outdated perks: suggestions regarding Sloppy Butcher/Iron Will should be changed to durations.
Hey with Vigils recent changes, and also looking over various builds on both sides I've noticed some things:
-Iron Will outshines any perks that contends for its slot, just because it cannot be countered and has an indefinite duration, off the record and bite the bullet have set requirements and only last so much time, making them much worse. Making Iron Will like Lucky break would shift the meta and make us have to choose other perks and stop the "mindgame" crutch we clung to much like we complained about in regards to spirit, it's not accessible to newer players.
-Sloppy Butcher gives debuffs that have an infinite duration which Vigil should be interacting with (make it last 60 seconds or more) making it more consistent than other perks like coulrophobia and forced Penance (which vigil can interact with). If you don't capitalise on your injured survivor for over a minute I do think we shouldn't be rewarded free pressure.
TL;DR: start giving perks actual consequences, especially now the main culprit is gone (Spirit), especially if Stridor doesn't interact with Iron Will anymore.
Are there any perks you find are outdated in design in terms ofbad interaction?
Comments
I think iron will should just give the survivor regular breathing (as if they were healthy) instead of the injured noises, rather than just making them completely silent. This would also make stridor actually have at least some use again (although it’d still not be very good).
Sloppy butcher is fine the way it is. It’s meant to slow down healing, not force you to wait 60+ seconds to avoid slower healing.
Also not sure what you’re trying to say about coulrophobia, vigil has 0 interaction with that.
Regarding Sloppy, I asked McLean something similar to this before he left BHVR. This was after the Clown rework.
"Why did you make all Mangled add-ons infinite, similar to Sloppy Butcher?"
The thinking was like this. They compared Mangled to Broken, as they're the two status effects that most closely resemble one another. Mangled was about slowing healing, while Broken was about taking away your option to heal.
With this in mind, considering Mangled would only slow heals down, it having a timer was ultimately decided to be rather redundant.
And not downing someone for a minute isn't "free pressure." They're still injured. They can't go for a save on a hook, they can't afford to do any risky plays because they're 1 mistake away from going down. It's a hit you earned and you're capitalizing on by having a perk that's encouraging them to stay in a vulnerable state.
Free pressure is when Nemesis' zombies come bother you on a gen because you just got unlucky.
Sloppy Butcher isn't even good right now. The last thing it needs is a nerf.
I like the breathing idea, but it doesn't fix that its still better than other silencing perks.
I was comparing sloppy to Coulrophobia, not its interaction vigil, apologies that such was not clear, like why take coulro when you could bring sloppy?
It can be free pressure, for doing nothing you get value from the perk, easier tracking, slower healing. I see no reason why Vigil shouldn't interact with it if you choose to let the survivor go for long enough. Also thats not "luck" Zombies have a specific detection range and also react to notifications like discordance.
I'm guessing you are referring to boons? I'm not really taking them into consideration, honestly I think Circle of healing could be slower lol. As for sloppy Less about it needing a nerf, more about bringing it to interact with the rest of the game, a minute or two is a long time, enough to buy the killer time, but if they aren't capitalising on the injured survivor, I see no reason why it shouldn't fade IMO.
Even before boons sloppy butcher wasn't really good outside a few killers who could do hit and run tactics. The 4 second (or 8 seconds with self-care) slowdown on healing has been becoming less effective over time. Survivors have a lot of good healing options for perks, med-kits have been indirectly buffed by other items being nerfed (toolboxes, keys), and most killers simply cannot get around the map quick enough to actually interrupt survivors healing.
It's the same reason nurse's is not as popular as it once was. Killers simply can't rely on catching survivors healing as their main tactic and need to focus more on slowing down gens.
See that's the thing, you could buff it in trade off of giving it a duration. Make it work off of abilities even, it doesn't have to be a nerf, the idea is more to rework the perk, I was just suggesting one part of it which irks me about the perk design really.
Mangled isn't good right now as an infinite duration status effect.
Most killer abilities that would benefit from inflicting mangled already have an addon to apply it. And generally the mangled addon is better than sloppy since there's simply far better perks to run to help with gens. So even if sloppy could apply from abilities again, no one would use it.
Any buff you give sloppy butcher for limited duration mangled is just going to kill the perk. It's already not really run outside a few killers like Wraith who are good at hit and run style play.
If it was going to be based off duration then at that point it should just inflict broken instead. Which honestly wouldn’t be a bad idea as a rework to forced penance - what it is now with its protection hit requirement makes it not worth running most of the time.
But the point is, broken already exists to make healing not an option. Mangled being on a timer is therefore redundant.
You could make sloppy butcher work on special attacks, if it has a duration any shorter than like, 3 minutes or more, it’s probably a net nerf for most killers.
I use forced penance atm to deal with boons since people play altruistically who use them, if sloppy lasted 3 minutes thats like a fifth of a longer match if that, approximately 3 gens, I don't think it'd be that bad to have it run out by then as they'd probably be healed by then anyways, or downed.
Honestly, something needs done with boons but I wouldn't know what to suggest lol