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Plans to adress genrush?

Master Master
in General Discussions

About 7 months ago we got this reaction from the devs regarding the depip squad experiment:
https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyEagerAlfalfa4Head

Nothing has happened regarding generator time so far. Is there something coming, do you have any plans or do you guys from BHVR intend to leave the situation as it is?

Comments

  • BigBubs BigBubs

    Any plans to adress kill rush (tunnel,camp etc)?

  • Master Master

    @BigBubs said:
    Any plans to adress kill rush (tunnel,camp etc)?

    Got implemented in the last 2 patches

  • The_Crusader The_Crusader
    Honestly with how many people use NOED these days I think it's fine as it is. You have to wreck the totems in most games. Plus we have the healing nerfs now.
  • Blueberry Blueberry

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

  • ad19970 ad19970

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

    Well not completely no. I'm aware that perfectly organized survivor teams can still have the upper hand with how fast they repair gens, giving the killer no real chance to do good in that game. I know that in the absolute worst situations the killer still has barely any chance.
    I do believe the game's main balancing problem comes from swf, since they have pretty much access to additional perks like kindred without having to use perk slots for that. So buffing solo survivors to the swf level and then buffing killers accordingly would be the optimal solution i believe.

    However I have seen videos from this youtuber true3ta1ent who has already been able to win against certain teams that were insanely organized, though i know it's quite unlikely to win a game as a killer against these kind of teams, no matter how good the killer is. Not impossible though, at least I believe so.

    However, at least in my experience those kind of games don't happen often. So no, I don't believe the game is perfectly balanced, but I do believe it's quite decent right now. Especially when i see how the game was a year ago. I only started playing this game however 2 and a half months ago so I'm not that experienced yet.

    I've only reached rank 1 with killer till now. I still suck with survivor too much to reach rank 1. I Believe I haven't gotten higher than rank 5 with survivor.

  • Blueberry Blueberry

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

    Well not completely no. I'm aware that perfectly organized survivor teams can still have the upper hand with how fast they repair gens, giving the killer no real chance to do good in that game. I know that in the absolute worst situations the killer still has barely any chance.
    I do believe the game's main balancing problem comes from swf, since they have pretty much access to additional perks like kindred without having to use perk slots for that. So buffing solo survivors to the swf level and then buffing killers accordingly would be the optimal solution i believe.

    However I have seen videos from this youtuber true3ta1ent who has already been able to win against certain teams that were insanely organized, though i know it's quite unlikely to win a game as a killer against these kind of teams, no matter how good the killer is. Not impossible though, at least I believe so.

    However, at least in my experience those kind of games don't happen often. So no, I don't believe the game is perfectly balanced, but I do believe it's quite decent right now. Especially when i see how the game was a year ago. I only started playing this game however 2 and a half months ago so I'm not that experienced yet.

    I've only reached rank 1 with killer till now. I still suck with survivor too much to reach rank 1. I Believe I haven't gotten higher than rank 5 with survivor.

    Keep in mind when you're basing things from a viewpoint like True3Ta1ent, he can post only his best games on his youtube if he wanted. I''m not saying he's not good, I actually think he's very good. However someone could slaughter 1/100 games and just post those "1" games he does good and you'd think wow he's amazing and killer MUST be strong. When in reality he just doesn't post the majority of them that went badly.

    I also think peoples view points on balance change significantly once they've been regularly playing at rank 1 on both sides for quite a while and have a good bit of hours under them. Most the people that think killers are too strong or even that the games balanced just only play survivor or killer at a low rank where anyone can slaughter.

  • ad19970 ad19970

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

    Well not completely no. I'm aware that perfectly organized survivor teams can still have the upper hand with how fast they repair gens, giving the killer no real chance to do good in that game. I know that in the absolute worst situations the killer still has barely any chance.
    I do believe the game's main balancing problem comes from swf, since they have pretty much access to additional perks like kindred without having to use perk slots for that. So buffing solo survivors to the swf level and then buffing killers accordingly would be the optimal solution i believe.

    However I have seen videos from this youtuber true3ta1ent who has already been able to win against certain teams that were insanely organized, though i know it's quite unlikely to win a game as a killer against these kind of teams, no matter how good the killer is. Not impossible though, at least I believe so.

    However, at least in my experience those kind of games don't happen often. So no, I don't believe the game is perfectly balanced, but I do believe it's quite decent right now. Especially when i see how the game was a year ago. I only started playing this game however 2 and a half months ago so I'm not that experienced yet.

    I've only reached rank 1 with killer till now. I still suck with survivor too much to reach rank 1. I Believe I haven't gotten higher than rank 5 with survivor.

    Keep in mind when you're basing things from a viewpoint like True3Ta1ent, he can post only his best games on his youtube if he wanted. I''m not saying he's not good, I actually think he's very good. However someone could slaughter 1/100 games and just post those "1" games he does good and you'd think wow he's amazing and killer MUST be strong. When in reality he just doesn't post the majority of them that went badly.

    I also think peoples view points on balance change significantly once they've been regularly playing at rank 1 on both sides for quite a while and have a good bit of hours under them. Most the people that think killers are too strong or even that the games balanced just only play survivor or killer at a low rank where anyone can slaughter.

    Yeah like I said I haven't gotten that much experience yet with this game, especially at rank 1. I'm just voicing my personal opinion, but i know that I might be wrong about certain stuff. Balance is always a hard thing to get right.
    I do believe though that especially because of add ons, this game could never become perfectly balanced or become a properly competitive game. The power that certain add ons or items enable in this game can make such a difference.

    Regarding true3ta1ent, I am aware that he doesn't post every match of him, and that there are definitely matches where he loses quite bad. In fact, he has occasionally posted such a video of him losing as well. It's just that I've seen certain matches of him where just from watching I thought that the survivors in those matches were playing optimally, couldn't really have played much better, and yet he still won. That was the point I was trying to make. To me he proved that you can even win against almost perfectly organized survivor teams if you have a really good game, and a bit of luck maybe. Of course i myself am nowhere near as good as he is.

    He did say though that he plays 2 and a half hours of killer daily, so I do believe he uploads the majority of his matches to youtube. But I'm sure there have been matches that didn't go well for him that he didn't upload, because nobody wants to watch a 4 minute gen rush match.

  • Blueberry Blueberry

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

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    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

    Well not completely no. I'm aware that perfectly organized survivor teams can still have the upper hand with how fast they repair gens, giving the killer no real chance to do good in that game. I know that in the absolute worst situations the killer still has barely any chance.
    I do believe the game's main balancing problem comes from swf, since they have pretty much access to additional perks like kindred without having to use perk slots for that. So buffing solo survivors to the swf level and then buffing killers accordingly would be the optimal solution i believe.

    However I have seen videos from this youtuber true3ta1ent who has already been able to win against certain teams that were insanely organized, though i know it's quite unlikely to win a game as a killer against these kind of teams, no matter how good the killer is. Not impossible though, at least I believe so.

    However, at least in my experience those kind of games don't happen often. So no, I don't believe the game is perfectly balanced, but I do believe it's quite decent right now. Especially when i see how the game was a year ago. I only started playing this game however 2 and a half months ago so I'm not that experienced yet.

    I've only reached rank 1 with killer till now. I still suck with survivor too much to reach rank 1. I Believe I haven't gotten higher than rank 5 with survivor.

    Keep in mind when you're basing things from a viewpoint like True3Ta1ent, he can post only his best games on his youtube if he wanted. I''m not saying he's not good, I actually think he's very good. However someone could slaughter 1/100 games and just post those "1" games he does good and you'd think wow he's amazing and killer MUST be strong. When in reality he just doesn't post the majority of them that went badly.

    I also think peoples view points on balance change significantly once they've been regularly playing at rank 1 on both sides for quite a while and have a good bit of hours under them. Most the people that think killers are too strong or even that the games balanced just only play survivor or killer at a low rank where anyone can slaughter.

    Yeah like I said I haven't gotten that much experience yet with this game, especially at rank 1. I'm just voicing my personal opinion, but i know that I might be wrong about certain stuff. Balance is always a hard thing to get right.
    I do believe though that especially because of add ons, this game could never become perfectly balanced or become a properly competitive game. The power that certain add ons or items enable in this game can make such a difference.

    Regarding true3ta1ent, I am aware that he doesn't post every match of him, and that there are definitely matches where he loses quite bad. In fact, he has occasionally posted such a video of him losing as well. It's just that I've seen certain matches of him where just from watching I thought that the survivors in those matches were playing optimally, couldn't really have played much better, and yet he still won. That was the point I was trying to make. To me he proved that you can even win against almost perfectly organized survivor teams if you have a really good game, and a bit of luck maybe. Of course i myself am nowhere near as good as he is.

    He did say though that he plays 2 and a half hours of killer daily, so I do believe he uploads the majority of his matches to youtube. But I'm sure there have been matches that didn't go well for him that he didn't upload, because nobody wants to watch a 4 minute gen rush match.

    I actually think the majority of them that he slaughters that the survivors just played bad. Exceptions obviously being with killers like nurse/billy/huntress. Using something like the trapper against a very good group you just aren't winning. Killers like the trapper there's just only so much you can be skill full with and the ceiling is low.
    Also, of course the game isn't going to be balanced for things like very-rare/ultra-rare addons. You have a limited amount of them and they aren't common, they're supposed to be an exception to the norm.
    I'm just saying that whether you win or lose has a lot less to do with you as the killer and a lot more to do with if the survivors messed up. That is barring some odd exceptions like nurse/ultra-rares/etc.

  • ad19970 ad19970

    @Blueberry said:

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    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @Blueberry said:

    @ad19970 said:
    I believe nerfing gen rush will take much more work than people realise. If the devs just add a second objective without balancing other aspects of the game according to the gen rush nerf than this game will die very fast. I'd rather get gen rushed every second game than spend my time in empty killer lobbies.

    Camping and tunneling would both become way too good strategies, if you consider that they are the most frustrating strategies for survivors to deal with. Solo suvrivors would need some aura reading buffs to get the same information as swf survivors get as well.
    And imagine how overpowered Nurse or billy would become when adding a second objective. Nurse in fact would need an entire rework if they ever added a second objective, in my opinion. Certain killer perks and killer add ons, like some of the very rare ones of Myers would also need to be nerfed quite a bit. Otherwise these kind of things would become way too overpowered if killers got more time to deal with survivors. Green and red Moris would also become too good. So it would take a lot of work if they ever wanted to add a second objective to the game. Which is why I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

    Personally, I'd be happy if they just nerfed tool boxes, so they don't allow survs to repair at ridiculous speeds. It would be at least something. A second objective would be perfect, but it would require much more rebalancing of other aspects of the game which would take a lot of work.

    Toolboxes have absolutely nothing to do with the problem.

    Of course they aren't the source of this problem. At all. I know that. They can make gen rush even slightly more frustrating though, making the repair speed of survivors even faster than it already is. There isn't much else I can see them nerfing for gen rush without the other balance changes I have mentioned though, anything big would cause certain killers and builds to become overpowered from this point on, with many survivor players just leaving the game if they constantly have to deal with overpowered bs. It takes only one killer build to be overpowered for everyone to run it and seriously get in the way of the enjoyment for survivors.

    Different perks are better for different killers so I wouldn't quite say one perk build for all. However the extra time added to the rounds with all 4 survivors gathering nectar for the event has been almost perfect so I think they hit it pretty well.

    Really? Don't get me wrong I'm a killer main and I would love to see a gen rush nerf so that games can't be finished in under 5 minutes anymore, which can be really frustrating, but from what I've experienced is that during this event killers definitely had the upper hand in most matches, hurting especially solo survivors at lower ranks who just got wrecked. Especially against certain killers like Billy.
    Top Tier killers, especially the nurse, couldn't be left untouched with a gen rush nerf in my opinion.

    At rank 1 things seemed to get more balanced again because there were less people going for plants and if they did, they knew not to ignore gens and prioritise plants. So I get that these plants aren't totally representative of how a second objective would work out in this game, but still.
    Camping and tunneling are also two things that, to me, would need nerfing without a doubt, and were way too good strategies during this event, especially for how frustrating those strategies are for survivors.

    I get what you mean with the builds. I meant specific for every killer. Just imagine a Myers equipped with an unlimited evil within 3 add on or an add on that lets him insta kill survivors in a chase. If survivors needed more time to complete their objectives, something like that would become way too overpowered, and would need serious nerfing. Same goes for other really good killer add ons like insta hatchets or the bottles of the clown that expose survivors, and I could see certain perk combos for certain killers to become too good as well. Oh and the moris. Damn they would become so overpowered with a second objective.

    Well first we shouldn't be balancing around ultra-rare perks. They're ultra-rare, they're supposed to be a little busted just like a BNP.

    I think it's better to balance something around using it to it's fullest potential ie rank 1 not rank 20. Balancing around rank 20 would mean I'm designing something that's way too strong because I'm just going to assume you're gonna be stupid and not use it correctly. We need an environment where people must strive to learn and become better, not have it handed to them.

    Finally, camping/tunneling aren't the problems. Tunneling and camping are only symptoms of the real problem in the game, which is balance. Killers feel backed into a corner. If the game was properly balanced, you'd see a drastic decrease in tunneling/camping. If they're getting bumrushed in 5min and looped for 3 gens at a time does it really surprise you to see them tunnel/camp?

    Ok, I get your first point, personally though I feel like these add ons would still be a problem, because no survivor player would want to face a killer with insane add ons if they also now have to deal with more objective time.
    I also get your second point, this is something most games struggle with, games like Overwatch as well. But DBD isn't really competitive, and just balancing around rank 1 will not work. This game will otherwise lose too many players, and newcomers already have it harsh because of the insane grind in this game, although that's also caused by an entirely different problem.

    Also, as of right now, tunneling and camping aren't problems, at least not from a balance point of view, I agree. From a design point of view though they are a problem in my opinion. An online game should never have the most viable strategies for one side be the most frustrating strategies for the opposing side, though I do get that camping can be countered. If you are playing with 4 solo survivors though chances are it's too late until everyone has noticed that the killer is camping in order to gen rush.

    However, what I mean is that what exactly will prevent killers from camping and tunneling in the future even with a second objective added to the game? Especially tunneling would give killers too much of an advantage, once one survivor is killed. It is right now probably the most effective way to play killer sadly, and with a second objective, I believe tunneling would become too good, camping as well. These problems may have been caused by the bad balance of the game's past, but adding a second objective will not hinder any killer players at further camping and tunneling.

    The games been way, way out of balance for so long that I think making the proper balance change first and then seeing how it plays out with tunneling/camping would be the better solution. Tunneling/camping to most, isn't fun. I think a lot less people would do it than you think if they didn't feel they had to. If the game got properly balanced and it was still happening excessively to affect games then sure maybe then they could look at further measures. However, I don't think personally that it would be an issue. Also like you said yourself as well, there are a multitude of counters to these things currently in the game anyway. Heck they even just made the killers get penalized on their points if they camp.

    I can understand your point. However, while I have had quite the amount of games during this event that were more or less normal, since these survivor teams didn't seem to care for the plants, I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of the games during this event right now are also quite slow, just like I would want the game to be. Yet I just faced off against three campers in a row, that tunneled and camped me like crazy. One where all four survs went for plants instead of gens, slowing the game down quite a bit. It wasn't fun. Like at all.

    Once again, I am a killer main myself and I would love for second objective to be added into the game, but personally I still believe it should not happen without at least nerfs to camping and tunneling. But that's just my opinion. I just fear the game would lose too many survivor players even if the amount of campers and tunnelers was small. Just the fact that these strategies are still very effective will turn off many survivor players.

    I also feel like this game right now is pretty well balanced. Obviously without gen rush, camping and tunneling being so effective it would be even better, but still.
    Really I would totally understand why people would stop playing this game, and then these long killer qeueing times of this event would become the norm. Camping in particular is so frustrating and rewards the killer much more than he should be for the minimum amount of skill required to camp.

    You think the game is pretty well balanced right now? We completely disagree on the premise of this all if you do believe that. Do you play both sides at rank 1?

    Well not completely no. I'm aware that perfectly organized survivor teams can still have the upper hand with how fast they repair gens, giving the killer no real chance to do good in that game. I know that in the absolute worst situations the killer still has barely any chance.
    I do believe the game's main balancing problem comes from swf, since they have pretty much access to additional perks like kindred without having to use perk slots for that. So buffing solo survivors to the swf level and then buffing killers accordingly would be the optimal solution i believe.

    However I have seen videos from this youtuber true3ta1ent who has already been able to win against certain teams that were insanely organized, though i know it's quite unlikely to win a game as a killer against these kind of teams, no matter how good the killer is. Not impossible though, at least I believe so.

    However, at least in my experience those kind of games don't happen often. So no, I don't believe the game is perfectly balanced, but I do believe it's quite decent right now. Especially when i see how the game was a year ago. I only started playing this game however 2 and a half months ago so I'm not that experienced yet.

    I've only reached rank 1 with killer till now. I still suck with survivor too much to reach rank 1. I Believe I haven't gotten higher than rank 5 with survivor.

    Keep in mind when you're basing things from a viewpoint like True3Ta1ent, he can post only his best games on his youtube if he wanted. I''m not saying he's not good, I actually think he's very good. However someone could slaughter 1/100 games and just post those "1" games he does good and you'd think wow he's amazing and killer MUST be strong. When in reality he just doesn't post the majority of them that went badly.

    I also think peoples view points on balance change significantly once they've been regularly playing at rank 1 on both sides for quite a while and have a good bit of hours under them. Most the people that think killers are too strong or even that the games balanced just only play survivor or killer at a low rank where anyone can slaughter.

    Yeah like I said I haven't gotten that much experience yet with this game, especially at rank 1. I'm just voicing my personal opinion, but i know that I might be wrong about certain stuff. Balance is always a hard thing to get right.
    I do believe though that especially because of add ons, this game could never become perfectly balanced or become a properly competitive game. The power that certain add ons or items enable in this game can make such a difference.

    Regarding true3ta1ent, I am aware that he doesn't post every match of him, and that there are definitely matches where he loses quite bad. In fact, he has occasionally posted such a video of him losing as well. It's just that I've seen certain matches of him where just from watching I thought that the survivors in those matches were playing optimally, couldn't really have played much better, and yet he still won. That was the point I was trying to make. To me he proved that you can even win against almost perfectly organized survivor teams if you have a really good game, and a bit of luck maybe. Of course i myself am nowhere near as good as he is.

    He did say though that he plays 2 and a half hours of killer daily, so I do believe he uploads the majority of his matches to youtube. But I'm sure there have been matches that didn't go well for him that he didn't upload, because nobody wants to watch a 4 minute gen rush match.

    I actually think the majority of them that he slaughters that the survivors just played bad. Exceptions obviously being with killers like nurse/billy/huntress. Using something like the trapper against a very good group you just aren't winning. Killers like the trapper there's just only so much you can be skill full with and the ceiling is low.
    Also, of course the game isn't going to be balanced for things like very-rare/ultra-rare addons. You have a limited amount of them and they aren't common, they're supposed to be an exception to the norm.
    I'm just saying that whether you win or lose has a lot less to do with you as the killer and a lot more to do with if the survivors messed up. That is barring some odd exceptions like nurse/ultra-rares/etc.

    Understandable. It's true that certain killers really could us some buffs, Trapper is one of them.
    Although to be fair someone like trapper is also a bit dependent on rng. But yeah low tier killers definitely need some help, especially Freddy.

    But then again maybe it would be easier to just buff them individually to the level of billy or the clown. Because a general buff to all killers always has the disadvantage that you can't consider the different power levels of the individual killers, overbuffing killers that are already strong. Like Nurse, who in my eyes can already be seen as a bit overpowered, especially with certain add ons that can make her almost brokenly overpowered.

    Personally, just from what i've seen and experienced, Hillbilly, Hag or maybe even the clown or huntress have the perfect balance right now. But like I said I don't have that much experience yet so my opinion might change a bit in the future.

  • Bravo0413 Bravo0413
    SIX said:

    This isn't a competitive game, people play this from time to time, with their friends/or solo for fun, not actually caring if it's balanced for higher ranks since they won't even bother with it, casual players

    Casual players 90%
    Pro/Vets or whatever 10%

    I also wouldn't give 2 flying ######### about the 10% since they're not the majority, they're not the one's who keep the game alive and bringing income

    That's how it is

    See this is where you're wrong.... a decent amount of casuals or common players would leave this game if say Noob3, monto, hybrid all 3 are hardcore vets who combined have over 10k hours and they have a massive following which is still growing and with their audience growing the game grows.. so if they decide to say hey dbd is crap im playing this their followers (atleast a good amount of them would) would stop playing and move to something else.... DBD grows through other players/ streamers its not like COD where commercials spread the word and intrigue custumers into buying the game nore is it big enough for that... so to say that casuals wouldnt care if vets left is false... another thing this game has done nothing but grown with all the balance changes that it's made that has done nothing but helped red rank players (killers).... its made the game more appealing to actual gamers rather then the weekly casual 
  • Master Master
    WhateverIGuess said:

    @ad19970 said:

    @WhateverIGuess said:
    Are you out of your mind? Adressing actual problems of the game? NICE MEME, I think I'd rather nerf vaulting even more because you know, that was a huge problem apparently.

    Was that really a nerf though? I mean just personally I barely notice a difference. I feel like they just made that to make slow and fast vaulting more conistent, since there were certain windows survivors could normally just slow vault through, yet occasionally they were able to fast vault through them which wasn't supposed to happen I guess. Not sure about that though.

    Some vaults are impossible to fast vault now. You had to position yourself very well to actually get a fast vault but now it is just straight up impossible.

    Of course, it's not a game-breaking nerf but it's 100% unnecessary and just makes survivor gameplay more unfun for literally no reason.

    Yes at certain infinites (I have noticed two so far) you can't fast vault anymore 
    Yes I know that for somesurvivors not being able to easily loop an infinite is unfun 
  • Master Master
    WhateverIGuess said:

    @Master said:
    WhateverIGuess said:

    @ad19970 said:

     @WhateverIGuess said:

    Are you out of your mind? Adressing actual problems of the game? NICE MEME, I think I'd rather nerf vaulting even more because you know, that was a huge problem apparently.

    Was that really a nerf though? I mean just personally I barely notice a difference. I feel like they just made that to make slow and fast vaulting more conistent, since there were certain windows survivors could normally just slow vault through, yet occasionally they were able to fast vault through them which wasn't supposed to happen I guess. Not sure about that though.

    Some vaults are impossible to fast vault now. You had to position yourself very well to actually get a fast vault but now it is just straight up impossible.

    Of course, it's not a game-breaking nerf but it's 100% unnecessary and just makes survivor gameplay more unfun for literally no reason.

    Yes at certain infinites (I have noticed two so far) you can't fast vault anymore 
    Yes I know that for somesurvivors not being able to easily loop an infinite is unfun 

    I'm not talking about infinites, so before you get all killer main white knight on me, maybe you should chill out.

    As far as I know, the only windows you cant fast vault anymore are those at the infinites.

    If you noticed any other windows that were made to medium-windows with the latest change, feel free to elaborate. As a killer it is quite important to know whether a survivor can fast or only medium vault a window, so I would be thankful if you show me other windows where you can only medium vault such that I can improve :wink:

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