bus, because even with the hud, they cant compete with the level of coordination and information swf have.

The only resolution for that is to part solo and swf queue, and balance them both seperatly. But they wont do that.

Blueberry

@sulaiman said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379254#Comment_3379254

But thats the point right there. you want it balanced for killers for skilled swf. But swf still have a huge advantage over solo survivors, and that means throwing solo survivors under the bus, because even with the hud, they cant compete with the level of coordination and information swf have.

The only resolution for that is to part solo and swf queue, and balance them both seperatly. But they wont do that.

"that means throwing solo survivors under the bus"

Which is essentially what you're wanting for killers when they vs skilled swf then, to get thrown under the bus. Games are better balanced top down, not bottom up. When it's top down those bad survivors can change their outcome by improving at the game, but if you balance bottom up the people at the top have literally nothing they can do. One balance strategy gives everyone agency, one does not. Players always need agency.

AverageKateMain

@Chomperka said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378927#Comment_3378927

Maybe, not a problem for me to admit it, but why game continue to put me against them? How can you explain that?

Is that even a question? If you've been around since early DBD, then you'd know matchmaking is always an issue and every attempt to remedy it does nothing except make it worse. You're getting these unfun matched because of the nature of how matchmaking is. MMR is the most ineffective thing considering how easy it is to inflate your MMR to be in higher level lobbies

sulaiman

@Blueberry said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380343#Comment_3380343

"that means throwing solo survivors under the bus"

Which is essentially what you're wanting for killers when they vs skilled swf then, to get thrown under the bus. Games are better balanced top down, not bottom up. When it's top down those bad survivors can change their outcome by improving at the game, but if you balance bottom up the people at the top have literally nothing they can do. One balance strategy gives everyone agency, one does not. Players always need agency.

The thing is, that solo survior cannot improve to a level of swf with total information and reliability, even if the information part could be given by the devs, the reliability-part can´t. Thats why it would just kill off solo survivors.

And just to be clear, while i was a survivor main for years, i played both roles, and have become a true 50/50 Player, so i win AND lose either way.

But still i think seperating solo and swf is the only way to do it.

Blueberry

@sulaiman said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3380351#Comment_3380351

The thing is, that solo survior cannot improve to a level of swf with total information and reliability, even if the information part could be given by the devs, the reliability-part can´t. Thats why it would just kill off solo survivors.

And just to be clear, while i was a survivor main for years, i played both roles, and have become a true 50/50 Player, so i win AND lose either way.

But still i think seperating solo and swf is the only way to do it.

I don't think they need to improve a swf level to compete. The actually don’t think it would kill solo queue off.

I still would rather them be separated as well though. Swf in casual mode and solo in ranked.