Ideas to rework nurse
She cant blink anymore if she doesnt see survivor ,all addons for cd decrease or range on her blinks also should be reworked .
She cant blink anymore if she doesnt see survivor ,all addons for cd decrease or range on her blinks also should be reworked .
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I trully want nurse nerfed. But your "rework" would be waaaay too much. That would create new low killer - weaker then trapper or knight.
There are a lot of threads discussing what should be done about her. At minimum make her blink attack M2
Nope too many people know how to play her if you would play with randoms 90% of players are trash and they fall in 5 seconds with that killer its not normal .If they nerf her it must be hard increasing cd ability nerfing addons and etc .In the past when Billy was overpowered his mains were screaming everywhere that he is balanced and bla bla bla its only because this players are lazy to play walking killers and they want ez matches it shouldnt be like that .All mobile killers must have balance .
The problem about Billy was only insta saw against good survivors you had the same issue you have these days, those guys know their positioning and won't get downed that easily... As for too many people knowing how to play Nurse... I would disagree here... there are some really really good players but most the players you will encounter during matchmaking are just average and be delayed for quite some time you break line of sight and so on... And arguing that players are terrible at the game and therefore get wrecked by a killer player that knows what he is doing just sounds terrible... Oh no little Timmy with 20 hours gets downed instantly against compplayer McCompplayer... Let's nerf that killer... I mean... that's just a general issue... If you get guys that don't know what they are doing they won't know against other killers either...
Also you need to take into account that nurse without addons does not have that good mobility... she moves with a little bit more than 4.2 m/s on average when using only one blink... So holding w is already quite strong against her when you get a large map...
Nerfing a killer just because people don't know what they are doing is just beyond unreasonable...
Nerfing overpowered killer is normal .This hard nerfs must be a lot of people share mine opinion .Only typical morons that are scared for their precious nurse are scared because they wont have anymore easy matches .And the problem not only because a lot of people are vegetables and dont know how to play againts her the problem how i said above too many people know how to abuse this killer and this kind of things must be nerfed .You wont survive longer than 20-30 srconds againts smart nurse not matter you skill .This kind of power must be decreased hard.
A Nurse without addons takes longer than 20-30 seconds to down someone... Also you will always find people that can loop nurse for a longer time... Not every nurse knows what she is doing, most nurses can be looped... And I find it quite fun to go against... breaking line of sight, changing my pathing and so on... Also what do you even mean by abusing? How can you abuse nurse?
Friend, she's 3.85m/s. If she can't go through walls, she can't function.
If you think about making her 4.4m, then she can play like a bot, force you to get locked in an animation, and then you get hit.
It seems you are flying in clouds or just delusional if you think you will loop a lot of nurses
There are a lot of open fields everywhere thx to our precious devs since they reworked most of the maps they became useless open and with little amount of pallets .And i know many nurses that can win without addons .But minimum what they should do is to rework all her cd and distance addons and increase her base cd blinks .
I think you can loop most nurses, I'm pretty sure about that... I'm not necessarily saying that I can do that particularly, but I had some success with it while in the same game others went down like flies... But at least she offers more counterplay and chase interaction than other killers...
Yeah if someone has mastered Nurse there is not much you can do, but most nurses are just not that good...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUEWl9BLLao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoYBKyGD63sThese are the nurses you can face in normal matchmaking... And you cannot even call them low mmr or something because the survivors in the clip are really really good...
The point is most players in DBD are just not that good... And if the player is not that good there is just a lot you can do about it... Even comp nurses can loose games against strong(er) opponents and mediocre nurses will get rolled against really good survivors... So the statement is just plain wrong... If you are a really really good survivor player and the map allows it (just like with most killers) you can loop Nurse for a fair amount of time... and the best thing is nurse does not get stronger the longer the game lasts, as you don't get rid of pallets... The map stays as strong as it is in the beginning... (mostly...)
Nurse needs nerfs. Simple reason - one of best soloQ players can get to winstreak of 34 in a literal year. His win rate is somewhere around 50% (give or take - it's just a guess so don't be angry if it's in fact 57,23751%). One of best nurse has a winstreak of 530 games and still counting - so his win rate is 100%. Do you think this is balanced stuff?
Just to repeat myself. Nurse needs nerfs to be more in line with other killers. I am not specifying, if it's basekit. I am not specifying if it is blink attack counting as M2. All I am saying is, that she in current state is unhealthy broken. I am not even comparing her to weak killers (that objectively need buffs). All I am saying is, that nurse is unhealthy OP right now.
Yes I think this is somewhat balanced and I will explain you why... The Nurse player is in full controll of his whole team, since he is the only player there... The solo survivor player has some disadvantages compared to a SWF 1. The other players are probably most of the time weaker than him 2. He lacks communication with his teammates which reduces efficiency and knowledge about which tiles are already used 3. He only needs to die once for the streak to end and in some scenarios e.g. when you get facecamped you just die no matter what you do... Also some killers make it basically impossible to safe against them... Bubba, Trickster, Huntress... You will die before you can unhook and if you don't coordinate well it is just not going to work....
When we now compare a SWF with comms to Alfs 500 winstreak we get to like 220 wins in row or something like that? That's what Hens333 and his friends did... And there was also a 500 games winstreak from a different survivor group, but that one is older and they used items and I think had no perk limitations... Hens' group didn't use the same perk more than two times and items only when they got them in the trial... So when we compare those two groups it seems rather fine to me... In the end they lost against a comp Nurse I think, but as far as I know they also beat some comp players on the way there...
But now for the reason why I don't find this comparrison suitable... The problem here is not necessarily the balance of killer or survivor... Even though I admit that there is a huge difference between the worst and the best killer in the game and that against a comp squad of survivors only very few killers are actually viable... I would like to add that I think it is a good thing when easier to play/get good at/master killers perform weaker overall than hard to learn killer, I don't necessarily think that Nurse is the hardest killer in the game, because that is most likely billy... And to be honest, I don't want every killer to be viable against a comp squad... Because there is only so much skill involved in playing Legion or Trapper and many others where I just don't think you need to be that good to master them and at that point I think it is rather unfair because I believe mastering survivor takes far more effort than mastering Legion or Trapper... When it comes to mechanical skill.. I don't want to neglect that trapper requires a lot of game knowledge and so on... But his whole playstyle is designed in a way where I don't think he can ever be changed to be viable against comp players overall... But that as a sidenote...
Why I think that the comparisson does not fit is matchmaking... If the matchmaking was accurate and you match players of equal skill against each other like in Starcraft 2 or Dota 2 or whatever game then such a thing should never be possible... But since the matchmaking in this game does not match people accurately, Because there are just not enough good players to be matched against Alf or Hens and his Squad they will most of the time get far weaker opponents... Because there a lot of average killer and survivor players in this game and not enough really really good ones... This leads to unbalanced matches, as the devs already stated before... What they said was something like the system is actually really good in determining the outcome of a match based upon mmr, the only problem is there are not enough players of similar rating to match people appropriately and this leads to unbalanced matches and outcomes like 500 + winstreaks... But the only two options are 1. have immensely long queues to find matches and then not even be guaranteed to find a match or 2. have rather unbalanced matches but get a guaranteed one after x amount of minutes... The reasonable thing was to go for the second option because otherwise the game would just die or people would just only play custom, because no one can be bothered to wait that long for a game... Dowsey had a 2 h queue on his twins some time ago... And I will also admit that this is not necessarily only a problem with DBD... In Dota 2 the streamer Wagamama had 1-2 h long queues when he played unranked with his friends... For the same reason as we have here... Not enough players of equal skill... But Dota does not have an option that just throws you an unbalanced game so you don't have to wait that long... I have to say I prefer DBD thing because at some point people would just stop playing otherwise... like wagamama stopped playing unranked with his friends because he could not be bothered to wait that long, which is fully understable...
In summon... I think it is good that some killers, when mastered, are able to compete against really strong survivor players... Because otherwise they would just get a free win everytime... I don't mind setting a higher skill ceiling for some of those killers but I think Nurse has still a higher skill ceiling than spirit... And Spirit is really not that much worse especially MDR spirit... The main problem that leads to results like this is bad matchmaking not being able to find similiar skilled players and put them in the same match... And when this happens the outcome that a guy who has mastered one of this killers that is capable of competing against comp survivors is that not that unbalanced... Because he has mastered his killer with several thousand hours of playtime... And he is going against some average dbd players, maybe even solos... How would it be balanced if those managed to win? This would be like saying that the best Dota 2 team should have a reasonable chance to loose against some average Dota 2 players... That's just not a thing... The biggest problem is matchmaking... (Some Nerfs on Addons of Nurse, Spirit, Blight would be fine, Comp also has limitations because some addons are just too broken... But winstreaks of very skilled players are just not a good example to why a killer is considered op if matchmaking is this bad...) I fully understand the frustration when someone gets stomped by some player(s) that are far more skilled then themselves, but it is just not necessarily the killers fault but more likely the fault of the matchmaking... Also those cases are really rare, because as stated before highly skilled players are not that many, because otherwise, the matchmaking could actually do its job and match them with each other, which it cannot... So probably in 1 out of 50 games or even less you will get stomped because matchmaking put you against someone too good... (Maybe in the same game your teammates got unlucky and were underskilled for that opponent) but overall it is just really rare to get matched against those kind of players...
TL:DR
The outcome is not balanced, but fair... The whole match itself is not fair though most of the time...That does not necessarily have to do with Nurse as a character but more likely with bad matchmaking not putting together players of equal skill leading to unbalanced matches, that are mmr wise considered onesided, as the very skilled player is always expected to win against average players... I do think it is fair that someone like Alf who basically plays Nurse at comp level is able to beat the average DBD players he gets matched with (in general) in normal matchmaking...
I do not agree that this should be the outcome if the match was fair... But since it was not fair (most of the times) from the beginning... The outcome that a player who is highly skilled wins against far worse players is fair... Because if we compare that to other games... Sc2 : If Serral is expected to have a reasonable chance to loose against a Platinum Player that would crazy... Same goes for Dota2: When the best team in the world has a reasonable chance to loose against an average of players, not even necessarily in comms... This is the main issue...
After 530 matches you are bound to encounter best most sweaty SWF group at least a few times by a pure chance. If it wasn't for this high number, I could agree with you.
The alternative solution would be that MM favors alf and does not allow him to play against best survivors, or that there are no best survivors out there (both of these things would point out we do have problem somewhere)
Your missing a thing there... The comp players barely play normal matchmaking, they mostly play custom under tournament rules to practise, and they just don't get practise while stomping trash players (compared to them) in normal matchmaking... Also he did encounter comp squads that tried sniping his streak, just didn't work... At the same time Hens' Squad encountered a comp nurse that presumably tried to end their streak and they won a few times against those...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnzBaGxC6eQAnd here we both parties playing against each other...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEZShwyXHN4And Hens isn't even a comp player according to himself... The point is... Both sides can win at this level... But just because you encounter a handful of comp players (even those still vary in skill) does not mean you will automatically loose to them... There is still so much rng... Gen spread, Map rng, what map it is in the first place and so on... The thing why tournaments go in both ways is the limitations in perks and addons and that they don't choose badly designed maps... I've never heard that a serious tourmanet put guys on cowshed or Haddonfield... As far as I know they choose Wreckers Yard or Coaltower quite often... I'm not really that informed here, so correct me if I'm wrong... But when you look at one of the games they played against each other on Midwich... yeah it can still be onesided when you get one of the best maps for the killer sure... But now imagine they were on Lerys or RPD... Completely different outcome...
So I still stay with it's mostly matchmaking...
Her cd and distance addons must be reworked or removed + basic ability cd +7-8 seconds extra to her basic time increase before she can blink again its minimum what must be
Ok, so that makes it fairly obvious that you have no idea of the numbers behind Nurses power... +7-8 seconds to her cooldown?? During this time she will loose distance to the survivor with 0.15 m/s for a total of 1.05 or 1.20m... Nurse already only moves barely faster than Myers in T1:
2 seconds of holding the blink while going 2.89m/s ; 1.5 seconds of travelling 13.33 m/s ; 1.5 seconds of chain blink window 1.54m/s 2 seconds of fatigue 0.96m/s and then 1 second of normal movementspeed so 3.85m/s (to recharge her blink)... The whole process takes 8 seconds and you travel a distance of 33.86 meters... Which makes it 4.2325 m/s on average
This is one blink cycle until she can use her blink again... If you do the math with 10 second cd per blink charge we will get to:
33.86m + (7x3.85m)= 60.81 ... the whole process takes 15 seconds... So now we divide it by 15
60.81 / 15 = 4.054 m/s on average... Wow dude... You gain 5 cm per second on the survivor... This is almost worse than Burger King Myers... Good job on displaying no understanding of the numbers behind nurse... Great job... I mean you couldn't even be bothered to read about the specifics of her power in the wiki before spouting out such nonsense.
Now to a more reasonable thing: Change the range addons, and maybe slightly nerf the cd addons, make it so exposed does not work on her blinks anymore and she is fine.
Also I'm not even sure if the nerf of the recharge addons is really needed... If we take the numbers from above and remove the 1 second of 3.85m/s at the end which would be equal to running both recharge addons we would end up with 4.287 m/s Which is honstly not that much more... Therefore I think the recharge addons should be fine. Range is the bigger problem.
The thing is, that usually people can't run straight. Even largest maps in the game will not allow you to just move forward for more then say 20s (and this is extreme case). This makes nurse effectively quicker then those 4.2 or 4.05 . The thing is, that it's hard to measure, but she in fact can be one of the quickest killers by effective distance traveled outside of teleports (when blinking between floors). But sure enough - making her CD's that much longer would require her to have a little bit higher base speed. It would have been way too much.
Agreed to some part but with that long of a cooldown you can basically just run around shack once on coaltower and around main building on the other side and just keep doing that forever, Nurse will never catch you... the 4.05 only works if you start the blink immediatly after the cooldown ends... With some floating in between you will probably loose distance...
If we take Ormond for example... Nurse will usually blink to the spot where she last saw you so the corner of the main building for example... If you have a large enough line of sight blocker where you have different options on where to run next than you can force the nurse to either guess and loose a ton of distance or play it safe and not fully gain advantage of your power to blink through things...
Also the 20 seconds applys on smaller maps but when we go to the bigger ones we get more like 30-40 seconds... Mothers Dwelling is probably around 40 seconds of just running straight. And most maps have at least a long side you can run along. Even coal tower has that, and it is one of the smallest maps in the game.
you will not be forced to fully change direction, but even in 20s you will need to go around rocks or loops or something. But that's beside the point. I think we are in agreement. That big nerf would be too much if there was not some kind of compensation and adjusting range/recharge+special attack could be enough (without @barsw 's proposition)
Yeah I guess. I would like to keep nurses spirit and just remove the annoying parts,because I genuinly like her current counterplay that is so much different from that of other killers. And I believe that's mostly exposed perks or range addons.
ok maybe "nurses spirit" was bad phrasing xD So let's say her basics.