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Make Wiggle/Struggle hold button instead of spam

TheZuck TheZuck
in Feedback and Suggestions

Pretty much the title. I think that instead of spamming space or adadad, people should just hold down a key to wiggle or struggle. It doesnt make the game more fun to spam these keys in my opinion.

It seems a bit misleading to imply that speed of wiggle or struggle matters by spamming. I have heard of many people breaking controllers or keyboards(probably a really low percentage, but still.) because the game never lets you in on this.

I dont really see any downside to a system like this, it reduces wear on hardware and gives peoples fingers a rest, while not needing to use macros.


I would like to see a system where spamming speed would matter, but thats a whole other discussion, since apparently the anticheat is incapable of stopping cheats that would abuse that.



Tl;dr Turn wiggle/struggle into hold keys instead of spam keys

Comments

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    How about a feature where you hold a button for a certain length of time and the game wins itself for you?

  • AggressiveFTW AggressiveFTW

    @Mastermind said:

    How about a feature where you hold a button for a certain length of time and the game wins itself for you?

    I hate people like you who are sarcastic all the time. His idea was great IMO.

  • bm33 bm33

    I've died SO many times during struggle due to something triggering an FPS drop in the middle. Skill checks wouldn't help because FPS drops screw those up. Something like "hold x to stop struggling" would be amazing so I stop dying thanks to a gen being completed or NOED kicking in.

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @AggressiveFTW said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845247#Comment_1845247

    Why are you sarcastic about this? His idea was great IMO.

    Because struggling is meant to be struggling. As in requiring effort. You mess up the timing, you die. I'd love to see someone mess up on holding down a button...

    Secondly wiggling. Wiggling under default circumstances takes a certain amount of time which the killer has guaranteed. Apart from perks, the player's inefficiency adds to this time and it can lead to a hook that wouldn't have been possible of the survivor had been better.

    Same way how if you get good at hitting great skill checks, you can progress a gen faster, shaving off the expected time till a gen completes by an overall short amount of time.

    All of these mechanics add controlled randomness while keeping it within boundaries small enough so that it's not entirely up to RNG. Unlike escaping trapper traps for example, where there aren't small alterations. The survivor can either escape literally faster than it'd take them to disarm the trap or spend half a decade stuck there. And the massive difference between outcomes ruins it's reliability.

  • Teacyn Teacyn

    @Mastermind said:

    How about a feature where you hold a button for a certain length of time and the game wins itself for you?

    I fail to see how somebody asking for an accessibility improvement makes the game easier. Mashing/tilting to struggle is not hard at all, but it produces needless wear on control peripherals and can easily lead to hand soreness or possibly even injury. I have a friend with minor carpal tunnel syndrome, and he had to set up a special control scheme so that he can mash with his other hand even though it's really not in an ideal location and causes him to die on hook sometimes, because doing it with his dominant hand causes intense pain.

    In addition, like mentioned, it's even worse if you have low FPS or lag spikes. The game can just not accept a singular input while struggling and then you're dead if you weren't mashing fast enough. It's stupid and adds nothing to the game. At least with the Cage skill checks there's actually an element of skill to it, rather than senseless mashing.

  • Milo Milo

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845250#Comment_1845250

    Because struggling is meant to be struggling. As in requiring effort. You mess up the timing, you die. I'd love to see someone mess up on holding down a button...

    Secondly wiggling. Wiggling under default circumstances takes a certain amount of time which the killer has guaranteed. Apart from perks, the player's inefficiency adds to this time and it can lead to a hook that wouldn't have been possible of the survivor had been better.

    Same way how if you get good at hitting great skill checks, you can progress a gen faster, shaving off the expected time till a gen completes by an overall short amount of time.

    All of these mechanics add controlled randomness while keeping it within boundaries small enough so that it's not entirely up to RNG. Unlike escaping trapper traps for example, where there aren't small alterations. The survivor can either escape literally faster than it'd take them to disarm the trap or spend half a decade stuck there. And the massive difference between outcomes ruins it's reliability.

    There's a thin boundary where interactions are needed and not.

    Making (atleast struggling) automatic removes these issues:

    • Dying because of a lag-drop
    • Dying because you misjudged the timing once.
    • Potential break of equipment
    • "finger/hand" fatigue

    And even making these skillcheck based would remove atleast 3 of those as an alternative. Similiarly to Pyramid Head's Cages.

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @Milo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845265#Comment_1845265

    There's a thin boundary where interactions are needed and not.

    Making (atleast struggling) automatic removes these issues:

    • Dying because of a lag-drop
    • Dying because you misjudged the timing once.
    • Potential break of equipment
    • "finger/hand" fatigue

    And even making these skillcheck based would remove atleast 3 of those as an alternative. Similiarly to Pyramid Head's Cages.

    Struggling and wiggling has a purpose and:

    1. Get better internet. Any online game has the requirement of an internet connection and if you don't have it, well too bad.
    2. The timing is very lenient already. Apart from that, everyone will tell you to put struggling on the scroll wheel.
    3. Maybe normally press the button with a finger instead of bashing it with a hammer like an enraged gorilla.
    4. If you have fatigue, you should take a break as with literally any activity in the world. That's just you knowingly straining yourself.
  • AggressiveFTW AggressiveFTW

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845270#Comment_1845270

    Struggling and wiggling has a purpose and:

    1. Get better internet. Any online game has the requirement of an internet connection and if you don't have it, well too bad.
    2. The timing is very lenient already. Apart from that, everyone will tell you to put struggling on the scroll wheel.
    3. Maybe normally press the button with a finger instead of bashing it with a hammer like an enraged gorilla.
    4. If you have fatigue, you should take a break as with literally any activity in the world. That's just you knowingly straining yourself.

    I'm not even going to comment on every one of your points. But your first point, it doesn't have to do with the internet. It can be that you have a bad PC so your GAME lags, has nothing to do with your internet and connection.

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @AggressiveFTW said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845290#Comment_1845290

    I'm not even going to comment on every one of your points. But your first point, it doesn't have to do with the internet. It can be that you have a bad PC so your GAME lags, has nothing to do with your internet and connection.

    So your computer can't run a game well and you're trying to complain that the game should compensate mechanically for you not having a good enough computer instead of you actually getting better components. Yup, that mentality will get you reaaaal far in life.

  • Teacyn Teacyn

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845270#Comment_1845270

    Struggling and wiggling has a purpose and:

    1. Get better internet. Any online game has the requirement of an internet connection and if you don't have it, well too bad.
    2. The timing is very lenient already. Apart from that, everyone will tell you to put struggling on the scroll wheel.
    3. Maybe normally press the button with a finger instead of bashing it with a hammer like an enraged gorilla.
    4. If you have fatigue, you should take a break as with literally any activity in the world. That's just you knowingly straining yourself.
    1. You say this like it's something people can just, do. Maybe in some countries, but in most of the US and many other countries you literally have one internet provider option, and if you're not happy with them your only other option is to not have internet (which isn't a real option). You're passing the blame for a game issue onto players to sort out themselves, when it could easily be resolved in the game itself.
    2. Same thing here. I shouldn't need to rebind an action to the scroll wheel of all things, which isn't a very intuitive binding, when the action can just be made less obtrusive on its original key. Binding it to the scroll wheel completely trivializes the mashing anyway, so it makes literally no difference if it was just removed.
    3. I highly doubt people are "bashing it like a gorilla", unless they have other anger issues, in which case this is probably not the game for them.
    4. There is a difference between fatigue resulting from play sessions going on too long and fatigue resulting directly from something within the game itself. The former is natural, and happens with any kind of medium-high intensity game. The latter is usually a sign of a poorly designed interaction or mechanic, as it causes unneeded extra strain on users. Some games intentionally include mechanics like this for narrative purposes, but for DbD, which is a generally competitive game that puts gameplay over what little narrative there is, it has no place.
  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @Teacyn said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845290#Comment_1845290

    1. You say this like it's something people can just, do. Maybe in some countries, but in most of the US and many other countries you literally have one internet provider option, and if you're not happy with them your only other option is to not have internet (which isn't a real option). You're passing the blame for a game issue onto players to sort out themselves, when it could easily be resolved in the game itself.
    2. Same thing here. I shouldn't need to rebind an action to the scroll wheel of all things, which isn't a very intuitive binding, when the action can just be made less obtrusive on its original key. Binding it to the scroll wheel completely trivializes the mashing anyway, so it makes literally no difference if it was just removed.
    3. I highly doubt people are "bashing it like a gorilla", unless they have other anger issues, in which case this is probably not the game for them.
    4. There is a difference between fatigue resulting from play sessions going on too long and fatigue resulting directly from something within the game itself. The former is natural, and happens with any kind of medium-high intensity game. The latter is usually a sign of a poorly designed interaction or mechanic, as it causes unneeded extra strain on users. Some games intentionally include mechanics like this for narrative purposes, but for DbD, which is a generally competitive game that puts gameplay over what little narrative there is, it has no place.
    1. I have the worst internet of anyone I know and I have never ran into a lag issue outside of being put in an American match, but that's obvious since they're playing from across the globe. And if you have no choice on the ISP then you have found a business opportunity.
    2. Scroll wheel doesn't trivialize anything. It makes it easier because a scroll puts it many more inputs in a single slow scroll than a single button press does. But you still have the time it takes you to reset your finger position on the wheel. That's the time you can still F up on if you're bad with timing.
    3. Well if they're not, then they're doing exactly what the device they are using was manufactured to be used to. Which means the wear is so miniscule, if any actual damage occurs, you're likely using an item that has years extensive use on it.
    4. You're perfectly free to not wiggle or struggle in the game. Noone is forcing you to do so. As a survivor, if you die, you can move on to the next game immediately or watch the game via spectator. If you don't want to die, then metaphorically get off your ass and do something about it. The killer is already at a disadvantage in general and people here are trying to make the disadvantage even greater.
  • Milo Milo

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845328#Comment_1845328

    1. I have the worst internet of anyone I know and I have never ran into a lag issue outside of being put in an American match, but that's obvious since they're playing from across the globe. And if you have no choice on the ISP then you have found a business opportunity.
    2. Scroll wheel doesn't trivialize anything. It makes it easier because a scroll puts it many more inputs in a single slow scroll than a single button press does. But you still have the time it takes you to reset your finger position on the wheel. That's the time you can still F up on if you're bad with timing.
    3. Well if they're not, then they're doing exactly what the device they are using was manufactured to be used to. Which means the wear is so miniscule, if any actual damage occurs, you're likely using an item that has years extensive use on it.
    4. You're perfectly free to not wiggle or struggle in the game. Noone is forcing you to do so. As a survivor, if you die, you can move on to the next game immediately or watch the game via spectator. If you don't want to die, then metaphorically get off your ass and do something about it. The killer is already at a disadvantage in general and people here are trying to make the disadvantage even greater.

    Okay i'm just curious - How would auto struggle disadvantage the killer?

  • TheZuck TheZuck

    Im honestly surprised anyone would disagree with this. I think some exist on the forums just to argue. Mastermind you are entitled to your own opinion, but saying "gitgud"(effectively) to a discussion isnt the way to express that. You gave a little bit of meaningful conversation to wiggling, then told others to stop being lazy, get good internet, etc.

    Vague comments like "this puts killers at a disadvantage" doesnt tell us why. I think the discussion would look more meaningful if we had some examples.

    Also the game lagging from certain effects triggering is a dbd specific thing. The game isnt as optimized as a lot other games, so a noed proc killing someone on hook is entirely possible. Its unfortunate, but blaming the player or their pc for that isnt really fair.

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @Milo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845355#Comment_1845355

    Okay i'm just curious - How would auto struggle disadvantage the killer?

    The killer is by default at a disadvantage because that's how asymmetric multiplayer goes. If everyone in the game is of equal ability, the survivors will win. (Especially if you add the typical 3rd party VoIP among teaming survivors into the mix.)

    If you happen to miss the timing, you died and the killer's game just became that much easier. A killer has to worry about remaining generators generators along with the hooked survivor locations, which probably have at least one survivor going to help them and any other survivors are probably doing gens. It happens very rarely if ever and how exactly do you expect to miss a button hold?

    Additionally, if you realistically have no way failing at struggling, what's the point of the second stage then? For you to hang around casually without the typical escape prompts you had on stage 1? With literally no threat whatsoever?

  • Caleegi Caleegi

    Omg yes pls. I get carpal tunnel in both of my wrists and when I have to struggle it ######### sucks, i have to try switch between both my wrists when i start getting intense pains in one of them. I find it pretty ######### of people to say 'oh take a break then' like i want to play a game and i can play games but the struggling causes me to be in pain and others it seems, i am sure if you had to experience it, you would then care. Struggling everybody can do generally and tbh isn't really an important game mechanic. Also, it damages hardware. It doesn't really damage keyboard and mouse but it damages controllers badly, idk about you guys but i don't want to be buying a controller every month because of a struggling game mechanic. And yes you may then say 'don't struggle as hard' but its still gonna break eventually or 'don't struggle at all' which then is taking that option away from the player.

    I don't find it that important for the killers side either, i mean, you get dropped just a little chase unless you're good then back on the hook you go, not really that bad.

  • AbstractSaucing AbstractSaucing

    This would be great! I can't tell you how may times I've died from my hands locking up and not being able to button mash. A hold wiggle would be amazing too and save my palms from rug burn off my thumb stick

  • JPLongstreet JPLongstreet

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845270#Comment_1845270

    Struggling and wiggling has a purpose and:

    1. Get better internet. Any online game has the requirement of an internet connection and if you don't have it, well too bad.
    2. The timing is very lenient already. Apart from that, everyone will tell you to put struggling on the scroll wheel.
    3. Maybe normally press the button with a finger instead of bashing it with a hammer like an enraged gorilla.
    4. If you have fatigue, you should take a break as with literally any activity in the world. That's just you knowingly straining yourself.

    Me and others on Xbox can die on hook while struggling whenever the frames drop. This can be caused by a gen popping nearby, sloppy being applied, exposed/NOED procting, Myers teiring up, Lithe and/or exhaustion kicking in, many more. Thankfully the recent changes to chests seem a to have taken them off this list, they were notorious for causing it.

    Anyway this issue has been brought up in threads before so they are aware, but it is yet another reason why consoles need that promised 60 fps from like two years ago.

    A side effect is the accelerated wear to the controller, which is real as well.

  • Milo Milo

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845468#Comment_1845468

    The killer is by default at a disadvantage because that's how asymmetric multiplayer goes. If everyone in the game is of equal ability, the survivors will win. (Especially if you add the typical 3rd party VoIP among teaming survivors into the mix.)

    If you happen to miss the timing, you died and the killer's game just became that much easier. A killer has to worry about remaining generators generators along with the hooked survivor locations, which probably have at least one survivor going to help them and any other survivors are probably doing gens. It happens very rarely if ever and how exactly do you expect to miss a button hold?

    Additionally, if you realistically have no way failing at struggling, what's the point of the second stage then? For you to hang around casually without the typical escape prompts you had on stage 1? With literally no threat whatsoever?

    It happens very rarely if ever and how exactly do you expect to miss a button hold?

    Very rarely if ever. Why should it happen at all then? This is something that can change how the match functions in a single second which you said yourself. Why should it be an annoying mechanic?

  • EvanSnowWolf EvanSnowWolf

    @Mastermind said:

    How about a feature where you hold a button for a certain length of time and the game wins itself for you?


    Congratulations! You just described holding down M1 to complete a generator.

  • Mastermind Mastermind

    @Milo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845641#Comment_1845641

    It happens very rarely if ever and how exactly do you expect to miss a button hold?

    Very rarely if ever. Why should it happen at all then? This is something that can change how the match functions in a single second which you said yourself. Why should it be an annoying mechanic?

    Very rarely if ever is what I'm pointing at with how much people here claim that it's such a big issue.

    Struggling is there indicating effort exertion. In your terms "annoying". All it is is an easy, constant and continuous focus test. A situation is going on around you and a person can only juggle between various tasks while they can't truly consciously multitask. So anything going on around you that gets you out of that focus can potentially end you on stage 2. If the goal were to hold a button you could have dropped into a coma mid "struggle" and you wouldn't change the outcome of the situation.

    @EvanSnowWolf said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845247#Comment_1845247

    Congratulations! You just described holding down M1 to complete a generator.

    Congratulations! You triggered a skill check which you didn't hit of course, because that's not holding M1 now, is it. The killer saw the indicator and made their way to you, grabbed you off the gen (Wouldn't want to stop holding that one button now, would you?) and hooked you. Your 3 escape attempts all failed quickly as you passed on to stage two. Wouldn't want to hurt yourself now or irreversibly damage the control device you're using along with the fact that your gloriously unbeatable one button strategy can't fail, you do not bother yourself with struggling as you die and wonder about the concept of how judging an interconnected system based on one secluded component is stupid.

  • EvanSnowWolf EvanSnowWolf

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845978#Comment_1845978

    Very rarely if ever is what I'm pointing at with how much people here claim that it's such a big issue.

    Struggling is there indicating effort exertion. In your terms "annoying". All it is is an easy, constant and continuous focus test. A situation is going on around you and a person can only juggle between various tasks while they can't truly consciously multitask. So anything going on around you that gets you out of that focus can potentially end you on stage 2. If the goal were to hold a button you could have dropped into a coma mid "struggle" and you wouldn't change the outcome of the situation.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845989#Comment_1845989

    Congratulations! You triggered a skill check which you didn't hit of course, because that's not holding M1 now, is it. The killer saw the indicator and made their way to you, grabbed you off the gen (Wouldn't want to stop holding that one button now, would you?) and hooked you. Your 3 escape attempts all failed quickly as you passed on to stage two. Wouldn't want to hurt yourself now or irreversibly damage the control device you're using along with the fact that your gloriously unbeatable one button strategy can't fail, you do not bother yourself with struggling as you die and wonder about the concept of how judging an interconnected system based on one secluded component is stupid.

    instructions.png


    .....K

  • Milo Milo

    @Mastermind said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845978#Comment_1845978

    Very rarely if ever is what I'm pointing at with how much people here claim that it's such a big issue.

    Struggling is there indicating effort exertion. In your terms "annoying". All it is is an easy, constant and continuous focus test. A situation is going on around you and a person can only juggle between various tasks while they can't truly consciously multitask. So anything going on around you that gets you out of that focus can potentially end you on stage 2. If the goal were to hold a button you could have dropped into a coma mid "struggle" and you wouldn't change the outcome of the situation.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845989#Comment_1845989

    Congratulations! You triggered a skill check which you didn't hit of course, because that's not holding M1 now, is it. The killer saw the indicator and made their way to you, grabbed you off the gen (Wouldn't want to stop holding that one button now, would you?) and hooked you. Your 3 escape attempts all failed quickly as you passed on to stage two. Wouldn't want to hurt yourself now or irreversibly damage the control device you're using along with the fact that your gloriously unbeatable one button strategy can't fail, you do not bother yourself with struggling as you die and wonder about the concept of how judging an interconnected system based on one secluded component is stupid.

    So, where's "effort" during first phase then? You just sit there, without even holding a button. Only effort there is, is holding a button to maybe escape the hook, but that's only by choice.

    Also I'm gonna use an example someone else mentioned (and tagged you).

    Me and others on Xbox can die on hook while struggling whenever the frames drop. This can be caused by a gen popping nearby, sloppy being applied, exposed/NOED procting, Myers teiring up, Lithe and/or exhaustion kicking in, many more. Thankfully the recent changes to chests seem a to have taken them off this list, they were notorious for causing it. - JPLongstreet

    And again, i'm gonna point out this: It doesn't have to be fully automatic. Making it skillcheck based similiarly to Pyramid Head could also help. Automatic however removes a lot of issues consoles and "weaker" computers could be facing.

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