Suggestion for camping and incentivizing chase
While listening to the discussion between Tru3 and Otz from March last year (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhi6YLWFyRA), I was building a bit of the things I hear suggested by them, thinking of a way to deal with camping and also encouraging more roaming for both the Killers and the Survivors.
Like Tru3 says many times, he has the most fun with chases both as Survivor and as Killer. I believe I have seen this uttered by many, and as a Killer main I also enjoy good chases the most (when I can afford them). I think this game has so much potential, and I think we are all here because we at least care a little bit about the game and want to see it improve.
If anything, this is just me sharing my thoughts, and I am interested in seeing what you all think.
TL;DR in advance: Implement a halt to the sacrificial process if the Killer lingers too close to the hooked Survivor, a default base regression for the Killers which is a new type of Ruin that is not a hex but rather a base kit with conditions for distance to hooked Survivors and with counterplay, which adds a new objective for the Survivors.
This new Ruin would be a double-edged sword for Killers. It could also make sense on a lore-level. While gens would regress by default at the same speed (or a bit slower) than current Ruin, the Killer cannot linger around hooked Survivors, as the Entity thrives on the hope of Survivors and will halt the goal of the Killer if the Killer does not serve the Entity's interest, hence the closer the Killer is to the hooked Survivor, the slower the rate of both the sacrificial process and the generators regression. Let's say for the sake of examples both the sacrificial process and the regression could range from full speed 32 meters away from hook, half speed within 32 meters of the hook and if the Killer is 10-12 meters within the hook, the Entity halts the sacrificial process completely pausing their timer and disabling skill-checks for the camped Survivors while removing the regression from all generators while the Killer lingers within this vicinity. Each time a Survivor is hooked it still counts towards their hook count, but the timer and skill checks lessen the closer the Killer is, and if the Killer lingers within 10-12 meters of the hooked Survivor they can hang indefinitely. When all the generators are completed or the end game collapse begins, Ruin and all its effects no longer applies. This could incentivize chases and hooks for the Killer, rewarding what most might find fun rather than just aiming for the killing itself but having to do it "the Entity's way" (which only makes sense given the game lore), while actually being able to afford doing so and at the same time actually punishing facecamping.
The Survivors would also have a new objective which would offer a counter mechanic to the new Ruin. There would spawn new types of chests or some sort of containers that are scattered throughout the map where Survivors can pick up pieces of parts (not the toolbox item). The Survivor would need a couple or more of these pieces to then put together an Assembled Part that they can then apply on a generator. These pieces and the Assembled Part they build into would then NOT count as the Survivor's active item, but is a passive item they carry on them only during the trial. Whenever a Survivor with an Assembled Part repairs a generator, they can choose to apply the Assempled Part to that generator which will boost the repair progress by a small but fair amount and stop the effects of Ruin on that generator, hence it will not go into regression after they stop repairing, and if the Killer damages that generator, the regression on it will be half the speed of Ruin.
If a generator with an Assembled Part is completed, it automatically goes to one of the Survivors who repaired it.
Comments
Implement a halt to the sacrificial process if the Killer lingers too close to the hooked Survivor
I will say this again: The devs tried a 'If the Killer is too close to the hook, do <x>' punishment. In their case, it was 'The struggle meter empties slower'.
Survivors abused it by forcing the Killer to either camp, or walk away for a free unhook.
So stop. Everyone. Stop with these camping punishments. They cannot work. Every single one has been abusable by Survivors. Let me explain:
Now, what are my choices?
This is how these 'punishments' ALWAYS can play out. Every, single, one.
And this is not a hypothetical; this is, literally, how it played out when the devs tried this. Survivors showed they would abuse the HELL out of it for their own benefit.
People need to accept that camping has it's uses, and any 'punishment' they invent will be so massively abused that Killers would never stand for it.
As for the rest...Eh? The problem with making Ruin basekit is that Killers cannot kick already-regressing generators, which means perks based on kicking generators are now useless & all need a rework.
Also; how long with this part Survivors can find halt regression for? The entire match? A minute? Two minutes?
I do like the idea that regression would be based on Killer's proximity to a hook, but it should maybe be worked into Ruin itself.
Thanks for sharing. While it is the Survivors' objective to escape the trial before they are killed, it is the Killer's objective to do everything in their power to kill the Survivors before they can escape and this indeed includes camping. The idea was to give Killers a double-edged sword to both be able to afford chases better at the cost of camping efficiency - the closer the Killer is, the higher the cost, but if as you say the developers did indeed test around with something similar to this suggestion regarding slower sacrifice upon the Killer having close proximity to the hooked Survivor and it did not work well, I totally agree to scrap that and continue to try to find ways to both balance and incentivize ways that we might have more fun with our objectives, both as Killers and as Survivors.
Perhaps better than a base Ruin would be a Pop Goes The Weasel basekit implementation for Killers, which would both offer more balance as the Killer's damage of the generator is very slow regression while also being something the Killer has to work for to apply.
The idea for the Assembled Parts was that they do not halt regression on a generator if the Killer damaged it, but just halted the effects of Ruin on the generator they were applied to, and that there would perhaps be a maximum of two Assembled Parts being obtainable in a trial. In the case of this idea with Pop Goes The Weasel basekit instead of Ruin, perhaps these parts would instead boost the repair speed by a small but fair amount (but not instant or super repairs like older versions of Brand New Part). Since they are a few pieces that need to be assembled into parts, the assembling itself could also be a little mini-puzzle where you rotate and turn the parts to fit each other, offering something interactive as a side-objective for the Survivors.
My suggestion would be to make the parts temporary, and have them respawn 10-15 seconds after their effect wears off. In this way; Survivors are not screwed if the Killer camps a gen a Part has been used on.
I like the idea of Pop being basekit, but I have a problem with gen-kicking in general; it takes the Killer 3 seconds to START a regression,a nd Survivors literally gen-tap in 1/60th of a frame of animation. It's something devs need to look at and fix before gen-kicking (and gen kicking perks) become useful. Because the Killer is wasting 300x the time kicking, than Survivors spend gen-tapping.
I like your suggestion there, that is a good idea for countering camping of an Assembled Part.
And I really appreciate that you mention the issue of Killers having to channel to kick the generator in order to make it regress (and very slowly too) while the Survivors can literally tap M1 to instantly stop regression. This is something I have tried to share several times around the forums, but don't see enough attention paid to this, as this is an issue that causes core imbalance multiplied by 4. I hope they make it so the Survivors also need to channel in order to stop regression and start repairing. Another thing I also think is important is when a Survivor fails a skillcheck and runs off, the generator explodes, but still counts as being undamaged (not regressing). The Killer somehow still has to spend time channeling to damage the generator that in fact just exploded. This makes no sense and is another imbalance multiplied by 4. I hope they make it so that when the generator explodes, it counts as being damaged (naturally) and goes into normal regression (same pace as a Killer damaging it).
I honestly think Survivor stopping regression should work as follows:
Basically, the Survivors have to hit a Skillcheck to remove Regression from a generator.
I agree, I think that's a good suggestion.
I'm just enjoying seeing a discussion where people propose ideas without trying to shame or name call. Love to see it
Thanks for sharing. Seems like a fair addition in my opinion.