Why were moris gutted for being toxic, but keys are unchanged?
If nobody else is gonna talk about it, I will.
We all remember when moris got nerfed, when they got a +1 hook requirement. And you know, it was mostly about people's feelings getting hurt, because killers could spam moris or whatever, and that was "toxic". So the nerf was in whole or in part based off of a feeling*. And people had often viewed moris and keys as equivalents, because they were both unfair, no-skill shortcut mechanics. They are equivalents no longer, because moris are now just pretty animations that take longer than simply hooking someone a third time.
So why haven't keys been nerfed? They're used to be toxic. Survivors stand on hatch and tbag like they did something special, knowing there's nothing the killer can even do at that point, and then they press their "I win" button in the killer's face and escape. That hurts the killer's feelings*, so that's enough reason for them to nerfed into unusability, right? Following the logic that's been set in place, keys should be basically never seen in standard play right now, right?
Oh what? Nothing happened to them after all this time?
Oh what? They still open hatch instantaneously?
Oh what? (I can go on, but you get the picture).
Why the double standards?
Comments
If you have bad luck with survivors bringing keys and dropping them, that doesn't negate that Franklin's causes players to drop their items and drain charges from said items, which keys now require to unlock hatch.
But that's the problem. It does negate Franklin's. Franklin's can't cause an item that's not in the survivors hand to drop and drain charges. therefor the key will have all it's charges and can be used to open the hatch. Negating Franklins is exactly why i am saying Franklins isn't a counter.
A counter that can be negated 100% of the time is not a counter. There is nothing left to say
Sure if survivors don't know this trick it can work. But with that logic you don't need counterplay. The survivor player could be new and not know what a key is for.
If it's a totally different argument then why did you bring it up?
I am talking about fun cause that's what the problem with keys is. A match with a key can't be fun cause you either completly stomp them so the key doesn't matter, they completly stomp you and the key didn't matter or you were equally skilled and the match will suddenly end when the exciting part starts. My problem with keys is that a match with a key will always be unfun for somebody
Then by that logic, there's very few counters in the game at all. You can wait out BT and DS and break hex totems, so those aren't counters either. We're just not going to agree, so it's a good idea to drop it like you said.
Not to jump back into that topic immediately after saying we shouldn't (lol), but I sort of have to to answer this part. I brought up those perks to challenge the idea that counterplay is only counterplay when it's successful. I agree with you that mass slugging is a counter to key, but mass slugging has its own counterplay which directly contradicts your opinion on that. Correct me if I'm wrong.
It's a totally different topic because we're essentially talking about two different things. I'm arguing that in general, any perk or gameplay style that has opposing synergy with another perk or gameplay style is counterplay. You're talking about situational applications of them, which I wasn't trying to get into.
I get the point about fun, but that's too far removed from what we were talking about. If we get onto that topic, we can drift off into a myriad of different things that are all subjective in the end.
The thing about the counter to mass slugging is that it has a price. Either you lose a healthstate with no mither. you can only pick yourself up once with unbreakabill. You are relying on your opponent to have a hex with soulguard or you have to rely on your teammates with things like WGLF and other speedy heal perks by which you group up and kinda enables mass slugging.
Well in theory Franklin's does count as a counter, i just can't count it as a counter cause it's countered to easilly by dropping the thing you are counting to counter.
I'll meet you in the middle and say it's a unreliable counter
I get that. I'm not saying every counter is viable in every situation or that they always work out, but they do exist is all.
What the devs say and what the devs do are two different, completely unrelated, things.