Unfun killer tactics are way too effective for little effort

Sluzzy

I say too effective but you could also say they are overpowered, hence killers are overpowered.

Before someone comes at me that “Sluzzy, a 4 man SWF can counter those or good survivors can deal with it”.  My answer: If it takes a perfect 4 man SWF to overcome something, there is a huge balancing problem.

One player should never, by default, simply win against an average team because builtin killer tactics are free and too strong.  The devs might say it is a strategy, well I have an answer there too, it is an unskillful strategy that is too strong. The survivor side does not have a default unskillful strategy that gives a huge advantage. Survivors are expected to become and get a PHD from looping school before they can keep killers away for longer than 10 seconds. Casuals can’t deal with it and it drives away players.  Stealth is almost non-existent so being seen by killers seem to be how everyone plays.

Now, I’m not about limiting killers. I believe strongly in big agency where players can play how they want as I feel that is contributed to DBD’s tremendous success but I feel like these killers strategies are simply too effective.  When the game first came out, survivors were so much stronger so these killer strategies were warranted strong. But now that survivors are greatly nerfed over time, killers need adjustments. I am constantly facing killers winning because they camp or tunnel someone out of the match and the survivors are not compensated. Then in many matches the survivors give up because of an unwinnable way to win. The hatch and EGC mechanic are very unfair now.  

Make the hook timer a little slower if the killer is camping. Make decisive strike cause the killer to lose the sense of sound so he can’t hear which direction the survivor is going after a strike. No scratch marks for 10 seconds after a successful strike. If the killer is stabbed, he could lose some of his senses for a little while. There is so much that can be done to deter camping and tunneling.

The Entity needs to help in these dire situations. If all four are slugged unnecessarily, why not give one a helping hand, especially at 5 gens still remaining.  Is the Entity not feeding on hope or is that simply a lie? I am so tired of going into survivor matches and seeing steam roll and after steam roll. And these killers find it fun or would not want a challenge?

Decisive Strike was overnerfed and needs a buff now. It’s never been buffed, only nerfed. If it is actually labeled as an anti-tunnel perk, then it should be one. It’s not one.  Meta killers ignore it and down them instantly again. It’s almost like a survivor with 3 perks and a tiny 5 second stun that the killer don’t even mind.

Not every game is a 4 man perfect SWF that can deal with these powerful killer tactics, there needs to be something done to help 96% of the games where it is overpowered. But done in a way that doesn’t make the perfect SWFs any stronger.

Marc_go_solo

There's a slugging setup I feel is extremely different to counter: Nurses Calling, Infectious Fright, Deerstalker, Knock Out. Done with a killer like Nurse or Blight and it's pretty much a win if you're half conpetent

There are some counters to this form of aggressive slugging, but in the grand scheme of things it's not quite enough. If a killer is focused on aggressive slugging tactics, I reckon the kill rate would go up. And whilst this may be seen as "dirty", it could become the killer version of bully squads.

This type of playstyle is what I genuinely fear most at this point.

SuzuKR

@Gwinty said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/305174/unfun-killer-tactics-are-way-too-effective-for-little-effort

Wow, this is pretty decent.

First of all there should be a balanced 50/50 chance of outcome for any match that is played. However that should not come from "camping" as a "valid tactic" but rather be a base design around the more fun parts of the game: Chasing, hit-and-run, cool use of powers and so on.

The problem is that camping and tunneling is a low risk, high reward option. Same as when survivors pre-drop and hold shift+w. These options are boring because you rarely see their risk and thus write them down as unfair and yes, they are not good. Neither "shift+w" nor camping the first person to death adds to the game.

I also agree that the Entity feeds on despair and no longer wants to play with the hopeless. She is a malicious things and wants to torture the survivors. As such I never had a problem with "second chance" perks for survivors. I only have a problem when they abuse a "second chance perk" for something else (body-blocking with BT, often while complaining about tunneling when they then get slugged for this).

Decisive Strike was not overnerfed per se. The problem back than was that the game was unable to detect when a survivor was no longer tunneled and survivor were still able to use this perk for offensive purposes (abusing second chance perks, remember) like unhooking or finishing a generator in the Killers face. The question here is: How is it tunneling when you can run to an unhook?

I am fine with your idea for Decisive Strike. Let the Killer hit a fatigue like Legion or Nurse when you blow them with that shard of glass, I am also fine with no scratches, however keep the blood. There should be a difference between DS and Lucky Break. I would even go so fare to remove the time limit if we keep the limitation (no unhooking) and add another mechanic: Once another survivor is hooked your DS deactivates like when the time ran out.

For pure camping we need a different option and a more dual aproache: Punish Killers who camp while at the same time reward Killers who go hunting with somebody on the hook. This is the reason I like "BBQ & Chilly" as well a "Hex: Devour Hope" as both encourage this. Just slowing the hook timer would not do this justice as the person on the hook is still getting the short end of the stick.

Also you are right: The game can not be balanced around 4 people playing SWF on discord. There are too many greys like 2-1-1, 3-1, 2-2 lobbies. Most time I encounter 2-1-1, 3-1 lobbies and thus balancing around the rare 4 stack is just...unwise.

Tunneling/camping are both high risk when done recklessly. Which is good. It is literally never low risk outside of situations it would be stupid to not camp or tunnel.

OpenX

@gilgamer said:

When sluzzy is making good points you know you've messed up

Is it a good point? Tell me how holding M1 on a gen is more effort than facecamping as Bubba. Id argue facecamping is more effort because you can AFK on gens with spine chill and listen to music. You actually have to pay attention while facecamping.

GeneralV

@QwQw said:

Hey, Sluzzy, what is your favorite killer and survivor?

I would guess Nurse and Laurie.

SunsetSherbet

It's still amazing to me that during a time of increasingly worse queues, people would still be fine with heavy handed nerfs that would make the queues longer and longer until they're like an hour plus. This is why I assume many survivor mains don't care about the queue time as long as they can get in a match to clicky clicky tbag some newbie.