100 Games With Onryo: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

The good:

  • Visual and audio design is stellar.
  • Skin is awesome.
  • Mori is awesome.
  • Some addons are pretty interesting.
  • When the stars align and TVs spawn in useful spots, they are an okay chase/traversal tool.
  • Her perks are fine.

The bad:

  • Her height is both a blessing and a curse. It makes some loops easier to mindgame, but others harder. It's a nightmare on any map with a lot of grass (Swamp, DDS) or corn and creates awkward situations where the survivor can see you, but you have a face-full of wall.
  • As people have learned how to handle it, Condemn feels mostly superfluous.
  • TVs can be amazingly RNG. Sometimes they spawn near a gen, facing it - which feels intended. Other times they can all spawn in a giant clump, or on a different floor to the gen, or behind a wall etc.
  • Her stealth is bad. She doesn't need a lullaby, and that's for starters.
  • The lack of a gap closer or a reliable engage means that she's one of the few killers that basically plays as a pure M1 (alongside Pig) - making her sort of bad on a lot of maps or versus anyone that has the fundamentals of looping down.
  • Taking out the visuals, there isn't much about her that is unique.

The ugly:

  • At the end of the day, she feels bizarrely outdated in terms of her kit. It's a hodgepodge of stuff we've seen before, executed badly. This killer needed a complete overhaul on the PTR.
  • Condemn is just a poorly thought out mechanic. It's too strong to be useful in a way - the ability to instamori people - meaning that it can't be a regular occurrence.
  • <> Solution: Condemn is applied at a wider radius and stacks much more rapidly. However, upon reaching max level condemn, the survivor just becomes Exposed, and the mori will require 2 hook states, ala Pyramid Head. This would also make the video/TV side objective an actual thing for survivors without making her OP.
  • Her passive phasing is clunky and unreliable. While you can use it to mindgame a little, mostly people can tell where you are going and what you are doing. Hell, I have no problems reading her, and I'm a dreadful survivor.
  • <> Solution: The bonus from Reiko's Watch is added baseline. The addon now causes an extra TV to spawn.
  • Her stealth stinks. Even a Vanity Mirror Myers has more reliable approaches.
  • <> Solution: Lullaby completely removed. The bonus from Clump of Hair is added baseline. The addon still grants the same bonus, which stacks with this.
  • She is incredibly reliant on good RNG with TV spawns, and they can spawn in pretty useless configurations.
  • <> Solution: TVs will always face the gen they correspond to, will have a more even distribution (you won't have 4 TVs in a big clump in a corner of the map nobody goes to), will always spawn on the same floor as that gen and won't spawn behind walls.

These 4 changes would...probably still not make her amazing, due to her complete lack of an anti-loop or reliable gap closer, but it would make her a bit more viable and a bit less clunky.

Additionally:

  • Some people have proposed letting her pass through breakable walls and pallets while demanifested, at half speed. I really like this idea, but it would require a fundamental redesign of her and I don't think that's realistic, unfortunately.

Comments

  • I agree that Lullaby should be removed. Increase the base speed after TV is nice.

    However I disagree to remove her mori. I think it would be better just make it more apply offten or some slow overtime grow up so it would force people to do TVs as their side objectives.

    Also TVs cooldowns should be lowered.

  • The good:

    she is a licensed character and a new killer


    The bad:

    she isn't very strong and below average


    The ugly:

    survivor have already widespreadly found out how to make her impotent and bully her.

    (All of the above is my subjective opinion based on hearsay as i haven't paid for DBD content since pig and won't. Either i use shards or nothing)

  • I agree with everything you said with the exception of:

    When the stars align and TVs spawn in useful spots, they are an okay chase/traversal tool.

    When they work, which is usually, TV's are some of the best map traversal tools in the game. They're the whole reason I wouldn't say she is weak, combined with my few experiences with and without CoH.

    CoH might seem like it hurts her a lot, but in my experience, her TV's allow her to teleport right next to the Boon, wasting almost no time snuffing it.

    I do, however, agree with giving her a few buffs, like the ones I posted a while ago:

    @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    As I've previously stated, I believe Sadako is in a pretty good spot currently. That doesn't mean I don't think she could use a few buffs, along with some nerfs to balance out the proposed buffs, to feel more "threatening", especially her Condemnation mechanic.

    Here are the changes I thought of:

    -Sadako should not have a Lullaby while demanifested.

    She's the only stealth Killer we currently have that has a Lullaby and also has the Undetectable Status Effect.

    -Sadako should not lose speed while demanifesting.

    I don't think Sadako should slow down when she turns Undetectable, as it makes her feel clunky and doesn't really serve a gameplay purpose.

    She should however keep her slowdown whenever she does exit her stealth

    -TV's should have a 24 Meter Condemn-Radius.

    16 Meters is a bit little in my opinion, and 24 Meters would also fix the problem with TV's spawning in a wonky position, not allowing them to condemn Survivors.

    -Projection TV cooldown should be lowered to 60 seconds.

    100 seconds is too long, it's longer than a whole Generator.

    -Bloody Fingernail Add-on should be base-kit.

    Her current speed boost upon projecting to a TV is a bit short. Either make the Bloody Fingernail Add-on base-kit or buff the base-kit by 25% and nerf the Add-on to a 25% boost.

    -Condemnation now builds up passively, 1 stack every 25 seconds, once a Survivor gets 3 stacks of Condemnation from either Projection or from turning TV's off.

    This would make Condemnation more threatening if a Survivor decides to ignore it.

    -Holding a Tape would increase the passive Condemnation build up by 20%.

    With this change, holding a Tape while having 3 or more stacks would be extremely dangerous and would force Survivors to quickly remove the Condemnation.

    -Well Stone Add-on should be buffed to 7.5 seconds.

    If turning a TV off disabled it by 75 seconds, this Add-on should be buffed aswell.

    -Fully condemned Survivors should be Exposed.

    This would help Sadako deal with how quickly the Tape can be inserted after getting a hit.

    Here are a few nerfs she could have to balance out her buffs:

    -Turning off a TV's turns it off for 75 seconds.

    This would make turning off a TV more practical and useful, while also making Survivors interact with the Condemnation mechanic more.

    -Cabin Sign Add-on should get nerfed to 7.5 seconds.

    If the Projection cooldown were to get buffed to 60 seconds, this Add-on should get nerfed aswell.

    -Condemnation stacks, when carrying a Tape, should increase every 35 seconds.

    With Sadako's Condemnation being more potent now that it passively build up every 25 seconds along with the range of the TV's being buffed to 24 Meters, holding a Tape earlier on shouldn't be as punishing.

    These were a few buffs and nerfs I thought off that Sadako could receive to be more potent. If anyone has feedback or changes of their own, they'd be greatly appreciated


  • I like idea she pass through pallet and wall , ghost should intangible.

    Demanifest need rework.

  • @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    I agree with everything you said with the exception of:

    When the stars align and TVs spawn in useful spots, they are an okay chase/traversal tool.

    When they work, which is usually, TV's are some of the best map traversal tools in the game. They're the whole reason I wouldn't say she is weak, combined with my few experiences with and without CoH.

    CoH might seem like it hurts her a lot, but in my experience, her TV's allow her to teleport right next to the Boon, wasting almost no time snuffing it.

    I do, however, agree with giving her a few buffs, like the ones I posted a while ago:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/313585/a-few-buffs-the-onryo-could-receive-to-feel-more-threatening

    It would be a decent traversal tool - but I disagree on 'usually'. The spawn RNG on these things can be silly.

    My last 3 games:

    RPD. Several useless TVs in the very corners of the map, the gen they correspond to was inaccessible from their location. Most of the TVs were clustered around one side.

    Mother's Dwelling. 4 TVs clustered around the tall wooden structure, 3 basically naked and one right on top. Survivors could clearly see me emerging and I was miles from gens.

    Grim Pantry. A mess. TVs in the corner of the map or in amongst clutter, facing into walls. Almost no TVs in the places I would need them.

  • I’ve been having good luck with Sadako so far, her stealth is actually better in a few ways than Wraith’s and the TVs extra map mobility is quite helpful.

    • Her height is overall more of a blessing than a curse. Yeah on occasion it makes it slightly harder to see but overall that’s not that big an issue compared the benefit of essentially being permanently quasi-crouched moving behind cover. Survivors not being able to see her due to her height is more beneficial to her than her now and then losing sight very briefly of survivors she already knows are there.
    • Her Manifest and Demanifest are more fluid than Wraith’s. Wraith can move more quickly while cloaked, but once he goes to uncloak he comes almost to a full stop and if the survivor continues running away from him he is out of range for a hit even taking into account his extra lunge distance. So he has to rely on bodyblocking for followup chases, which is ok but clunky. Sadako simply keeps moving the entire time she approaches someone, she is never moving significantly slower than survivors even while Manifesting. So unlike Wraith she can approach from cover, Manifest as she runs up, and even if they start running away she is at worst maintaining her current distance with them the entire time. I can only speak from personal experience but I have had excellent results with her in terms of using her Stealth to get hits.
    • That being said, if she statistically still needs a buff I wouldn’t complain if they dropped her lullaby. 🙂 I’m not even really sure why she has one to be honest.
    • Condemned is definitely the weakest part of her kit. I’ve gotten a few Condemned kills so it does occasionally work but it’s more something to get survivors to very occasionally run across the map to a TV to get them off the gens. It would be nice if it felt more threatening. (Plus is it just me or does it feel like a fully condemned survivor should be Exposed much like Rancor exposes the obsession?)
    • Her TVs are pretty solid. I haven’t had much trouble with TVs being in “bad places” on maps. (I can’t even remember ever having a time when I was thinking “wow, that TV isn’t where I want it”.) I’m sure it can happen but it’s definitely not a common occurrence for me.
    • Overall I’ve been putting her as average, about 2 1/2 stars out of 5. Like all stealth killers her effectiveness is tied more strongly to the general awareness of the survivors. So she’s stronger than normal against average players and weaker than normal against high skill players. (I put Wraith at about 2/5 for context.)
  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856151#Comment_2856151

    It would be a decent traversal tool - but I disagree on 'usually'. The spawn RNG on these things can be silly.

    My last 3 games:

    RPD. Several useless TVs in the very corners of the map, the gen they correspond to was inaccessible from their location. Most of the TVs were clustered around one side.

    Mother's Dwelling. 4 TVs clustered around the tall wooden structure, 3 basically naked and one right on top. Survivors could clearly see me emerging and I was miles from gens.

    Grim Pantry. A mess. TVs in the corner of the map or in amongst clutter, facing into walls. Almost no TVs in the places I would need them.

    I wouldn’t really call that TV spawns being bad and more the map being bad. Swamp, RPD and Mother's Dwelling are really bad maps for the Killer

  • I think the TV cooldowns could use some adjustments, and her speed boost coming out of a TV should be longer. Being fully condemned should also inflict Exposed so it can't be as easily ignored on death hook.

  • You all keep saying she isn't good at stealth, yet every game I do play as her I end up faceplanting survivors with her. I wish I could get a streamer or someone to record video from the survivors perspective because from the killer's, it looks like it doing pretty good at scaring survivors which is what my goal is.

    I just wish they did more with her condemnation, but everything else about her is perfect.

  • @Araphex said:

    You all keep saying she isn't good at stealth, yet every game I do play as her I end up faceplanting survivors with her. I wish I could get a streamer or someone to record video from the survivors perspective because from the killer's, it looks like it doing pretty good at scaring survivors which is what my goal is.

    I just wish they did more with her condemnation, but everything else about her is perfect.

    I've played against her a fair amount, and if she's catching people off guard they just aren't paying attention. The lullaby telegraphs her proximity, and you'll generally spot her incoming.

    The big issue though is that unlike most of the cast, she has to straight up M1 chase for both hits - which on some maps is a nightmare. Her secondary objective can be completely ignored and be fine, or completely negated by a single player.

    @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856162#Comment_2856162

    I wouldn’t really call that TV spawns being bad and more the map being bad. Swamp, RPD and Mother's Dwelling are really bad maps for the Killer

    It's possible for two things to be true at the same time :).

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856242#Comment_2856242

    I've played against her a fair amount, and if she's catching people off guard they just aren't paying attention. The lullaby telegraphs her proximity, and you'll generally spot her incoming.

    The big issue though is that unlike most of the cast, she has to straight up M1 chase for both hits - which on some maps is a nightmare. Her secondary objective can be completely ignored and be fine, or completely negated by a single player.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856210#Comment_2856210

    It's possible for two things to be true at the same time :).

    I've got videos and I win most of my matches with her. She's not great in big, open maps.

    This game was a bit difficult (plus I kept getting stuck on walls with her).

    https://www.twitch.tv/araphex/v/1429411857?sr=a&t=282s

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856242#Comment_2856242

    I've played against her a fair amount, and if she's catching people off guard they just aren't paying attention. The lullaby telegraphs her proximity, and you'll generally spot her incoming.

    The big issue though is that unlike most of the cast, she has to straight up M1 chase for both hits - which on some maps is a nightmare. Her secondary objective can be completely ignored and be fine, or completely negated by a single player.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2856210#Comment_2856210

    It's possible for two things to be true at the same time :).


    Here is video of my latest game. She's not great or big, open maps like Eyrie of Crows, Badham, or any of the Autohaven Wreckers maps. But she's decent. I will say I got lucky with my first condemnation in this game.


    https://www.twitch.tv/araphex/v/1429411857?sr=a&t=282s