Just bring old matchmaking back

jamally093

There have been a lot of demonstration of why this making doesn't work. It only counts escapes sure simple but that's it so your saying I can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING A MATCH and get hatch. That somehow means I'm at a good level no it doesn't even killer it counts how many kills you get okay but what if that's because someone is AFK. Skill shouldn't be if you escaped or how many kills it should be this. What did you do during the match let's say you ran the killer around and a gen went off good here's some extra points on your skill level. What's that during the chase you were downed okay why not take just a few points off not a lot just a few. What's that your AFK? Okay we're not taking any points or adding any your not doing anything meaning your not getting anything. Even for killer your chase was a few seconds but you downed the person okay some points.

Matchmaking shouldn't follow if you escaped or killed two survivors it should follow one simple thing how well you did in the match even then I think most online multi-player games somewhat follow that.

jamally093

I remember when I first played the game matchmaking was fair and easy now seeing it all it is and possibly will be is choas...maybe it started when cross-platform or something else.

burt0r

Ah yes the "good" old matchmaking, going by ranks with rainbow lobbies and more than 50% of the playerbase being clumped together in red ranks, not because of skill but because of time invested into the game each month.

Yeah, those times weren't full of mismatched lobbies, no no no, everything was peachy back than. /Big fckng S

HugTheHag

A theory is that the pool of players is not big enough to perfectly match everyone with same-skill teammates and opponents, so matchmaking has to make do with what it can and mix skill levels to shorten queue times.

Veinslay

I think things would improve if they got rid of backfilling. Everytime I wait 3 or 4 minutes for a lobby I'm shoved in a game with multiple prestige 70+ survivors all with items all readied up that someone obviously dodged. So either I play and have an awful time or I dodge and wait 4 more minutes. Teams like that need to keep waiting for a PC Nurse or Blight that would actually be fair matchmaking

burt0r

Speed over quality, that's the name of the game for the devs.

The softened the matchmaking criteria for high MMR and implemented the above mentioned backfilling which ignores most matchmaking filters from the get go and you end up with the equivalent to old rainbow ranks.

But i don't have to tell you twice when you make two parallel threads about the same topic off MMR.

MisterMister

@jamally093 said:

There have been a lot of demonstration of why this making doesn't work. It only counts escapes sure simple but that's it so your saying I can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING A MATCH and get hatch. That somehow means I'm at a good level no it doesn't even killer it counts how many kills you get okay but what if that's because someone is AFK. Skill shouldn't be if you escaped or how many kills it should be this. What did you do during the match let's say you ran the killer around and a gen went off good here's some extra points on your skill level. What's that during the chase you were downed okay why not take just a few points off not a lot just a few. What's that your AFK? Okay we're not taking any points or adding any your not doing anything meaning your not getting anything. Even for killer your chase was a few seconds but you downed the person okay some points.

Matchmaking shouldn't follow if you escaped or killed two survivors it should follow one simple thing how well you did in the match even then I think most online multi-player games somewhat follow that.

Hatch doesn’t count as progression for MMR. Calculating escapes and kills is probably the easiest way to gauge performances. How would you calculate it? What do you consider “doing well?” Say 1 match i cleansed 2 totems and escaped, the next match i cleansed 4 totems but died, which match is better? Before you answer let’s say in that second match the 4th totem you cleansed was a 5 stack devour hope and you literally saved the whole team from gruesome deaths, you know you did it, but how would the game know of your accomplishment? I think MMR can be screwy at times because some people do go afk, or some deliberately tank their MMR to get easier matches. There is no quick fix, just enjoy the game, and have fun yeah?

Pulsar

@burt0r said:

Ah yes the "good" old matchmaking, going by ranks with rainbow lobbies and more than 50% of the playerbase being clumped together in red ranks, not because of skill but because of time invested into the game each month.

Yeah, those times weren't full of mismatched lobbies, no no no, everything was peachy back than. /Big fckng S

Not like we're in any better state now.

Now we just can't SEE that we're all grouped together.

burt0r

@Pulsar said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279083#Comment_3279083

Not like we're in any better state now.

Now we just can't SEE that we're all grouped together.

I am just pointing out that all this "old matchmaking was soooo much better" is BS. Not that the system at the moment is better.

In the other thread from the op, about the same topic posted 25minutes before this one🙄, i even point out exactly the fact that both system crap the bed the same way now.

Pulsar

@burt0r said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279129#Comment_3279129

I am just pointing out that all this "old matchmaking was soooo much better" is BS. Not that the system at the moment is better.

In the other thread from the op, about the same topic posted 25minutes before this one🙄, i even point out exactly the fact that both system crap the bed the same way now.

I think the mere fact that we could see the system ######### the bed made it a better system but it's a small point, I admit.

Seraphor

Hatch doesn't count as an escape for MMR.

fake

Balance of the scales.

Wait 15 minutes and play the game with an ally or opponent of equal ability as much as possible.

Or, since you can only wait 3 minutes, play games with allies or opponents of compromised threshold competence.

Well, actually, it would be nice to have the option to choose one or the other.

The old matchmaking system was changed to MMR with no visible threshold as it is now because the rank threshold no longer works.

Emeal

@Pulsar said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279083#Comment_3279083

Not like we're in any better state now.

Now we just can't SEE that we're all grouped together.

Idd like to know how you detect the state 'we' are in.

burt0r

@Emeal said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279129#Comment_3279129

Idd like to know how you detect the state 'we' are in.

Mismatch complains on these forums and ones own experiences in game.

When you get a lobby with teammates with less than 50 hours and in the next ones with 5k hours each or the same for the killer and all that multiple times per session, i would say that paints a picture of the state.

Also the devs had already official announced that they softened the mechanism to not keep high MMR in hour-long queues.

Maybe you are an outlier going by the "we" you emphasized on. Maybe your region, crosplay on/off-platform constellation or your time of day give you different results? That is highly dependant on the factors mentioned and your personal MMR coupled with the player population "on your level".

Pulsar

@Emeal said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279129#Comment_3279129

Idd like to know how you detect the state 'we' are in.

Matches are still completely random and lopsided.

So, I use my brain and eyes.

Emeal

@Pulsar said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279232#Comment_3279232

Matches are still completely random and lopsided.

So, I use my brain and eyes.

I doubt one set of eyes and brain as a proper state detector.

Pulsar

@Emeal said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279819#Comment_3279819

I doubt one set of eyes and brain as a proper state detector.

Shouldn't take more than that to determine that matchmaking is still random and completely inconsistent.

Emeal

@Pulsar said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279871#Comment_3279871

Shouldn't take more than that to determine that matchmaking is still random and completely inconsistent.

apparently it does, like I see you complaining about matchmaking alot here. But I honestly aint got a problem with the matches im dealt, seems pretty fair to me. So I dont really see how you eye and brain that contradiction.

Dsnooz

@jamally093 said:

There have been a lot of demonstration of why this making doesn't work. It only counts escapes sure simple but that's it so your saying I can do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING A MATCH and get hatch. That somehow means I'm at a good level no it doesn't even killer it counts how many kills you get okay but what if that's because someone is AFK. Skill shouldn't be if you escaped or how many kills it should be this. What did you do during the match let's say you ran the killer around and a gen went off good here's some extra points on your skill level. What's that during the chase you were downed okay why not take just a few points off not a lot just a few. What's that your AFK? Okay we're not taking any points or adding any your not doing anything meaning your not getting anything. Even for killer your chase was a few seconds but you downed the person okay some points.

Matchmaking shouldn't follow if you escaped or killed two survivors it should follow one simple thing how well you did in the match even then I think most online multi-player games somewhat follow that.

@Peanits said:

https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/MGGCIVOEKY4M/matchmaking.png

Dead by Daylight is constantly changing, so it only makes sense for the matchmaking system to follow suit and continually evolve. We often make small tweaks behind the scenes to strike the right balance between wait times and match quality, but we’ve also been working on some bigger improvements to the matchmaking system thanks to your feedback. In this post, we’ll discuss two changes we’ll be making to the matchmaking system in the 6.4.0 update. These are:

• Team Based Ratings: Adjusting Survivor ratings based on the team’s performance as well as your own.
• Extended Breaks: Better handling for players who are coming back from a break.

We’ll dive into each in more detail later in this post, but first we want to give some context for how the matchmaking system currently works.

How Matchmaking Works

The matchmaking system’s job is to pair you against opponents where your strategy works roughly half of the time. To do this, we give each player a hidden rating that evaluates their performance. The matchmaker then uses this rating to pair you with players of a similar rating.

In order for this to work, the matchmaking system needs a win condition to determine if your rating should increase or decrease. In our case, the win condition for Survivors is escaping the trial, while a Killer’s win condition is killing Survivors. Since the game is asymmetrical, each Survivors is treated like a separate one-on-one match for the Killer. How much rating you gain or lose also depends on the ratings of your opponent: You’ll gain more rating by beating someone who’s rated higher than you and lose more by losing to someone who’s rated lower than you.

It’s impossible for a matchmaking system to accurately assess your ability from a single match due to the sheer number of factors at play. Instead, the matchmaker works over the course of many matches to gradually settle you into a place where you are comfortable. To give an example, if you lose a match, the game doesn’t think you suddenly got worse- it expects you to lose some matches! If your rating is currently lower than it should be, you’ll end up winning more matches than you lose, and that loss will quickly be offset. Or if you’re already where you should be, you’ll win a roughly equal number of matches and hover around the same place.

To be very clear, kills and escapes on their own are not a direct indicator of skill, but rather a proxy to skill, meaning playing well will improve your odds of winning. Ultimately, the matchmaker isn’t trying to judge whether or not you are the best player in the world, but rather find a place where your strategy works about half the time, regardless of how skillful it is.

Team Based Ratings

One challenge unique to asymmetrical games like Dead by Daylight is how we handle teams. Most games can check which team won a match and adjust their ratings accordingly. But this isn’t possible in an asymmetrical game like ours since Killers are playing solo. To get around this, we treat each Survivor as a separate one-on-one match. This way, the Killer can gain rating by killing three Survivors without the Survivor that escaped losing any rating.

While this works for an “everyone for themselves” mindset, team-oriented Survivors would often find it punishing to die heroically to save their team as this would be treated like a loss. This was the most common feedback we’ve received since the introduction of this matchmaking system, and we’re pleased to say that we have a solution incoming.

Starting with 6.4.0, Survivors ratings will be based both on individual & team performance. Whether you gain or lose rating will still be determined by whether or not you escape, but how much your rating is adjusted will be affected by how many Survivors escape the trial.

• For each teammate that escapes:
  • You gain more rating if you escape.
  • You lose less rating if you die.
• For each teammate that dies:
  • You gain less rating if you escape.
  • You lose more rating if you die.

For example, if you die but every other Survivor escapes, your rating will hardly drop at all. In other words, keep your team alive for best results! With this change, we aim to put a bit more emphasis on teamplay without removing the lone wolf playstyle.

Extended Breaks

Whether something important came up in your life or another game caught your attention for a while, we all take breaks from time to time. At the moment, coming back from an extended break can be a little rough as you’re trying to shake off the rust while playing against the same opponents. It can take a while for your rating to slowly drops to a place where you’re more comfortable. To make returns as smooth as possible, we’ll be improving the way the matchmaking system handles players who haven’t played in a while.

The matchmaking system has a confidence level. When you first play the game, the matchmaking system knows nothing about you, so it cannot confidently determine where you should be. As you play, your rating will shift far more than usual while it tries to figure out roughly where you belong. Over time, it learns more about you and its confidence increases, causing your rating to change less after each match.

Simply put, after long break, the matchmaking system will lower this confidence level until you’ve played a certain number of matches. This way if you’re feeling rusty, your rating will drop much quicker than before, letting you face easier opponents much sooner. Meanwhile if you play as well as when you left- say if for example you’ve been playing similar games while you were away- you’ll stay more or less around the same place.

Like Team Based Ratings, this feature will go live with the 6.4.0 update. We hope this makes the experience much smoother for returning players.

As always, matchmaking is an ongoing process. We’ll keep an eye on things behind the scenes to make sure that everything is working as intended, and we’ll continue to make small adjustments as needed. Most importantly, please keep the feedback coming!

Until next time…

The Dead by Daylight team

BHVR has updated MMR to account for team play. This should alleviate the issue of teammates who only play for their own escape.

This just happened with 6.4.0 (unless BHVR says/said otherwise) Give it more than a week for the dust to settle. It'll at least take 4-6 weeks for this to start making an impact.