What if we got diet versions of the new Mori and basekit Unbreakable?
The benefits of each are clear. New Mori system prevents games from dragging on and allows the Mori animations to be seen more often. Basekit Unbreakable is amazing anti-slugging and also ensures that the new Mori system isn't broken, ending games prematurely. But I feel like you could have the benefits of both without going to the extreme these changes seem to be. In it's current form on the whole I think the new systems do a LITTLE more harm than good. So my idea is this:
For the new Mori system before the exit gates are powered the game should only auto end and Mori if the 3 other survivors are on hook or dead. Once the exit gates are powered the auto Mori can occur if the other 3 survivors are on hook, dead or in the dying state. And once EGC it's the same but escaped is also added. This still prevents games from dragging on in the late game, but games that went a little sour early on could still be brought back if the killer left slugs. So games drag on less, and you see the Mori's more often. It's worth noting with this system I actually wouldn't propose Mori offerings be removed/changed as this Mori system should exist in addition to the old one imo.
As for anti slugging or in this case basekit unbreakable. I think it should only activate once the Last Survivor Standing is active. Basically getting yourself to "find help" is the same as before, but once there is only one survivor left you can go past find help and then a 15 second timer starts before you can get yourself up. So someone who is at find help when the 3rd survivor goes down and Last Survivor Standing starts just has to recover that tiny little bit after find help and then wait 15 seconds. Maybe some perks lower that time idk. Someone who IS the 3rd person downed has to recover all the way with find help never stopping them, and then wait another 15 seconds. Anyone who was on the ground when LSS activated can still get themselves up after LSS has ended if they reached the find help stage before LSS ended (as in when one person gets up, the other 2 if slugged can still get up.)
In addition to all that, like the PTB getting yourself up under any circumstances should use a button press instead of automatic. To further anti slugging I think all 4 of the perks that let you get yourself up before should be buffed. Here is a few suggestions for those.
Soul Guard: After recovering from the dying state be granted the endurance status effect for 6/8/10 seconds. Also gain a 10% Haste status effect for 5 seconds. While afflicted by the cursed status effect gain the Self Recovery ability. Recovery speed is increased by 5% for every hex above 1 active in the trial.
Boon Exponential: While within the radius gain a 90/95/100% bonus to recovery speed and gain the Self Recovery ability. Once recovering from the dying state within the radius gain the endurance status effect for 3 seconds, then suffering from the broken status effect for 10 seconds (to slightly nerf COH synergy)
No Mither: After being injured for the first time you suffer from the Broken status effect for the remainder of the Trial, but gain the benefit from the follow effects: Pools of Blood are suppressed, When Injured or dying your Grunts of Pain are reduced by 70/80/90%, Your Recovery speed is increased by 35/40/45% and you gain the Self Recovery ability. Upon recovering from the dying state for the first time the broken status effect is revealed to the killer. Whenever recovering from the dying state your scratch marks are hidden for the next 5 seconds.
Unbreakable: Once per Trial, you can completely recover from the Dying State (This is not spent if you recover during LSS, under the effects of a hex if you have Soul Guard equipped or if you are within the radius of Exponential). Your Recovery speed is increased by 25/30/35%. If dropped gain 30% of current wiggle progress as recovery progress.
Finally I'd like to propose a 5th perk that would be added as a non teachable generic perk. This last one I don't think is necessary or all that useful but I figured I'd give it a shot. Maybe it's existence as an option would be good.
Unnamed Self-Recovery Perk: Gain the self recovery ability at all times. Recovery is reduced by a/b/c% (Getting lower each time but at max level self recovery takes 45 seconds) Your recovery speed cannot be effected by other perks. Lose the ability to self recover during Last Survivor Standing (the speed penalty is also lost during LSS).
In conclusion my thinking is this. This version of the new Mori system wouldn't end games too prematurely and would also allow for old Mori's to still be used so people can 2 hook everyone and get a Mori 4k if they want, and people who don't bring Mori offerings can still see the animations if they earn it. This version of the basekit Unbreakable discourages and makes "slugging for the 4k" harder, but still leaves the option for slugging earlier on for pressure on the table for killers. BUT for people who don't even like that form of slugging, all of the self get up perks have been buffed.
Please let me know what you think. I personally believe if BHVR did this instead it would be a lot more healthy for the game. Which is not to say I HATE the changes as they are but I do think some killers kinda need to leave a slug for a little bit, and that these changes also significantly devalue the preexisting perks. I dunno. I think this "diet" approach as I called it is better.
Comments
I suggest of turning the PTB into a Quick Timed Game mode instead with No Perks and Add-ons on a small map, where survivors and killers are tasked to do hide and seek totem hunt, and killer can't hook survivors only slug them. Survivors have to find 15 totems in a map and prevent themselves getting slugged.
With regard to the Mori system you propose, it would indeed stop those games that end prematurely, when with the unbreakable addition there would always be an option to make a come back.
I'm not sure it's beneficial to bring the auto-end system they've proposed in at all though, because if say the killer has slugged one survivor who is close to the exit gate, and the killer knocks down the final survivor half a map away, then the auto kill would activate, when that survivor near exiting would have escaped were it not for this. It's one scenario where the proposed system is unfair.
Your Unbreakable proposal does look good on paper, and does make sense to give killer some autonomy back to a slugging tactic, whilst punishing them if they just want to go knocking people down. Whilst the proposed system feels fine to me, this does seem a bit fairer and more probably a better option a better option.
Really, for the Mori system, I'd just give killers a Cypress Mori as a basekit, and if the final survivor has been downed, with no other survivors in the trial, if the killer has not hooked or Mori'd them within 30 seconds, or they are standing, then they could suicide (effectively punishing the killer for not acting sooner).
Your perk changes are also good, although I am disappointed you didn't nerf No Mither more - I'd like to see that as a running joke :p. But seriously, it's change gives it some purpose. Maybe have it so that the "broken" status cannot be revealed to the killer too, so the killer may not be aware in the early stages that the survivor has No Mither.
But yeah, overall I'd be happy with this, albeit the Mori/LSS system is still problematic (although at least you've tried to make it more bearable, so kudos there).
Glad to hear it. My phrasing might not be the most clear but the killer won't be revealed that the survivor has the broken status effect until they get themselves up. As in if the survivor never gets no No Mither value the killer should never know that they have No Mither until the post game. I think regardless of any of my other changes, this is just how No Mither should work. They should at least be healthy to start and the killer shouldn't KNOW if they're broken because then why would they leave them slugged? In the case of perks like this you WANT to be left a slug. No Mither currently just acts as a slug deterrent and you won't actually get perk value any other way against a smart killer.
I do think at least the No Mither buff should happen anyway. Mori system/basekit Unbreakable or not. If you're broken from the start you'll never get use out of it, with or without basekit BT. No one with a brain leaves a No Mither player on the ground. Unbreakable was better in every way during the PTB. There was no shred of use case or advantage over it.
Actually I think Soul Guard and Unbreakable should work like that even if they didn't go with a more diet version of the basekit Unbreakable.
This would save Twins I think. 😀
That's interesting but that doesn't really solve the issue. This is something being proposed as a change to the main game. So we should mainly think of it as such.
You miss the point of anti slugging. Its there because being on the ground for minutes on end is unfun. Your changes misses that entirely.
The change to mori would honestly be fine, but it basically ensures that unless all 4 survivors are slugged together, one can always pick themselves up which seems needlessly frustrating?
I think your changes are straight up bad mate.
Well to be fair I don't think it's that cut and dry. The devs didn't explain the reasoning behind the addition of the anti-slugging (actually the most obvious reason is so the Mori changes aren't broken, and they just kill 2 birds with one stone. In other words they didn't set out to do anti-slugging explicitly at first). Being left as a slug is unfun sure, but it's also extremely effective. I think the latter was their focus, with the unfun-ness being a bonus. I don't think ever aspect of the game can be fun, especially not for everyone. So leaving the unfun-ness but removing the "slugging for the 4k" effectiveness is what I'd want. Not because I think slugging should be left to BE unfun. I agree my changes miss that but I think slugging should stay for killers sake.
But fair I guess. I'm not a game dev I just don't like the look of these upcoming changes and would prefer something that doesn't completely screw over 87 different little things across the game.