Petition To Either Create Ranked And Casual, OR Balance The Game Around SWF
the following is taken from the DBD Steam community general discussion.
Made by player weirdkid5
From Mathieu Cote himself, the reason why this game was balanced around Uncertainty Factors. This is this fundamental reason SWF breaks the game, and the devs have failed to support this fundamental:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH5jhyU6GjU
I wish to set forth a petition for the Devs to do as the title suggests. If you agree, please +1 below. Here is my argument:
What's Wrong
We need a change of pace in the game. Currently, the statistics show that a very large portion of players are always within at least a group with 1 other person. About 30% of the Playerbase are solo querers. From this game's inception, it was always balanced around the Survivors having 0 communication with each other. This is the reason perks like Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and the like exist. They exist to give you information that you otherwise do not have access to, such as teammate positions and, more importantly, the position of the Killer.
Using Voice Chat in Survive With Friends is Violation of Rule Number 5
What is Rule Number 5 you ask?
"5. Other hacks
Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. Heavy proof and a video recording is mandatory."
Whenever a group is using Survive With Friends, or SWF, they are typically using some form of Voice Chat software. This allows them to gain access to what are, essentially, free perks. In my honest opinion of playing both sides, this is a form of Cheating and using 3rd Party Software, a clear violation of the Rule Number 5 in the list of Bannable Offenses in the News & announcements section of the Dead by Daylight forum. This gives players access to the benefits of Bond, Empathy, Kindred, and even Deja Vu, as they can be informed of the Killer's position from anywhere on the map. Part of the balance was that you were always unaware, left wondering what the Killer is out there doing. Will he patrol you soon? Is he chasing someone? Or is Myers stalking you? It's supposed to be a horror game.
Unfortunately, we have a bit of a dilemma here. There are some who do not use VOIP software when they play SWF. These groups may be punished for not being able to play with each other, despite not breaking any rules. Rule Number 5 also states that video evidence is required to ban people for using 3rd Party Software that is not whitelisted. This means things like Discord, Skype, even Steam Calling are all violation of Rule Number 5. However, in the General Discussions segment there is a rule towards the bottom that says this: "- Openly admitting to cheating in DbD." Anyone who claims to using VOIP, or even anyone who has played the game with them streaming with using VOIP is technically video evidence of 3rd Party Software. Now, am I asking for anyone who has used VOIP to be banned from the game?
Absolutely NOT. Many of us simply wish to play with our friends. This is why I propose ONE of TWO changes to be made to this wonderful game. A solution should be created instead of handing out punishments or allowing the game to fester with these problems.
The Solutions
1. Create a Ranked and a Casual Playlist
Now, I know what you're thinking. "But weirdkid5, that will split the playerbase!"
The playerbase is already divided as is. There's no reason to force people to do something they do not wish to deal with, or to have to make anyone dodge or have to deal with being dodged for several minutes. Ever since the inclusion of SWF, things have taken wild turns for the balance of this game.
I suggest that we have a Ranked mode that allows only solo queue players, or if we have to compromise, up to only TWO people in a pre-made group. There could be 2 teams of 2 SWF groups. The other mode would be a Casual Mode, where any number of players can group up and find a Killer.
Ranked could have Seasonal Rewards for players who attain Ranks from 15, to 10, to 5, and finally to 1. These rewards could range anywhere from Bloodpoints, to Teachable Perks, and even unique cosmetics that do not come around very often, and can only be attained through Rank 1, or something similar.
However, there would need to be certain incentive to make the Killer's wish to play Casual Mode. Since no Rank is involved, simply providing a bonus to Bloodpoints for larger and larger groups of SWF would suffice here. It's all in fun, people can do as they wish to the Killer and he is rewarded for being a punching bag, and people get to practice their skills for Ranked Mode if they wish to be serious.
I will use Deceit as an example of a game that had SWF problems and made changes to FIX the problem rather than let it fester. Ever since the game went Free to Play the playerbase skyrocketed, but even when only a couple hundred people played it they made a Ranked and Casual Mode.
This was because groups of pre-mades made the game miserable for other players. If you were the Infected and you weren't a part of the group chat, gg game over before it even starts. To rectify this they made Ranked where you could only go in with one other person.
In light of a user's comment, Team Ranked Mode would also be good with Balance Changes. Here is is comment. Thanks for the input!
III původně napsal:
- 1
but if 4 people want for me hardcore mode i want hardcore mode for team too!
1 perk per TEAM (so only DS per 4 people etc)
no items, no addons, no offerings and GL!
If this solution is not good enough, then...
- Balance the Game Towards Increasingly Larger Groups of SWF
Bloodpoint incentives are simply not enough if this will be the solution.
Instead, give the Killer some form of increased Power for the more SWF that he has to deal with. What this increased Power is, I cannot say. I do not wish to suggest anything because I am not a game designer, but something like extra Perks could suffice. For every person that is SWF starting at 2, allow the Killer one extra Perk. This could mean he could have 3 extra Perks to play with to even the odds.
Another suggestion is to allow the Killer to have an easier time getting pips against SWF groups. For instance, if there is a full team of SWF, all you need is one kill and two hooks to get a pip. Getting 4 Kills could net you a whole 3 pips.
The last example would be adding perks for the Killer that affect only SWF players, and would not affect Solo players. This way, solo players are not punished for being paired with SWF, and the perks allow the Killer to easily adapt to a suspected SWF group. The user TWiXT is to thank for this, good suggestion buddy!
"I'm for Rebalancing the game around SWF instead of Solo Queue. In other 4v1 games the 1 was always heavily Overpowered in order to compensate. Here that is still mostly the case, but only if against Solo players. My suggestion of how to balance it is to add 2 "SWF Perk" Slots for the killer and to create at Least 1 Teachable "SWF perk" for each killer. These "SWF Perks" are heavily Overpowered perks desinged specifically for combating SWF groups. You can Fill these slots premptively, and for every 2 SWF players, one slot activates. What will make these unique is how they only affect the SWF players and not solo players. Examples:
Dead Weight - For each SWF member injured, in the dying state or killed, the other members have 15% decreased repair, sabotage and healing speeds.
No Escape - Gates take 25% longer to open for SWF players, and the Black Lock (hatch) doesn't open for them without a key.
Heavy Burden - For each SWF player within 24m of a SWF member when they are hooked, rescue takes 1 second longer, and the sacrifice progression rate is 15% faster.
Rusted Gears - SWF Members who fail skillchecks on repairs reduce the generators progression by 15% and if a brand new part was used they take 1 strike in damage and are mangled for 180 seconds.
Blinding Strike - SWF members put into the dying state have their vision go black until 1.5 seconds after being placed on a hook, being rescued or wiggling free from the killer.
Vigorous Assaut - For each SWF member still alive gain 2% movement speed, and 20% attack speed recovery when chasing them.
These are just a few off of the top of my head. The increased communication SWF has means that they are basically playing DbD on Easy difficulty for the majority of ranks, and around Normal difficulty at high ranks. For killers howerver, facing SWF is like playing the game on Expert Difficulty no matter the ranking, and to me, the only way killers will ever be able to face that difficulty on even enough footing is to be strong enough to combat it."
These are just some suggestions, if you have a better one of how the game could be balanced around SWF, comment below, or if the devs read this, I would hope that you could devise a balance change around SWF.
This way, if the Killer runs into a team of solo-queues, they will not be punished with increased Perks. However, the problem with my suggestion is that solo players that get paired with smaller SWF groups would need to suffer. This is why I say if you have a better proposition, lay it out below.
If Solution Number 2 is chosen, there should be an added indicator of which survivors are SWF. This could even be added in to the Casual Mode, and in my opinion should.
To Sum It All Up
This game is balanced around no communication. Currently, VOIP breaks all the balance in the game and can be considered Cheating under the devs own rules. Players who use VOIP should not be punished, instead a solution needs to be created so that it no longer violates Rule Number 5. And the solutions is NOT to simply whitelist VOIP programs. If they are whitelisted, Solution Number 2 MUST be implemented.
The following edit is in response to comment #284. Please see this person's reply before reading this edit.
EDIT 4: Honestly, it seems to me the majority of players wish to play Casually. From the looks of things, people just wanna have fun with their friends, and there are actually plenty of Killers that float around the mid Ranks because it makes the game more Casual for them. You should have no problem with wait times in Casual Mode because most of the people will be there, even Killers will be happy to play for ♥♥♥♥♥ n giggles and get BP. Hundreds if not thousands already do that in the mid Ranks.
Only a minority of players play Rank 1. For everyone that has given +1, we all want to play the game in it's natural form. Solo, no comms. Hard games with the best Killers. Why are you denying us minority to get away from what you all are enforcing on us? We want to play seriously, but you won't let us. We want a challenge, we want to play to win. If you want to play for fun, there's nothing wrong with that. If you want to play seriously, there's nothing wrong with that.
Let us who want to play serious have that, and the majority Casual can stay in Casual. We don't care if we face the same 1000 people over and over. You will have your 19k people playing Casually and you'll have fun, we'll have fun. we will all have fun. But I can guarantee more people would play Ranked. They would still do it and we wouldn't have terrible wait times. As a Ranked player, I'd be fine with waiting a few minutes for a balaced, good match. Let Casual games be fun and for BP, let us Ranked players enjoy serious play with special rewards, like large BP Jackpots, Teachable Perks, and even New Cosmetics only attained by Rank 1 players. Adjust Ranked Mode so that both sides have to do significant things other than just camp and pallet loop all day for ez wins.
We can do this, there's absolutely no reason this won't work.
Personally, I wish for this game to lose all the toxicity that plagues it. Everyone, let us all agree to make a change for the better of this Franchise's Future.
EDIT 1: Added Incentives for Ranked Play.
EDIT 2: Added a new suggestion for Solution Number 2 in regards to Pip Gainage.
EDIT 3: Cleaned up errors and added a new header.
EDIT 4: Added a response I had to a member in regards to making a Casual Mode and Ranked Mode. The comment number is #284.
Thank you Beckski93 for your argument and stance. This edit, my response, is what I believe to be the best option for this problem this community has. Thank you to everyone who has presented arguments from both sides. I feel we may make some progress if we keep everything civil and honest.
EDIT 5: Fixed "technically." Curse you, Boss! 😣
EDIT 6: Added a user comment for Team Ranked in the Ranked and Casual segment of the Solutions.
EDIT 7: Removed a portion that said MLGA is whitelisted. MLGA is no longer whitelisted, use at your own risk.
EDIT 8: Added a suggestion from the user TWiXT in regards to creating specific perks for the Killer that counter SWF. Pretty good job so far!
EDIT 9: Added an interview from Mathieu Cote at PAX West 2016 in regards to why the game is balanced the way it is.
Comments
Just had a toxic 4 man swf. Flashlight clicking and trolling throughout. Brought all their best items as toxic swf always do.
Kill 2 of them, one disconnects so his mate can get the hatch.
Toxic and abusive in chat after too.
This is what the developers fail to understand. People dont just want to avoid large swf groups because they have a communication advanrage, it's because the nastiest and majority of the toxicity comes from 3-4 man swf groups. Nobody wants to play with them because many are nothing more than tumours on the game.
The game is already balanced around SWF
just play nurse i 4k against every swf
I believe that swf was an intended feature right from the beginning. But I also believe that the devs did not think of nor intend the imbalance that swf creates. I think they just didn't realize what advantages swf survivors could potentially gain if they'd choose so via communication. I mean communication gives you information that can only be provided to solo survivors via perks. The fact that perks like Kindred and Bond exist shows that the devs did not think of the advantages swf survivors would have. So pretty much swf survivors have extra perk slots they can use for certain perks like Kindred and Bond. I mean you can't deny the advantage swf survivors have over solo survivors thanks to communication or?
On the other hand, It's nice to see other people agree that this game indeed is in a good spot right now balancing wise, considering the balance gap between solo and swf survivors. And I do believe the balance gap between solo and swf survivors isn't as big as some say, it's just that certain advantages can make swf teams a bit more effective, and more importantly, swf is just easier than solo. You can still do pretty much or almost as good as swf survivors playing solo survivor, it's just harder and requires more skill in general.
I also 100% agree that this game is not competitive. I mean sure it has ranks and can be played competitive, that's totally fine, it's just a shame some people take the game so serious. Playing it competitively is fine, but it's just not meant to be a competitive game in general. Mario Kart games would be another nice example of this. There's a lot of rng that goes into deciding which side wins, and the sheer fact that add ons of such different power levels exists in this game is proof that it's not a competitive game, and never was meant to be, I'm sure of that. And I personally don't mind that at all. I enjoy both solo survivor and killer a lot, so I hope whatever the devs do they are careful with upcoming balancing changes.
I agree on the most part, but I'm someone who has never dodged lobbies as a killer for any reason and I've never really thought "this team absolutely wrecked me because they're SWF". I just really don't think it's as powerful as people claim it to be. That and the fact the people always talk about SWF as if every match is a 4 Man when they're mostly 2/2-Mans who aren't talking to each other and can only really "benefit" one other person in the game.
i'm just sick of people talking about SWF as if every match they encounter HAS TO BE a 4 man SWF, it couldn't simply be 4 survivors that are just better than the killer.
I think if the devs ever want to balance the game optimally, they need to buff solo survivors by giving them at least the main advantages that swf survivors have. Kindred Tier 3 with a bigger radius for the killers aura and Bond Tier 3 come immediately to mind. If these were implemented into the base kit of survivors, than that would already improve the balancing of the game so much. Of course, killers would than need to be balanced around survivors with these new advantages, which would probably mean having to buff most killers to the level of Spirit or Hillbilly. I think then we'd have a great fundament from which the game can then be balanced much more effectively and fairer, pleasing killers, swf and solo survivors alike.
Stop, I play 4 Man SWF every day (Without Comms) sometimes we bring flashlights and mess about, but it's a video game, you're supposed to have fun and try new things, lets just ban flashlights so the killer doesn't have to "put up" with them.
If you see 4 flashlights run franklins, simple.
Killers non-stop moan about "Gen rushing" (lol) but also complain when half the team is messing around with flashlights and not doing gens?
Yeah understandable. I never dodged a swf group as well, I don't even stay in the lobby to see if survivors spawn together or not, I couldn't care less. I did have games though were I got gen rushed so bad that the game was over in like 3 minutes. Obviously I didn't play optimally, but it did feel like there was nothing I could have done as a killer to prevent a loss against those teams, and it did feel like they were insanely organized because of voice comms. Like some matches can be insane, at least with killers who aren't able to apply a lot of map pressure.
But yeah I can safely say that I get those kind of games maybe once in a hundred games, which is something I can live with, and even then, if I would have played as optimally as they did I probably would have gotten at least one kill.
Personally, while I do believe gen rush is still a bit of a problem, what drives me a bit crazy is when people want a gen rush nerf so bad but then think problems like camping is totally fine and survivors just need to "deal" with it.
I personally don't understand either side. The side that says killers are still far underpowered, except maybe for Nurse, and can't deal with half of the swf groups they face. Pretty much every game I lost as Clown up until now was also due to me making some stupid mistakes, I'm sure of that.
But then there's also the other side that says killer is so "ez" now and survivor is impossible to play. I find both sides to be challenging now, which is a nice thing. Killer can still be a bit more stressful cause you're playing against time and mistakes can be more detremental to you as a killer, but I still find both sides equally enjoyable. I find this game so enjoyable after the last patch. In fact, even as a killer main I can safely say the biggest frustration people have to deal with right now in this game is not gen rush but getting camped. I'd much rather get gen rushed by the most organized 4 man swf team ever than get camped by some killer, watching my character on the hook bleeding out until he dies.
SWF = should be renamed and redone as Ranked Matches
Solo = should be renamed and retooled as unranked Matches
Kill your Friends = should have no bearing on the game as it is kind of a freeplay/creative mode anyway.
My two cents.
Also this communication/voice chat thing being tossed around as being game breaking is kind of hard to combat when consoles like PS4 and XBox have it built into their systems. Punishing PC users for using chat is just dumb, (I play on console btw.)
The people that argue against SWF just want ez 4Ks, they don't want to have to earn them.
They argue this game is competitive and SWF ruins that. Name one competitive game where a team doesn't get to communicate with one another, mental.
Not every 4 man swf is toxic but some only play the game for that reason and they need to go. If you cant tell from the posts on here people are sick of it.
This really disproves what I stated in my previous comment, good job.
So?
You shouldn't be changing core mechanics of a game because of a tiny percent of matches.
Not every killer runs nurse with pink mori but I suppose do I think we should prevent these things because it's nasty? No, because it's part of the game and you deal with it
You have good games, and you have bad games. But theres an overwhelming majority on the forums that thinks every game for the killer should be fun and 4Kable all the time.
still waiting for this tho