You addressed Killer tunneling. Now how about survivor tunneling?

When you play Killer vs efficient survivors they tunnel generators. This forces the killer to tunnel survivors. Fundamentally speaking nothing has changed about the situation where survivors have a shorter objective than killers by about 2 minutes - unless the killer gets one player out of the game with the first three hook states.


This pushes killers down a path where they only bring perks that :

1) make them better in chases (STBFL, Bamboozle, Spirit Fury/Enduring)

2) slow down down generators


You can only vaguely defend the tunneling of inanimate objects as an idea. The killer always has an engaging game because there are four people to chase right? This is wrong. The game does not feel fun if you get three or four hooks (or less) and all the gens are completed.

"Get good and that won't happen."

Oh yea? It happens all the time vs Otz and pretty much any of the big streamers. You won't see those games on his highlight reel typically.



Here's a crazy idea to consider.

Gen speeds against "weaker" killers are slower.

Imagine for example if Nurse gen speed is 90 seconds. Trapper base gen speed might need to be 120 seconds to be on the same level.


Nobody is asking for that. Killer needs some base perks too. I'm going to give you some suggestions. Please pick one and put it in the game.

1) Make deadlock base kit. Change deadlock to adds +30 seconds to the lock out and the gen regresses while it is locked out (if you have a perk that always regresses gens on kick then it activates).

2) Make Discordance Base kit for the explosion noise/yellow aura. Make DIscordance be a "Prove thyself" in reverse so that more people on a generator makes it take longer than solo unless you have PT in which case they completely cancel out.

3) Make Corrupt Intervention Base kit. Since the protection goes away when someone goes down it isn't oppressive anymore. Change base timer from 120 seconds to : 120 seconds starting only after the first chase.

Change Corrupt intervention to activate after the killer has lost two generators. For the next 80 seconds 3 generators are blocked. This would be a huge perk to make survivors "waste time" as they probably can't work on the generators they want to finish.


All three of these ideas would punish SWF efficiency without really putting pressure on solo players.

Comments

  • I didn't really pay attention to the rest of the changes (mainly because three title was absurd enough) but this change caught my eye.

    Change Corrupt intervention to activate after the killer has lost two generators. For the next 80 seconds 3 generators are blocked. This would be a huge perk to make survivors "waste time" as they probably can't work on the generators they want to finish.

    There are 7 Generators on any given Map. Once 2 Generators have been finished, 3 of the remaining 5 will be blocked.

    Do you understand how overpowered that'd be? Probably not, but it's still an incredibly bad idea

  • "All three of these ideas would punish SWF efficiency without really putting pressure on solo players."

    How do these ideas actually hurt SWF more than solo queue?

    • 1. Make deadlock base kit. Change deadlock to adds +30 seconds to the lock out and the gen regresses while it is locked out (if you have a perk that always regresses gens on kick then it activates).
    • - SWFs can 99 gens. Deadlock is a very effective perk in general but once a SWF knows its in play, they can leave one gen to be 99ed while completing other gens. Solo queue doesn't have that information so they will be hit by Deadlock much more. Plus you're asking for free 200% regression for 30 seconds with no counterplay just by bringing 2 perks.

    • 2. Make Discordance Base kit for the explosion noise/yellow aura. Make DIscordance be a "Prove thyself" in reverse so that more people on a generator makes it take longer than solo unless you have PT in which case they completely cancel out.
    • - Discordance is already a near meta level perk because of how it can give good information at nearly any point of the game. SWFs can call out gens and spread out appropriately, using Prove Thyself/working on a gen together when another is in chase away from that gen if needed. Solo queue would never be able to trust working on a gen with another person, giving the 3 gen strat even more power.

    • 3. Make Corrupt Intervention Base kit. Since the protection goes away when someone goes down it isn't oppressive anymore. Change base timer from 120 seconds to : 120 seconds starting only after the first chase.
    • - So if the killer is AFK, the game can literally never end. Neat. Otherwise, once again, SWFs can call out when a chase starts, solo queue can't. So SWF survivors can know when to head back to the corrupted gens to get a head start.

    I know you're really struggling to play killer right now, but not only do I think these changes are unnecessary, I don't think you are correct in that it would equally punish solo queue and SWFs alike.

  • @CodeDB said:

    "All three of these ideas would punish SWF efficiency without really putting pressure on solo players."

    How do these ideas actually hurt SWF more than solo queue?

    • 1. Make deadlock base kit. Change deadlock to adds +30 seconds to the lock out and the gen regresses while it is locked out (if you have a perk that always regresses gens on kick then it activates).
    • - SWFs can 99 gens. Deadlock is a very effective perk in general but once a SWF knows its in play, they can leave one gen to be 99ed while completing other gens. Solo queue doesn't have that information so they will be hit by Deadlock much more. Plus you're asking for free 200% regression for 30 seconds with no counterplay just by bringing 2 perks.

    • 2. Make Discordance Base kit for the explosion noise/yellow aura. Make DIscordance be a "Prove thyself" in reverse so that more people on a generator makes it take longer than solo unless you have PT in which case they completely cancel out.
    • - Discordance is already a near meta level perk because of how it can give good information at nearly any point of the game. SWFs can call out gens and spread out appropriately, using Prove Thyself/working on a gen together when another is in chase away from that gen if needed. Solo queue would never be able to trust working on a gen with another person, giving the 3 gen strat even more power.

    • 3. Make Corrupt Intervention Base kit. Since the protection goes away when someone goes down it isn't oppressive anymore. Change base timer from 120 seconds to : 120 seconds starting only after the first chase.
    • - So if the killer is AFK, the game can literally never end. Neat. Otherwise, once again, SWFs can call out when a chase starts, solo queue can't. So SWF survivors can know when to head back to the corrupted gens to get a head start.

    I know you're really struggling to play killer right now, but not only do I think these changes are unnecessary, I don't think you are correct in that it would equally punish solo queue and SWFs alike.

    -"SWFs can 99 gens"

    Since we got rollback for hits at pallets (for literally no reason) it should be possible to do a "gen cheese" rollback. If one finishes 1/100th of a second before the other you block the other one. People just aren't that precise.


    "Solo queue would never be able to trust working on a gen with another person, giving the 3 gen strat even more power."

    What I would expect to see from a change like this is heavily encouraging everyone to work on one generator until it gets finished with a 90 second timer. Prove and SWF promote stupid time savings and there is no killer perk that does the opposite. This game had moments where the perks were in interesting levels of equilibrium.

    Do did you play with the old Iron Grasp? The old first rank was more powerful than the current level three perk. When combined with AGI it allowed you to be able to hook survivors even if all the hooks were broken. When you dropped someone in that era it was a very short stun (maybe 1.5 seconds) so they got about 8 steps and you hit them again. This allowed you to carry against the wall a few times then you could hook them in the basement even on a map like Azarov's. This nearly perfectly countered the sabotage perk that let survivors break all your hooks forever.

    Overall survivors absolutely hated Old IG+AGI. The old perk was strong enough to counter Boil Over (the current one is not). The fact that Boil Over has so much wiggle points one to think that survivors want supremacy not equality.


    The old calm spirit was at one point an S tier perk because Spies from the Shadows was super oppressive. Crows have had a triple nerf since that time (they can be ducked past, no longer have a 9+m trigger radius and are not "literally everywhere"). If a killer was running spies and you didn't have calm you were kinda boned. Survivors said that's not fair that I need to "gamble" if the killer is running spies.

    It's funny people don't remember that now with Boon totems. Why should a killer gamble that a survivor will bring a boon totem and potentially waste 1/4 of their perks?


    -"So if the killer is AFK, the game can literally never end. Neat."

    The simple fix here is that once two gens are completed start a 120 second timer if there have been no chases. If the killer doesn't wake up at that point let the corrupt end. The survivors can just break totems and loot the basement in the meantime.


    -"I know you're really struggling to play killer right now"

    No you don't. DBD was moving to a point where you played Blight or Nurse and nothing else. It finally made some room for the other killers.

    I camp slug and tunnel until I realize I don't need to do that to win (if the team is a bunch of noobs or chill I will lighten up mid game). Whoever gets caught first you hook them again next. This is what DBD is pushing right now. It's fun for survivors and it's not fun for the killer.

    Nothing has changed to reduce the 2-3 minute gap between expected survivor objective and killer objective time respectively.