kawaiibats
kawaiibats
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@Artimenius1307 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/469545/tunneling-reduction
I am unsure why people dislike the infinite haste for tunneled survivor, technically speaking it's going to be a 1 time thing only (unless ofc Shoulder the burden but that's a different topic). Even with such system you still can pretty much tunnel someone out you just need 1 hook in-between 1st and 2nd hook of survivor you wanna tunnel out.
One can say it's again, hand holding, giving free stuff for survivors, but if it comes together with some good stuff for killers who spread hooks? Hell yeah count me in.
On the other hand, the flaws of your system are similar to design of Pain Res. It sounds like a design to discourage tunneling, but ends up working much better after tunneling. Similarly, if a killer tunnels a survivor out, they now also get the passive benefit of spreading hooks since that's usually what is done after.
It is why imo to design a proper hook spread or anti tunnel system, it needs to be separated into different scenarios, depending on the state of the game. Because frankly speaking, a full meta Blight killing someone at 5 gens, and a trapper on his last gen who really needs that kill as fast as possible shouldn't be treated as similar situations
This is good feedback
I agree that this system could fall into a "win more" trap and not really help killers who struggle to get the ball rolling as-is. The game could already be over by the time Trapper manages his second hook and the system is irrelevant, but it'll still benefit tunnelling somewhat.
Perhaps the buff could be applied on the first hook. But we are definitely falling into Pain Res territory where good killers get much better but bad killer don't benefit much at that point. That's a shame really but I do appreciate your comment pointing that out.
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In my opinion they should take away the "need" to "get this one person out" by incentivizing the killer with something like generator anti progress to simulate the benefit they would have gotten from tunneling. Then they should make it so the third time you chase one person in a row, if they don't heal, they get a made for this speed buff. I don't think this would penalize inadvertent tunneling as much as intentionally doing it, and as long as there were a greater incentive to "torture" survivors and make the trial longer it could work.
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@HexSlugged said:
if you use tunneling to body block or protect an unhooker you have no argument against being tunneled in my opinion.
there are already multiple perks that help the unhooked to help you get away but if we are offering a solution to tunneling because people use the tunneling offensively than no solution is needed as it ceases to be the more problematic form of tunneling the second you use your protection as a weapon and not a defense.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. My implementation would not let the tunneled player offer any extra protection to the other players, though an old version of behaviours might have given long invincibility for instance.
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I agree that the killers are extremely disparate in power level.
That is another factor which contributes to DBD's identity confusion because killers can choose to make themselves powerful or extremely weak. Is it meant to be competitive and tunneling and kill everyone asap, or is it meant for playing around.
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4096428#Comment_4096428
i do know that but it is a team game so the intention would be to attempt to assist your team mate and so if they decide to play solo when there is still a team in game they are in fact abandoning you even if they arent hitting a button that says abandon.
Right, and I agree with you that's what happening. But my question is this: how do we stop incentivizing survivors to abandon their teammates?
I think the hatch system is a serious issue because the killer "needs" to use that third survivor as bait/dead meat just waiting there for as much as a few minutes.
At bare minimum you gotta let the person on the ground who has no hope of the exiting the trial alive to turn into a bot. This would save 999/1000 matches allowing players to get into games while a bot lies down for them.
Unfortunately that is against the spirit of the game, but they're going to die regardless. Let them die, and then if BHVR seriously think the hatch duel between survivor/killer is fun, start that event immediately.
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@HexSlugged said:
hm sounds like there needs to be an instant mori on the last survivor so that your slug can end quicker over an abandon feature when there is still a chance for your last team mate to save you. I think thats a better idea than abandoning your team mate.
I want to note, in 90% of games, this is not quite right. "Abandoning your teammate" would only happen if the other survivor were trying to save you. Generally, once generators can't be completed, many players play for hatch on their own. (I'm sure you knew most of that though)
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Yes, I think at the bare minimum you need to let the slugged player turn into a bot.
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Unfortunately I do feel that if you gave him every trap at the start, almost every player would set up all of the traps on basement or just one strong spot. He would then become pretty strong against uncoordinated teams who won't let someone die and it'd just be the most frustrating gameplay. He does need something preventing him from placing many, many traps in one area like the 3 gen immediately.
Obviously trapper is an incomplete killer because he loses the first half of the match to grabbing and setting those traps up. But I would want to be careful he isn't encouraged to sit in one spot starting from second zero.
I do like the idea of the traps spawning armed in useful places like windows/pallets though just as a start of course
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@Elan said:
People don't understand why people tunnel still… They want to win a competitive game and take every advantage they can, so they run most meta possible and tunnel. Same as survivors take bst they can and rush gens. It always been like this but as 3 gen got removed and camping was made harder, not many strategies left. But tunneling is a standard competitive way to play in any pvp game and DBD is only game to deny this tactic to some point.
The goal is not to take away from people who desire to win a competitive game using any advantage they can find. I do, however, think the advantage is much too great when you compare it to the difficulty of tunnelling. If tunneling is easier than spreading hooks but gives better results, that needs correction. Tunnelling should require overcoming something, because after you complete it, you're in a much better spot than if you had targetted separate players.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Your survivor idea is permanent sprinting. They get permanent speed for "getting unhooked" that will stay even after doing gens, unhooking others or whatever.
Do you really think thats not broken?
From my understanding, it's a speed boost that lets you outrun other survivors, but not killers. I don't think it is the same haste effect that lithe/SB/so on would apply.
In any case though, no, I was thinking more along the lines of the speed boost that Made For This gives. The killer can still kill them as per usual, but they have a slight speed boost.
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Indeed, I agree that the break down of the gameplay which happens once the survivors realize they cannot complete the generators is one of the least appealing parts of DbD.
It should not have been kept in for this long. Killers should be encouraged to kill that downed survivor, not ignore them for the rest of the match. But as is, it's not advantageous to do so, only courteous. Killers should not have to be thinking about whether to be courteous.