Twins change

So what's one of the biggest problem with twins? The ability to camp. It was problem since beginning and was nerfed a few times.

How can we solve that? You introduced AI to the game as nemesis zombies. What if, when twins swap, the inactive twin starts SLOWLY moving towards active twin. Or maybe it would only be Charlotte going after victor.

From the lore we learn:

A pair of conjoined twins, Charlotte and Victor Deshayes formed an emotional bond like none other. [...]

And further on:

[...] Victor spasmed and flailed from her chest, a cloud of fog encompassing him. Before she could react, he spilled from her in a bloody puddle, landing on the snow and running.

Pulling herself from the edge of death, she gave chase. Calling his name, she ran through the forest until her legs could hardly carry her, until finally, within her view, was Victor, sitting at the edge of a thick fog. 

It would really fit lore-wise and would fix the twins gameplay a bit. Specially the part, where they leave Charlotte on top of the basement and swap as soon as survivor is unhooked.

Comments

  • Will they still try to attack survivors they encounter?

  • Well, she could and she could not. Both would make sense, depending on if we want to make twins stronger or not.

    On one hand, it's a killer, so she could obviously hit nearby survivor, when going after victor, but on the other hand, lore-wise, she could hard tunnel on getting back to victor, ignoring everything in sight.

    What i want to deal with, is ability to camp the hooked survivor AND apply map pressure at the same time. If bubba decides to facecamp someone or low proximity camp, he gives up map pressure and other survivors can work on gens. If hags does it, same thing, even if she traps the hook, she has to stay somewhat low proximity to be able to teleport. Twins on the other hand, can leave Charlotte as close as it's possible to the hook, while still applying tons of pressure with really mobile Victor. And when unhook happens, they can swap right back, unlike for example demodoggo, who has to place portal / traverse his dimension. 

  • @Maperson said:

    They are already way to punishing, no thanks

    Could you please elaborate your point a bit? You think Charlotte going after victor, leaving the hook, so making unhook safer, would be too strong? Or her attacking on her way? As I said, she doesn't have to attack, she can just go after victor. I don't want to make them needlessly stronger, I only want to remove ability to simultaneously camping AND applying map pressure. 

    While I understand that her walking after Victor would make it easier for Twins player to pick up survivor after downing them with Victor, I still believe that it's better to be that way rather than allowing them to camp objectives like it happens now. 

    The thing that i hate specially now is leaving Charlotte on top of the basement. If you don't have DS or other player does not have BT, you are gone. Never leaving basement. And it's fine, camping in viable strategy, thats what devs said, but Twins player gets to apply pressure far away at same time, which in my honest idea is not that fine. Camping should come at cost of no map pressure.

  • Well, maybe i lack experience as Twins player. But have played against multiple rank 1 twins and they would always go with same strategy, leaving Charlotte next to the hook or on top of basement, while hunting survivors with Victor. And they got their 4k most of the time, making it pain to play against. The simultaneous hook camping and applying map pressure was just too oppressive in every of this games. 

    If they happen to be too weak after such change as i proposed, we could sure think about buffing them in other field. My idea is to shift them away from camping game style, into more interactive style, and recently added AI in RE chapter could make it possible.

  • @Kumakx said:

    Well, she could and she could not. Both would make sense, depending on if we want to make twins stronger or not.

    On one hand, it's a killer, so she could obviously hit nearby survivor, when going after victor, but on the other hand, lore-wise, she could hard tunnel on getting back to victor, ignoring everything in sight.

    What i want to deal with, is ability to camp the hooked survivor AND apply map pressure at the same time. If bubba decides to facecamp someone or low proximity camp, he gives up map pressure and other survivors can work on gens. If hags does it, same thing, even if she traps the hook, she has to stay somewhat low proximity to be able to teleport. Twins on the other hand, can leave Charlotte as close as it's possible to the hook, while still applying tons of pressure with really mobile Victor. And when unhook happens, they can swap right back, unlike for example demodoggo, who has to place portal / traverse his dimension. 

    You're already removing their camping potential which is arguably one of the stronger parts of their kit so honestly, just make either of them attack survivors they encounter

  • @Kumakx said:

    So what's one of the biggest problem with twins? The ability to camp. It was problem since beginning and was nerfed a few times.

    How can we solve that? You introduced AI to the game as nemesis zombies. What if, when twins swap, the inactive twin starts SLOWLY moving towards active twin. Or maybe it would only be Charlotte going after victor.

    From the lore we learn:

    A pair of conjoined twins, Charlotte and Victor Deshayes formed an emotional bond like none other. [...]

    And further on:

    [...] Victor spasmed and flailed from her chest, a cloud of fog encompassing him. Before she could react, he spilled from her in a bloody puddle, landing on the snow and running.

    Pulling herself from the edge of death, she gave chase. Calling his name, she ran through the forest until her legs could hardly carry her, until finally, within her view, was Victor, sitting at the edge of a thick fog. 

    It would really fit lore-wise and would fix the twins gameplay a bit. Specially the part, where they leave Charlotte on top of the basement and swap as soon as survivor is unhooked.

    No I'd rather have them stay still...

  • @Saltjar34 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2227955#Comment_2227955

    You're already removing their camping potential which is arguably one of the stronger parts of their kit so honestly, just make either of them attack survivors they encounter

    Yup, I would love to see the part of them that is annoying to play against get reworked. Could be paired with some buffs, because why not. If you all say they would be too weak after such a change.

    How come? Is it fun to get tunneled right off the hook, while other survivors can't work on gens too well, because victor is applying pressure to them?

  • @Kumakx said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231852#Comment_2231852

    Yup, I would love to see the part of them that is annoying to play against get reworked. Could be paired with some buffs, because why not. If you all say they would be too weak after such a change.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2231889#Comment_2231889

    How come? Is it fun to get tunneled right off the hook, while other survivors can't work on gens too well, because victor is applying pressure to them?

    You know that they have to be a huge distance from the hook right?

  • @IlliterateGenocide said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2232585#Comment_2232585

    You know that they have to be a huge distance from the hook right?

    You know you can leave Charlotte on top of basement stairs when survivor is hooked in the basement? That's huge distance?

    Also if Charlotte follows Victor, it gives them advantage:

    1. If you attacked healthy survivor with Victor, Charlotte can initiate chase almost RIGHT AWAY.
    2. If you downed injured survivor, Charlotte can pick them up almost RIGHT AWAY, giving survivors less time to heal downed survivor.

    I really don't think it makes them weaker, it just removes camping potential. We could even make Charlotte break pallets if they are in her way and swing on survivors in the way.

    Now, what happens if player switches to Victor AND brings Charlotte (following Victor) back to hook? It's no different from bubba facecamping. Costs map pressure.

  • @Kumakx said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233538#Comment_2233538

    You know you can leave Charlotte on top of basement stairs when survivor is hooked in the basement? That's huge distance?

    Also if Charlotte follows Victor, it gives them advantage:

    1. If you attacked healthy survivor with Victor, Charlotte can initiate chase almost RIGHT AWAY.
    2. If you downed injured survivor, Charlotte can pick them up almost RIGHT AWAY, giving survivors less time to heal downed survivor.

    I really don't think it makes them weaker, it just removes camping potential. We could even make Charlotte break pallets if they are in her way and swing on survivors in the way.

    Now, what happens if player switches to Victor AND brings Charlotte (following Victor) back to hook? It's no different from bubba facecamping. Costs map pressure.

    so you just want to nerf a killer because you find them annoying?

  • @IlliterateGenocide said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233611#Comment_2233611

    so you just want to nerf a killer because you find them annoying?

    I still don't think it would be nerf, but sure. I dont want to rework it because its ANNOYING, I believe, that even tho camping is viable strategy, it should come at cost of losing map pressure. That's what I don't like, twin player can soft-camp AND pressure any part of map at the same time. So point of my idea is to change that, while not making them necessarily weaker and I believe, with my post above, I explained why in my opinion they wouldn't actually get weaker. If this change was implemented, we could ever roll back some of the earlier nerfs. You know, this change could be just the beginning of, so-called, twins rework. 

    Is it shocking to you, that people in this part of the forum suggest ideas for such changes? Isn't that what this forum is about? Find what's annoying / unbalanced in game, think about idea on how to change it, post the idea and discuss it with other members. I'm providing my point on the change, yet all i hear from you is "they will be too weak". No further explanation. Can you please elaborate, why they would be weaker necessary?

    You know, after all it's just a game. IT SHOULD be enjoyable and not annoying. But maybe i just have wrong take on that.

  • @Kumakx said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233648#Comment_2233648

    I still don't think it would be nerf, but sure. I dont want to rework it because its ANNOYING, I believe, that even tho camping is viable strategy, it should come at cost of losing map pressure. That's what I don't like, twin player can soft-camp AND pressure any part of map at the same time. So point of my idea is to change that, while not making them necessarily weaker and I believe, with my post above, I explained why in my opinion they wouldn't actually get weaker. If this change was implemented, we could ever roll back some of the earlier nerfs. You know, this change could be just the beginning of, so-called, twins rework. 

    Is it shocking to you, that people in this part of the forum suggest ideas for such changes? Isn't that what this forum is about? Find what's annoying / unbalanced in game, think about idea on how to change it, post the idea and discuss it with other members. I'm providing my point on the change, yet all i hear from you is "they will be too weak". No further explanation. Can you please elaborate, why they would be weaker necessary?

    You know, after all it's just a game. IT SHOULD be enjoyable and not annoying. But maybe i just have wrong take on that.

    it would def be a nerf, one of the main uses of there power is to be at multiple points at a time in the map, you seem to complain a lot about there camping but hag is worse! there power is used to cut people off, they cant do that if there just walk towards each other and dont even attack other survivors

  • @IlliterateGenocide said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233721#Comment_2233721

    it would def be a nerf, one of the main uses of there power is to be at multiple points at a time in the map, you seem to complain a lot about there camping but hag is worse! there power is used to cut people off, they cant do that if there just walk towards each other and dont even attack other survivors

    I agree with this. Getting rid of their ability to be at 2 places at once would probably be the worst. For all I care they could destroy victor after a time limit if he is by the hook for too long. Like maybe double the timer for him to destroy himself. Idk but camping isn't even their best ability so more ways to nerf that and more ways to improve their overall chase ability is a win and my book

  • However, if they nerf his camping they should buff other parts of their kit that can be lackluster to insentivise people to not. Such as maybe reverting the latest nerf. Or maybe being able do something extra with Charlotte

  • @TruffleTurtle said:

    However, if they nerf his camping they should buff other parts of their kit that can be lackluster to insentivise people to not. Such as maybe reverting the latest nerf. Or maybe being able do something extra with Charlotte

    yeah also the problem i see is , do most twins even camp??? i rarely see a twins and when i do they allmost never camp

  • @IlliterateGenocide said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2233903#Comment_2233903

    yeah also the problem i see is , do most twins even camp??? i rarely see a twins and when i do they allmost never camp

    I surely don't and from what I've seen people who do camp are fairly new to the Twins because it is just very inefficient and more annoying if anything. But yea most don't

    People who say twins r only good for camping don't know how to play twins