Nurse Nerf Concept
Everyone knows that nurse is really problematic. Most perks need to be weaker for other killers, because nurse can benefit from them even more which isn't healthy.
- Make Blink attacks Special like it used to be. I dont get why it is not in game anymore. It would fix a lot of problems with her stupid power. Sloppy buther, Exposed status effect... Bye bye
- After being stunned you lose all blink charges. It would make pallets at least a little more useful and Decisive strike actually work. Right now after ds u are instantly put into dying state because 3s distance is nothing for nurse.
Things listed above needs to be done. Now here is list or thing i thought off and i dont know if they are that important or good. Think of them more lightly.
- Make Plaid Flannel addon effect visible for survivours. if u dont know what it does: It gives nurse ability to see where she will blink. By giving survivours ability to see where she teleports will give them something to work with. I dont think it will affect nurse that much.
- While charging blink nurse suffers from slowed camera movement like piramid head or deathslinger. It could be reduced by addons maybe.
- While being burned by a flashlight u slowly lose charges no matter if you are charging blink or not. (idk tbh)
Comments
I don't see how sloppy butcher or jolt are an issue on nurse? Would you rather have nurse run call of brine eruption as well? I stand fully behind making blinks not work with exposed... But I think perks like sloppy or jolt are far less annoying to go against than others, so maybe only change exposed.
I mean... Even if you remove all of her charges and wait 6 seconds... you will just die 6 seconds later as she can follow you and loose only less than 1m during that time... So you end up being 13 m instead of 12 m away from her when she can blink again... I would rather extend DS to 5 seconds again if it was only for that reason, but with the pallets it is fine I think.
I don't like the plaid flannel idea, since you already somewhat know where her blink will go to, because of how long she charged her blink and where she was looking... The issue is this might make people believe that the spot she is currently aiming at is safe, while she can just flick last second and then you once again have little time to account for that... Also it would do nothing for the second blink because the time is too little to react to it then, even if you see it.
The camera movement thing sounds really annoying... It would not even make her necessarily weaker, but only mess with muscle memory and the ability to flick... Huntress does not have that thing either, and I find it rather annoying on pyramid head and slinger as well... That just seems like an anti-quality of life change... and with the addons it resembles overheat... Introducse an unnecessary mechanic and make it less annoying by addons because you don't have any good addon ideas anyway and need to fill the slots...
The last change would just drain flashlights super fast and I don't think it has much of a value anyway... Currently using flashights against nurse has some pretty hard requirements and you need to be really good at it to make it work... Especially effective wise... So I don't really know what to think about that one... But I'm not very fond of the idea...
the first 2 yes, the last 3 definitely not.
a change i suggest is nurse not seeing auras while actively charging blinks, just so you can always 50/50 vs nurse and not have the risk of her having wallhacks completely negating any and all counterplay
I understand the intent, but it might just lead to 4 slowdown perks when you cannot use aura reading effectively anymore...
aura perks would not be useless on nurse, you would see the aura until pressing m2, still more info than not running them. its just yknow, having counterplay is important to survivors isnt it? and nurse running slowdown is much less of a deal than her getting downs in under 20 seconds. like would you rather spend 10 more seconds on a gen with a living teammate or 10 seconds less down a teammate?
Nice ideas but they don’t fix the core issues of her power. Only a full rework could tbh
If you look at most builds that are currently in the meta they really don't use aura reading oder tracking perks in general a lot... Also things like BBQ without double range are really not that big of a deal... If you go against a nurse that drags out the game to 15-20 minutes because of deadlock eruption call of brine corrupt intervention you would wish the game to end earlier xD But sure you do you ^^
And then Spirit will be the next too strong killer, even with yellow addons she will trash almost everyone if the spirit players knows what he is doing, and she is even easier than nurse...
I think currently Nurse has a form of unique counterplay that is breaking line of sight making some structures stronger that are useless against most killers, and I like that and would like to preserve it as much as possible... The problem over all with really strong killers is that when someone has actually mastered that killer he will just roll over people in normal matchmaking.. No matter if it is Artist or Spirit or Blight or Nurse... And I would rather have it be Nurse, where I have a unique form of counterplay than Artist where I just hold W....
What form of rework would you even want? I don't see a good way to change her power and if we give her a completely new power we could as well just make a new killer...
Also elaborate further on what you think are the core issues? Because I thought it is mostly about range addons and exposed perks... And the huge difference strenght wise between the worst and the best killer.
Make her Blinks dependent on 'breath' a resource collected like the Oni.
But then you would need to make her blink more powerful than it currently is... Because Oni's power is probably more powerfull then Nurses Blink in way... Because you cannot just make her 3.85 m/s in her power then... It would slow her down from 4.6m/s even when using blinks to traverse the map and that would be terrible... I mean sure we could work with that... But do we really want a stronger version of Nurses Power? If we just keep it as it is currently and make it like Oni's power she would be more in the middle Tierlist wise... But her power would still be the same thing.. And unless you guys are only annoyed because Nurse wrecks everyone then this does not really solve the issue of not enough counterplay... I would like to remind you that before Spirit got her change and many people for some reason assumed she would be bad now, even though she is probably still as strong as before but more brainless with some addons.. Spirit was one of the most hated killers because there was no real counterplay... Now she has some things you can do but a master spirit will still whipe the floor with average players in normal matchmaking... So do you want to tune down spirit after nurse?
The problem is I don’t see a way to make her current “phase through all objects to get a hit” power work. Only real way would be to lock it behind a charge up like plague or Oni.
Her unique counterplay is entirely map dependent as well. Get shelter woods or blood lodge and you’re #########
Nurse’s power is the only one that actually breaks fundamental game elements. Even at that she requires less skill than killers like blight to reach the skill ceiling
I'd rather 4 slowdown perks as apposed to 4 aura reading perks and the game is over in 120 seconds with no chance of winning. 😁
But on RPD and Lerys she is kinda ######### so... I mean yeah there are some maps where there is not much you can do about her... But then again when you get a Ghostface or a Myers in Lerys there is also not much you can do in that case... If you get no indication that you're about to get attacked you will just get hit... I would love to have some higher tiles on those map to be able to properly play against her...
I would not even go as far to say it breaks game elements... Some things work against some killers and not against others, Pyramid Head can hit you through walls, Legion is guaranteed to get at least on hit on you unless for some reason he looses the legion chicken game that badly... But it is kind of a change that for example edge map is really good against her and worthless against anybody else... So I think to some degree yes she ignores game mechanics, but then again she gives you something else to work with... At least most maps have high tiles you can work with... I think her power is far less annoying than plagues to be honest, but that might be personal preference... Spirits requires even less to perform well and is not map dependant at all, meanwhile poor billy the hardest killer in the game is like below average xD
For me it is the opposite... I'd rather have the game be over sooner instead of a 20 minute slugfest... That's why I hate going against legion... Those games just take forever and you're not doing much besides doing gens and mending...
At least with the long game you will pip and get bloodpoints and experience
"- Make Blink attacks Special like it used to be." Uh... what? They were never Special. Due to a bug, Old MoM considered them to be special, but that was a bug. If you want to know WHY they're basic, I'll gladly explain because I've asked the devs and was given detailed explanation as to why.
"After being stunned you lose all blink charges." I don't think this is as impactful as people think. Okay, you DS'd the Nurse. AWESOME! It's still 3 seconds. Oh, but she's slower? She's 0.15m/s slower. Unless you're on Lery's or something that can break LoS immediately, she's going to get a blink back, and you'll die. She won't even need to wait for a second one.
"Make Plaid Flannel addon effect visible for survivors." I don't like this. If she herself cannot see it, why should survivors? But let's ignore that. The entire counterplay (besides breaking LoS) to Nurse relies on predicting if she'll commit to a far blink or cut it short. I don't like the idea of physically seeing it, just like you wouldn't see the arc of a Huntress hatchet.
" While charging blink nurse suffers from slowed camera movement like piramid head or deathslinger." That sounds awful to play. It wouldn't even be much of a nerf. It'd just feel terrible.
"While being burned by a flashlight u slowly lose charges no matter if you are charging blink or not." The counterplay to killers should not be dependent on an item. Likewise, an item shouldn't harm a killer that severely.
Why would I ever care about bloodpoints? ^^ I have everything I need on every killer and survivor... It is almost bothersome to have to spend bp... The same goes for pips Why would I care? All I get out of pipping is more bp at the end of the month? xD As for the experience yeah sure that's something but mostly the Nurse with 4 slowdown perks will give up on chase if it doesn't go their way fast ... So not even chases are guaranteed...
Seems interesting, why are they basic attacks? Because Nurse basically cannot hit people when chasing normally?
It's one of the reasons, yes, but not the only reason.
First off, there are three types of attacks: Basic, Sub-Basic, and Special. Sub-Basic attacks are Basic attacks with additional/modified properties, while Special Attacks are completely unique and tailored made for the individual killer. Perks only acknowledge Basic and Special attacks.
Nurse's attack is a sub-basic attack. Uniquely, she also predates the actual perk distinction of basic/special attacks for perks, so she's an example of an attack being retroactively categorized. Thought that was worth mentioning.
Now, what makes her attack unique? Almost nothing. The attack itself almost completely emulates a standard basic attack except in two areas I can find. 1. during the calculation formula, she's 3.85 instead of 4.6. 2. Her modifier is 1.6 instead of 1.5. This means, her lunge speed is calculated as 3.85 x 1.6, for a lunge speed of 6.16m/s. So her unique property is her lunge is shorter and slower. Otherwise, completely normal attack. That's reason 1: Very little difference between it and a basic attack.
Reason 2: If you say, "any difference means it's not basic" then we'd need to say Myers' T3 lunge is special because his lunge is longer. A better example is Slinger who inflicts Deep Wound as well. This opens up the can of worms of "what is/isn't a basic attack?" Sub-Basic attacks are on the line and it gets hard to categorize them. Legion's Frenzy and Pig's ambush, for example, are sub-basic attacks and were once Basic Attacks because of it. But as you can see with Nurse/Slinger, not all Sub-Basic attacks are special.
Reason 3: What you mentioned. She's slow. She physically cannot chase normally. You don't see Basic attack perks on Huntress, true, but she has the choice. Nurse does not. She is the only killer that is entirely reliant on their power to land hits.
I'll do you one better and now I'll source it! This is from McLean, who was one of the dev's behind Nurse's creation on the subject when I asked him.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BreakableCharmingSmoothieMVGame-JcPXoLCSXDvC8XtuThanks buddy, that's interesting... I thought the lunge range and speed was basically the same for every killer? (except myers in t1 or t3?)
For the 3rd reason I would not want to rob nurse of using perks that rely on basic attacks in general but only exposed because I think they are the major issue... Otherwise you would kind of limit her in the perks she can use more than necessarily needed ^^
Yes and no.
Okay, Lunge speed was formerly calculated as base speed x 1.5. This resulted in Nurse and 4.4 killers getting a shorter lunge.
This was adjusted. When you do a default lunge, every killer becomes 4.6 for the duration of their lunge so they all have the same range. If you're faster than 4.6, then that value is multiplied by 1.5. That's why Wraith has an extended lunge; he's temporarily moving at 6.9 after uncloaking, so it's 6.9 x 1.5 for 10.35m/s.
Nurse's normal lunge follows this rule as well. Her blink attacks, however, do not. They have the same range/speed now as they did in 2016.
Myers is a weird case. A lunge works in 3 phases, opening, speed burst, and closing. The duration of these phases are 0.1, 0.3, and 0.1 seconds respectively. In T1, the speed burst portion is removed entirely, so you only get the opening/closing phases (the same as tapping M1). T3 extends the speed burst to 0.4 seconds.
Personally, I don't care for Exposed. I care for Starstruck specifically.
My idea that's gained some traction? Make her TR small, say, 16m, but give her a 40m Lullaby. You can even make the lullaby directional, similar to Sadako/Trickster.
Yeah but the issue is that every perk that cuts down her chase time gives her too much of an advantage... She already can get hits really fast but cutting it down by 50% with exposed is just too much... I agree that starstruck is the most commonly used one but devour hope or haunted grounds give her something similiar...
The issue is even if we make the terror radius smaller, with agitation she is back at 28 m and distressing makes this around 35 m... So she might use another perk slot for that but get basically a very similiar result... But I like the concept... I didn't think of that one before :D But for simplicity reasons I would prefer exposed just not to work on her blink attacks...
It can work, you just need to loop properly. Double back, spin around, strafe, etc.
This community (don't "both sides" or "Killer main" me) frequently gets upset when they can't run around a pallet or shift+w, and it continues to show.
Hens did a tutorial on what to do against nurse:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMlBH9t6ARwSo maybe there is something in there that helps people.
I definitely wouldn't use them anymore if that were the case. You spend most of the match blinking if you can't effectively see auras, and you miss out on a lot of auras, which means you will have to walk a lot of the time when using perks that are not on command aura reading.
It would honestly make aura reading perks zero fun to use since half the time, and you will miss important information or not get those few seconds that could have helped you find someone.
If they take away aura reading being used effectively, then I will not use aura reading. I would instead use slowdown because that change sounds like it will just force me to wait on blinks which means less time to be catching up to survivors.
It is debatable worse facing a killer with all slowdowns than one who uses aura reading because slowdown tends to turn losing games into winning games as one generator here used to be at 60% now its 0% or a 3 generator setup cannot be touched as the slowdowns are much too strong. If you effectively have zero slowdowns, you cannot delay survivors like you can with slowdowns and the amount you can delay with slowdowns is really big right now.
There is also already counterplay for it, simply by running distortion, but most people don't run that anymore; it's not like running iron will against spirits since these are perks you are going for, so it shouldn't be a problem running a perk that counters those perks if you so feel like it.
It also has the issue that a perk like BBQ which its 40 m range limitation gets nerfed more by this on nurse than nowhere to hide... That would basically make the gen kick build on nurse the better alternative...