Uncounterable Gameplay is the reason the community is toxic, and it is completely BVHR's fault
What it says in the title. There are a lot of things in the game that have limited to no counter, and it leads to what causes the game to become so toxic. It is basically an example of Paul Piff's Monopoly experiment; when you give one side a distinct advantage over another one in Monopoly, the side with the advantage progressively becomes more arrogant. If you ask the sides why they won/lost, the side who was at a disadvantage will blame the disadvantage, while the side winning due to advantage will say they won because of skill.
BHVR was done better at addressing general issues, but the biggest issues remain things that have absolutely no counterplay. And no, BHVR, a perk is not counterplay. A single killer ability is not counterplay.
Hackers and Bug abusers need to be dealt with more harshly, and more anti-cheating methods need to be in place. A streamer I watch literally had a cheater in the game who said, "I don't care, I can just rebuy the game." It is way too easy to hack, and there is too little done about it. While a more frequently abused issue, and even less done about it, but less disruptive in its play, there are also a lot of people who learn about bugs and abuse them. However, in all my years playing DbD, the only people who were ever actually punished for bug abuse were Legion players who exploited the old dual knives add ons. There needs to be a harder crack down on those who use exploits of any kind. This is a multiplayer game, so it is a zero sum situation. Their exploits take away from someone else.
At every junction, perk, and map design, the question needs to be 'does this allow or stop gameplay?' 2-3 God PALLETS are okay, but the way that there are God Loops involving vaults is not, especially ones that cause you to lose line of sight and chase, because there is no way to stop that, besides Bamboozle. Requiring a perk to have any level of counterplay should never be a thing, because it creates meta perks and demands singular ways to play to hotfix the issues that are being left in the game.
The existence of God loops affects toxicity in the game. Toxic Survivors are way more likely to do things like t-bag or flashlight click in locations they know you can't get them at. You don't see it if the tile has gameplay available, or against killers like Nurse or Spirit who could just appear on top of them. Toxic Survivors only do this stuff when they know they are invincible. But there should not BE enough times that someone is invincible that they are frequent enough to be a cultural group within a community.
A similar thing happens when survivors are have a key, and know where hatch is, or when they are at the exit gates. There is literally nothing a killer can do to stop them. They don't even have to bring in a key. They can find an item that, after a certain point in the game, can render them literally invincible. And once they reach that point, there is a massive amount of toxicity.
This is most apparent with SWFs, who can utilize hard to use perks and items with insane coordination that the game was not balanced around due to massive amounts of information. Last I went through the list, SWF is the equivalent of 12 different perks, bolsters the strength of 8 of them, removes the potency of 11 killer perks, and gives abilities that don't even exist in the game. There is so much power in SWF, that it is not uncommon to have 2-3 people harassing the killer at the same time, with only one person doing gens. So what do you do? Slug, Tunnel, and Camp. You will only get one, but because they have so many benefits, there is nothing you can do but try for one. Again, the killer is hotfixing it. And when you do, the SWFs get angry that anyone dies, because at their level of free power, they believe they are entitled for four man escapes every game. So, they get toxic.
At no point should there be completely uncounterable gameplay that makes you know you are invincible. The existence of this causes hot fixes into the game by the players cause as much of a problem. Decisive strike exists? Let's slug and leave survivors on the floor for minutes. A completely thrilling experience. Gens moving to fast? You know what slows down gameplay? Slugging. Not possible to get regression on gens because killer regression occurs at 1/4th the rate survivor progression does, and there are four survivors for a 1200-1600% difference? Tunneling does a great job of reducing the impact of that. Absolutely no counter play to escaping once the doors are open? Well, gonna camp the last hook to death, because there isn't anything else you can actually do. But because these are all things to balance things in the game that naturally are benefiting the privileged side, the community is toxic against these behaviors.
BHVR has been addressing this by giving general buffs to killers, but that isn't the right way to do it, because that also just causes some of the most powerful killers to become too oppressive. The focus needs to be on doing everything possible to remove elements that have no gameplay and no counterplay, rather than just general strength buffs to leave those things in but make it so you have things with no counterplay too, so everyone can just be ######### to each other.
Every time you leave something in, add something, or support something that is uncounterable, you are making your community more toxic.
Comments
It’s quite well said, but after playing this for four years I just don’t think the devs give a $#!& anymore. I mean the game is what, near 6 years old on pc? It’s life cycle isn’t likely to be 10-12 years. It already looks dated and plays worse. I wish things like you say would happen, I just really really don’t see it outside of a dbd 2
The worst part is how after they nerfed Ruin last year they were desperate to retain killers so they fixed some god loops and said they would fix others. Fast forward a year and they've never touched another god loop since and they even brought back the groaning storehouse window. Its always more lies, lies, lies. They'll say anything to shut people up or keep them hoping.
Had a 4 man red rank SWF as a rank 13 Killer last night. One was a streamer and I listened in. There’s a delay so it’s not cheating. The level of coordination is ridiculous and honestly game breaking. “Lead him over here and I’ll hit him with head on.” “Come over here and we will heal while so and so watches.” There’s nothing even the best of killers can do about this. Honestly, this game has gotten unfun for me. It’s terrible as Killer and boring as survivor cause survivor is so easy against a vast majority of killers.
I have been saying SWF should have handycaps for years now.
And penalise people for playing with their friends? Nah.
Buff solo survivors instead, then buff killers accordingly.
This will allow solo's a greater ability to coordinate with each other, bringing them closer to SWF levels.
Once SWF and Solo are closer in ability, then better balance can be achieved and you can see what needs to be buffed or nerfed. Likely gen speeds or early game objectives.
The bias is so dang real. How can you make a thread with that title, without addressing anything broken on the killer side of things?
This solution isn't working because it's been 4 years since devs promised such and nothing has been really done
What can killers do that has absolutely no counter?
To name a few off the top of my head:
I can edit this to add more as they come to mind, if you want.. think that's a good start though.
This solution hasn't been tried...
And it wouldn't.
...why not?
Seems like a pointless argument of futility. "They haven't bothered to do it yet so they never will you might as well give up."
In which, case, why are you here?
Just get lost, I'm not going to bother arguing with you since it's pointless to prove something to people seriously thinking that if devs promised something 4 years ago and still haven't done anything to fulfill that promise, then they will do it later.
I mean, you're the one who has given up on the game, so I'd have to wonder why you haven't got lost yet? Rubbing salt into your wounds?
There are actually tells and things you can do against spirits standing still. Grass moves, for example. I manage to consistently fool spirits. A lot of survivors who are good at deceptive movement do. It isn't chance and it isn't uncounterable if people consistently manage to counter it. This is just an example of a killer whose counter play isn't 'run to a pallet', it involves mind games and paying attention to your surroundings.
Gen rush. You are a four man team, not a one man team. It is completely within your power to force them to lose. However, for the individual, I will give you that this one is a good example of something that makes them completely helpless, and I completely agree that this is toxic and should be looked at.
Gen rush. You are a four man team, not a one man team. It is completely within your power to force them to lose. This one CAN be done, but it requires coordination, risk, and is difficult.
Flashlights are not a necessary part of the game. Your items not being usable is not the same as an enemy being uncounterable.
You don't need a perk to heal against Plague. You use her pools or deal with being injured all game. Your perks/items not being optimal or usable is not the same as the enemy being uncounterable.
Only the Pig one is completely actually 'Uncounterable'. An action, besides working on gens or opening exit gates, being ineffective against a specific killer or perk is not uncounterable, because it isn't required to win. Something being difficult isn't uncounterable or unplayable. I would even say if the other survivors can take action to counter it, even if the targetted survivor can't, it isn't uncounterable, you just need your team to counter it. It is a team game. However, in the cases where the individual has no gameplay at all, such as the Pig example, it would breed the same toxicity. Uncounterable is "I have sight on the killer at all times, so they cannot mind game. They have to run in the circle until I drop the pallet, or leave and have the pallet stay till next time. Once it is dropped, there is nothing they can do to get me. There is absolutely nothing they can do to get a hit at this pallet if I do not completely misplay it." Several pallets in The Game, for example, are uncounterable and unplayable. The ones outside of and above the bathroom, for example, are uncounterable. The one in the corner with the squarish staircase leading down is uncounterable. It is "The killer closed the hatch, I didn't come in with a key, but I got one in a chest, so I get hatch anyway. Even if they see me at hatch, there are no actions they can take."
I would also say that some areas on Haddonfield with Trapper Traps are pseudo uncounterable, except you can take alternative routes if you know it is there. However, survivors get to dictate the path more than killers do; no matter how optimally my traps are placed as a Trapper, you can choose to run an unoptimal path and negate them. A Trapper cannot force you to step in a trap.