hmeekins
hmeekins
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@Steakdabait said:
It's over used a lot but complaining about a killer design that there just isn't a reason to want to engage in chase with is still important feedback
I get that but at the same time people in this game genuinely do complain a lot about very minor things. Deathslinger is a huge example of this, people complained that you could not react to his gun if he quickscoped and he could also easily zone with it, while that argument is valid the argument became overexaggerated into he has no counterplay. Yes if caught out in the open he could zone you until he got a hit or quick scope you before you can react but should a killer whose power is solely focused on chase not be able to take advantage of a survivor being caught in a bad spot. He still had plenty of counterplay: use cover, break the chain, if he misses use the opportunity to gain distance and waste more time. But nope, the boring argument won so guess what the devs did, nerfed him into the ground, increased the ads time, increased his terror radius so no more stealth slinger, and slowed movement speed while aiming, but hey I guess he got 2 more meters of distance to shoot which nine times out of ten ends with a broken chain anyways. Not to mention he was not even an overly strong killer at the time either, mid to top b tier at best. My point is with new killers constantly being added, you can't expect an ever-increasing roster to all have unique powers/playstyles while also maintaining 100% 50/50 gameplay in all situations.
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Unpopular opinions for both sides:
Let people play the game how they want without constant complaining. I swear this is probably the whiniest community I've seen in any game. It's like the second one side loses they try to find anything to blame their loss on. Gen-rushing is not toxic, it's survivors playing efficiently and you shouldn't expect them to limit their performance so you are more likely to win. On the other hand ######### like camping and tunneling can actually be genuine strategies to win, I had a match not long ago in which I lost 4 gens in about 5 minutes as deathslinger and realized I needed to get someone out of the game soon, after downing someone a survivor unhooked someone who was dead on hook near me so I slugged and went for the unhooked survivor. Yes, this is 'tunneling' but up until this point I had hooked several different people multiple times so I did not just push someone out immediately. Got bitched at by the team at the endgame because I had tunneled and that means I'm not good at killer or something. Again, why do people expect you to make intentionally bad plays because they personally don't enjoy it? I don't enjoy getting blinded when picking up a survivor and losing the down but I'm not going to say you aren't allowed to do that because I don't find it fun. I know I'm ranting but I swear there is always something that someone complains about, not to mention people complaining about the killer you're playing. I swear I've heard some sort of complaint about half the roster in the game.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/393686/add-on-change
I think one of the main reasons why is to encourage variety. Imagine for instance that a killer's best addon is a purple and lets assume its not op or anything like that its simply just better than their other addons. The issue is every person playing said killer would just run that purple addon every time. Now with the current system especially earlier on you are forced to run differing addons or no addons simply because you do not have any left. This alone encourages a lot of build variety. I don't even think your idea is bad I myself have sometimes wished I had infinite of a certain addon. But from a game design perspective its actually quite smart they decided to have addons limited in this way for this reason and probably a few others.
I get your point but honestly, I think permanent add-ons would increase build variety. There will definitely be people that only run meta addons with meta perks but at the same time, there are lots of unique builds that really only work if used with addons. I mean look at any YouTuber playing a new build on a killer, a lot of the time the add-ons they run aren't necessarily the best add-ons for the killer but rather add-ons that enable that unique build/playstyle to work. With the current system, why would I want to run a unique build if it requires me to constantly invest in the add-ons that actually make it work when I could just run the standard meta build for the killer and be just as successful?
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3512106#Comment_3512106
You would be able to portal the last gens and have back-up portals for each gen. You can't do this now unless you do nothing but play for the 3 gen. If the survivors have a good gen spread then they can just destroy the portal you placed on the gen and force you to walk back to replace that portal, but if you can recall you portals then destroying the portals doesn't make sense since Demo will just tp to the second portal at that gen.
i never said he could just recall them though. I said he would have to go and manually break the portal similar to survivors. If the demogorgon was able to walk around the map and break all of his old portals and then proceed to place two portals on each of the final gens before survivors finish a gen or at the very least makes enough progress to properly pressure the killer that sounds like a skill issue.
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@Trollinmon said:
If they let you destroy the portals I would think that does nothing but buff the 3 gen bs Demo can do.
I think a nice QOL/buff for Demo portals would be a portal placement speed. You already have to be in a area for the portal mechanic but then you also get hit with the sluggish setting time on a chase killer that just feels better using that mechanic sparingly.
How would him being able to destroy his portals buff his three-gen?
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@LobbyDodgerLeonidas said:
I don't know for sure, only the devs could tell you. I've only ran into a couple Singularitys since he released. One tried using his power in chase and got dumpstered with a 4 escape. The other one 4Ked by HARD 3 genning.
I've tried playing him in chase and his power is too cumbersome to use for what little reward you get from his power. Using the Biopods to spy on gens has multiple flaws. One, the EMPs are so plentiful that you'll basically watch the survivors finish the gen through an EMPed biopod and 2nd, even if you infect them with the slipstream from the camera, it takes so long to teleport to them that they can easily break LoS and prevent it unless they don't care or are clueless.
He's the worst killer in the game IMO and he has the lowest kill rate on NightLight
Imma have to disagree with you. Now I get he's a new killer so I could be wrong as people learn to play against him more but his kit has so much to offer that IMO he is at least top of B or even A tier. If you slipstream a survivor in a chase, you now have built-in spirit fury and 75% faster breaking and vault speeds. Beyond that, he can easily cover the distance lost from either the time it took you to get them infected with the camera or w-gaming. I put a few clips together to show what I'm talking about if you feel like watching:
https://youtu.be/LKGybcUbFRI (Audio on some clips is gone because clipping software does not record audio when I'm wearing headphones)
Beyond Chase, his cameras do help with defending hooks and holding 3-gens. I know these strategies can be boring but the ability to do them effectively still increases the killer's viability even more. As I said earlier he is still new so I very well could be wrong but a killer with map awareness, good gen defense, and a solid chase has to be a little better than the worst in the game.
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@mikewelk said:
Just had a solo queue game against a Wesker (as usual) and this EGC should be self-explanatory of why I made this discussion.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0TNZT0XP77CQ/zrzut-ekranu-2023-07-21-135952.png
The build I was running was: We'll Make it, Desperate Measures, Windows of Opportunity, and Botany Knowledge. I didn't get any value from that build whatsoever because the game was hectic. I also had a yellow flashlight which I never used. Out of the entire team, apart from the survivor getting tunneled, I sat on gens the least because I was either getting chased or cleansing Pentimento after Playthings were cleansed. He saw me finish the last gen and assumed I was gen-rushing for whatever reason. I completed the last gen with Pentimento active since his gen pressure was pretty bad. Funny thing is that no one in our team even had toolboxes.
Gen-rushing has really lost the meaning behind it and it's commonly used to excuse bad gameplay now.
I agree with you. However I think this goes for both sides. Terms like tunneling and camping are overused as well. There have been plenty of matches where a survivor tries to body block their friend after just being unhooked so I wait out the bt timer and down them and get called a tunneler. So it’s fine to try and waste my time by making yourself a target while you know your safe but the second you are no longer protected I have to let you go? Let’s not forget getting called a camper because I defended a hook when I saw two survivors actively waiting for me to leave so they can unhook, guess I’m supposed to just give away my pressure so survivors can have a good time. I’m honestly just so sick of how whiney a lot of Dbd players have gotten. Like I genuinely can’t think of a game where people complain more than Dbd. The only game I know where people will consistently call you toxic for not throwing the match.
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@Dogma_loki said:
The vast majority of killer mains play DBD because they suck at other PVP games and like the one sided experience BHVR enables.
Yet survivor is the easier role to pick up and master
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@SaltyNooty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076896#Comment_3076896
I've played enough matches as killer and as survivor to understand where the changes and fixes needed to be. This isnt it.
Dead hard has ALWAYS been counter able and its something most people PREACH in this forum. Bait it out. Literally. Just bait it out. It's ironic how ALL killers now understand they can bait out DH and call it a day compared to before hand where they REFUSED TO accept that fact.
Another long winded tactic is breaking chase, I've actually earned multiple 4ks by going for survivors who arent too good at looping compared to the one who are. Take advantage of that, force the bad loopers to waste good loops which then punish the good loopers for their teammates mistakes. It's easier to do than you think.
Even in good MMR'S, with or without DH this stuff still stands regardless of whether you choose to refute it or not. It simply comes down to the same thing killer mains are laughing and preaching to survivors now.
**SKILL.**
Also if you could name 3 perks on the killer side that got nerfed, that'd be great.
Dead hard is not always counterable, dead hard to dodge an attack is BUT dead harding for distance is quite literally impossible to counter for most killers. You cant bait it out because they're not doing it to dodge, they're doing it to gain distance to a pallet, window, or loop which they will always gain no matter when they activate it. The other problem with dead hard is that it doesn't just reward you for nothing, it rewards you for screwing up, its condition to activate is literally get injured. This isn't the only survivor perk that does this, unbreakable also rewards you for screwing up, you mess up by getting downed but oh wait you can pick yourself back up keeping you from getting snowballed because you and your teammates grouped up in the same spot. Most of the META killer perks at least rewarded you for accomplishing your objective, pop (get a hook and hit gen), Scourge Pain Resonance (Get a hook), Sloppy Butcher (Get a hit), STBFL (Get a hit), BBQ (Get a Hook), Thana (Get injures) etc. The only killer perk I can think of that rewards the killer for playing bad is NOED which coincidentally was one of the most complained about perks in the killer's arsenal despite not being that good. In conclusion:
DH needed nerf.
Also, killer perks that got nerfed:
Pop, Ruin, Tinkerer, Scourge Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention, NOED (Total 6)
Survivor Perks that got nerfed:
DS, DH, Self Care, Spine Chill, Iron Will, Borrowed time (Not really because you technically get a longer total time of endurance now than you did before but since endurance is built-in people won't see it as worth it ig) (Total 6)
Seems pretty fair, especially considering the fact that borrowed time is technically not a nerf.
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@GiveMeBoops said:
It's not true he has nothing going for him, but it's just not worth compare to his limitations.
He has value from STBFL and mending, but then you have limited range, small hitbox, can't down over most pallets, possible to deny downs, bad 1v4, punished a lot for any missed shots, normal TR, clunky mechanic
Main issue is they went completely wrong direction imo. Main issue was faking ADS, so predicting was not worth it and they made it so Deathslinger is forced to fake / hold ADS every time. You just can't shoot asap, when it is easily reactable.
You have to fake so you can find out how that survivor will react, either dance for you or you will shoot him.
Don't really get bigger TR. I doubt there is Deathslinger main that thought M&A is his best perk, it was meme perk. You need to have line of sight to shoot, so that survivor either could see you before, or it wasn't 18 meters and they could hear his TR anyway.
I agree and disagree with some of your points. I never really took into account the way you said to play him which is pretty smart. However, I don't think he gets very much value from mending because in order to get use out of it you have to abandon the survivor which I personally don't think you should be doing too much with deathslinger unless you have another easy survivor within proximity of the one your chasing or the chase is going on too long. He's kind of like clown now, his chases aren't terrible but if the only power you have is mediocre chase your going to be weak. It's just too slow, shoot, pull chain in, swing, cooldown, reload, shoot, pull chain in, down, reload, hook. It just isn't efficient. I know your goal should be to try and m1 first but as a 110% killer that isn't going to happen super often unless you catch a survivor off-guard which is a lot harder to do considering they made his terror radius larger. I'll say it again he wasn't incredibly strong to begin with and they almost completely removed the stuff he was good at with this nerf.
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I would love to see the creeper from Jeepers Creepers
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@jester20k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/232858/message-for-last-survivor-slugged
Slugging for the 4k is petty. Who really cares, you won and you'd get more points for time invested by moving on to the next game, but you want to sweat for the 4k. In this same situation I try to hide as well, because you wasted my time, so I'm going to waste yours and try to deny you some points. Don't be a time waster and then cry that others are wasting your time.
Your just as guilty as the killer when it comes to wasting time. If the killer is slugging for the 4k why not just come out and let them kill you? You said it yourself, the killer already won. What makes you any more deserving of a pity escape than the killer getting their deserved 4k? No time would be wasted if you just came out of hiding let the killer down you and end the game.
Imagine you're playing survivor, you finish all the gens and are going to open the exit gates. Now imagine you have a 50% chance of dying after opening. That's the hatch mechanic, its annoying and not only that but even if a killer closes hatch the survivor may even get a third chance to escape through stupid door spawns. Personally I don't slug for the 4k because I don't care enough about it but you cant fault killers for trying to play around these mechanics.
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My Personal Fav ;)
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@Haddix said:
I love Demo, I used to main him, I still preach his strengths, I do think he's very underrated, but his main issue is that he definitely doesn't compete with the strength of the best killers. He's also got the issue of having the same strengths as better killers, but those strengths being weaker (since he's a jack of all trades).
Take Blight, a killer that I think is very comparable to Demo. Mobility off the bat, power is overall similar to a slower shred, but a shred that gives you high mobility around the map AND has an instant charge time, that also has a lunge at the end of it (that you can flick, flick Blight main here), and it also breaks pallets. Blight also has amazing catch-up, so there's a small window of time between each hit. This alone just makes Blight a better Demo.
You can also compare Freddy to Demo. Freddy has a teleport that brings you right to gens with no setup time. Great anti-loop. Passive stealth. Passive slowdown.
Pyramid Head as well. Power similar to Shred, but one that you move faster in while charging, and sends out a shockwave that goes out through walls, pallets, and windows. He has a little bit of setup with trails, but not much to the point where it's really inconvenient. Wastes less time with caging (rather than wasting less time with mobility with portals) and can avoid the perk meta.
Hell, even Victor. Moves at 6m/s base, has a super fast charge time, and pounces fast to pallets and windows. He's almost like a mini Demo that moves super fast, is very stealthy, can't break pallets or vault windows, but gets a muuuuch faster rate of downs. He's amazing at snowballing once survivors are injured.
Huntress. Charges attack around a corner, throws a hatchet and can attack through pallets, windows, and at a super high range. She just doesn't have a secondary, but a far stronger chase. Also slower, but again, fast chases.
Slinger. Instant charge time, attacks through windows even when survivors vault them, can injured through pallets, and can attack from a very high range and is undodgable. He's just also slow.
A lot of these powers are similar to Shred, but just objectively stronger. The upside that Demo has over all of these powers, with the exception of Freddy and Blight, is suuuuper high mobility around the map with portals, but with the cost of a lot of setup time, the risk of them being disabled, and having to be on top of a portal to go to another. The portals aren't amazing, and as his chases are similar but much weaker to other killers, he's just lacking because of his weaker strength when compared to others.
Also, a downside of any killer is having to land one attack, then hold W and land another. He can't instadown or close the distance really quickly (Like Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Hag, Huntress, Oni, Bubba, etc). STBFL makes this MUCH better for Demo, but without it, or at low stacks, it's going to be difficult for this to not be an issue.
Being a jack of all trades is just not a great thing, because it leads to the issue of "why not just play this killer?" Still, love Demo, I think he's a decent killer, but there you go.
I do think you are making very valid points. Yes killers like Freddy do his power better, but lets not forget the devs and plenty of the community see Freddy as too strong and it is already confirmed he is getting a nerf.
I also play blight a lot and know he is a very strong killer. Blight does mobility better than Demogorgon and they have similar chase. But demo also has tracking which seems to be forgotten by a lot of the community. It is a lot stronger than people give it credit for. The fact that we are even comparing blight (an A tier killer) to demo is just helping my point.
Pyramid Head has better chase and his cages are efficient. But people don't take into account just how much demos portals allow him to defend gens. Especially the final three. The ability to be constantly aware of who is on what gen and having instant mobility to that with little the survivors can do about it (If they don't cleanse I know they're there and can teleport, if they do cleanse I know they're there and they wasted 12 seconds cleansing) is insanely powerful.
Victor is Charlottes only power, and after using him she has to spend like 3 or 4 seconds switching back and has to also waste time going over to pick up the survivor and victor can just be completely negated at certain such as the harvester on coldwind or any of the Haddonfield houses.
Deathslinger has better chase but also has no mobility whatsoever and missing shots is very punishing. Demo can recover in a second and be back in chase, if deathslinger wants to use his gun again not only does he have to wait for the missed shot stun to end but he also has to reload. Demogorgon's shred isn't actually reactable either, combining his insanely wide hitbox with almost 20 meters a second speed and you left with pre-emptively dodging similar to deathslinger.
I could very well be 100% wrong and I'm ok with that. I just really do believe that his kit has more to offer than people give it credit for.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I dropped a pallet. Now he has no anti-loop. That's why he's ultimately mediocre against a good team. He's a glorified pallet breaker like Freddy.
I really don't get where this idea came from that he's only good at anti loop when a pallet isn't dropped. Like what about his shred gives you that impression?
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@Pulsar said:
Because he is.
Demo suffers from something unique. He can do everything, but he isn't particularly good at anything. He is stuck being either bad at worst or mediocre at best because of it. This also affects his pick rate. If you want someone with a ranged attack, why play Demo when you can play Deathslinger, Huntress or Freddy? Want stealth? Why not Myers, GhostFace or Wraith? Easy map traversal? Spirit, Billy, Blight and Oni.
As for your points, I'll address them.
- His Shred is easily baitable and is pretty punishing. It also SUCKS on Console, which is where I play.
- Portals do offer map traversal, but they can be removed. They also give a huge notification that you are using them AND they glow.
- His tracking is decent, but again, it's only when touching the Portal and tracking without means to capitalize is meaningless.
- He is good with STBFL.
- His stealth is REALLY bad. Only really bad Survivors will EVER be surprised by him. He gives not one, not two, but THREE warning signs that he's near. Map wide notification that he is using a Portal, Portal glows and his stomping.
- He isn't map dependent. That is true.
Demo needs a total redesign. Not only is he mediocre at best, but he is boring to play. He could've been so interesting, he does so much in ST. Have him able to pull Survivors into the Upside-Down. Have his Portals expand to corrupt the surrounding area. Let him pull generators into the Upside-Down. Do something to make him unique.
Seeing as how you have the most upvotes Im going to respond to you points. First of all I am in no way saying he's op. But I do think that he is a lot stronger than people give him credit for
- You said that the shred is baitable and pretty punishing. The same can be said about deathslinger's spear, huntress' hatchet, and pyramid heads POTD. The trick is patience, he moves fast enough in the shred that you can react to a survivor actually window vaulting 95% of the time so as long as you wait to see what their actually doing you will be fine.
- Portals can be removed, but it takes 12 seconds by default to seal it whereas it takes you one to replace it. You'll probally be heading over their anyways since you do get shown which portal got cleansed so you know thats where survivors are so when you get their just spend 1 second replacing it. They're wasting more time cleansing then it takes you to replace.
- His tracking is average for most of the match. But when you get to the final three gens it becomes very difficult for survivors to play around. If they don't cleanse you are constantly aware of when someone is on your gen. If they do cleanse not only did they waste twelve seconds of their time you are also still aware of what gen their on.
- His stealth is bad I agree with you on that I was just making the point that you still sometimes to get value out of it.
I'm just saying with these facts in mind and the right build Demogorgon is a hard killer to beat.
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I think it should be reworked to truly be an anti tunnel perk
Hear me out:
The 60 second timer remains unchanged
First: DS deactivates upon working on a gen/healing/cleansing for x amount of seconds. If you are comfortable enough to do these tasks you aren't being tunneled and the killer has every right to chase you again.
Second: To prevent this perk from being useless, if you are in a chase the timer pauses, it also pauses while being slugged. Therefore if you are being tunneled you are under the protection of the perk.
With these changes the perk 100% protects you from being tunneled by the killer but also prevents you from just being granted free immunity to do whatever you want during those 60 seconds.
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@Black_Fence said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1861307#Comment_1861307
Enlighten me then, how do you "use it properly" is that the thing where you press e to avoid a hit and end up on the ground because of hit validation? Dead hard worked when it was peer to peer, it broke with servers and broke even more with "hit validation" the exhausted on the ground happens then "hit validation kicks in" and I am no longer exhausted but I am still on the ground. The game knows I shouldn't be exhausted because I got hit mid dead hard so I shouldn't have gone down but the hit validation favours the killers and as such the game says the dead hard didn't happen even though on my screen it did.
I think they mean when they say survivors aren’t using it properly is when they use Dh to dodge an attack.
Anyways my main issue with dead hard is it rewards a survivor for making mistakes. On top of that there is nothing you can do if a survivor deadhards for distance. Even if I predict that they have dh and wait it out they may still be able to get to a pallet and continue the chase for a lot longer, and when you play killer time is everything. Every second a killer wastes in chase is 3 seconds the remaining survivors gain so it gets pretty infuriating when you’ve won the chase but then a survivor presses the almighty e to get them to safety.
A good comparison to this perk is noed (which btw is pretty weak in comparison to Dh as most times it just grants a single pity kill) because of the fact that it rewards the killer for being in a losing scenario.
I am trying not to be biased but I really can’t see how some people don’t see the issue in the fundamental design of perks such as these. If you feel otherwise I’d love to hear why.
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@Toblerone007 said:
Good evening,
So far not enjoying versing the twins against rank 1 killers. I wholeheartedly agree the twins aren't overpowered but there are very mundane aspects of the kit that I've felt I need to vent.
Issue 1: Charlotte doesn't have terror radius when swapped to victor. One strategy currently is to leave Charlotte at the hook with a hooked survivor and use victor to pressure survivors off the gens and swap to charlotte as soon as there is indication of survivor save. Swap back and now there is no borrowed time effect and an easy tunnelled hit.
Issue 2: Basement is blockable by Charlotte. Therefore basement hooks are currently unsaveable if the killer decides to block the stairs whilst still being able to use victor to pressure generators. I'm not gonna go into detail with this because basement is meant to be a tile killer can turn/win games easily with. It's your fault for going down in basement etc. Just found this extremely unfair because the twins can keep basement locked down globally and have victor stop generator progress.
Issue 3: Hits are very quick with victor. It plays like legion but with the ability to down. The pressure is insane. Pallets, Windows are unsafe as well as the lunge range being huge. You feel the need to try and weave side to side to at least try and throw the killer off. This is an interaction similar to deathslinger where he baits ADS then gets the free m1 because you didn't run in a straight line.
Now I haven't mentioned with getting all these downs the time it takes to actually hook survivors with charlotte is uncanny. It isn't hard to get to the endgame against this killer. Also, the killers I'm playing against tend not to swap to victor until getting the m1 on a healthy survivor first. I'm guessing this is because the survivors in this rank bracket know to not crush victor on your back.
Solo queue against the twins is also incredibly difficult because it's not uncommon for the twins to get a lot of slugs. However, not be in position to hook them and have victor chasing someone else and nobody gets anyone up. Perhaps allow survivors to hear victors lunge scream global maybe similar to demo?
Overall, I'm not suggesting the killer is overpowered. On the contrary actually quite weak. It's just extremely unfun to go against these players using these strategies which are just not fun and I don't think they were intentional except maybe victors very small charge time, zero lunge cancel time and a very forgiving hitbox cone. It's a mess at rank 1 for this killer. I only manage to do well in the games if I take first chase and run a 115% killer to the best of my ability. Usually they will give in and use victor to get the ball rolling. Is it enough time to win a solo q match? Maybe? Only if everyone is optimal with generators!
tl;dr weak 1v4 killer but the 1v1 seems to not challenge either party - easy free hits and not being able to use environments effectively as survivor. I've found using small unsafe pallet loops quite feasable against victor but I'm sure once killers practice it more they will have no issues getting the hit.
I suggest giving terror radius onto charlotte when swapped out to allow borrowed time - it's only fair... There is nothing you can do to prevent a tunnel except for taking a hit - if the killer allows it or if the hook was on a loopable tile. I don't think it's fair to say that if you get hooked on a deadzone hook it should be game over.
All my analysis was from perspective of survivor. I tried to make sure all my claims were correct to the information on the wiki. Please correct me if I'm wrong on anything. I do play killer and was a huge fan of the blight release. I love high skill cap killer play! It's very healthy for high rank dead by daylight!
Cheers!
I honestly appreciate the constructive criticism instead of just complaining which is the norm on the forums. You make some good points, the only thing is (I haven’t tested it btw so I don’t know) but doesn’t Charlotte have to be a certain distance from the hook before she can switch to victor, like can she actually be out of that designated range while bodyblocking basement stairs?
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@Klakky said:
The baby can hit you while you're fully inside a locker!!! I was in there for 10seconds cause I heard it comin and it just hit me trough
imma be honest you kind of deserve to get hit. Though it’s not technically a bug, lockers are not meant to 100% shut down the twins power yet you still use that. So if your exploiting a known issue with the killer that is going to get fixed the killer should do it right back.
I also just realized this new locker change will actually nerf the twins since it actually isn’t as effective at countering lockers as the bug is right now. I honestly don’t know why victor can’t just pull people out and down them. Every other killer can so you would just treat lockers the same way as you would against every other killer. I mean with this bug they already can down people in lockers and they still suck.
Sorry for ranting.
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@Xpljesus said:
Victor can get over pallets and get the hit, but he has to move a decent distance away from the pallet due to the arc, so I'd say your specific strategy of just pallet camping doesn't work - however that doesn't mean your general point is wrong, if a surv is actually running around a pallet properly, it is pretty difficult to get a hit as Victor
if they see him charging up a far pounce or just backing away they could just move out of the way of the pallet, then when he quits they can just go straight back to the pallet. Hell I'm pretty sure you can just crouch but id have to test it.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I wonder: Is the dead end room on Saloon actually a counter?
Lmao as of his current state I guess so.
That's kind of my issue with the twins at the moment. I'm all for killers having counters, but it seems like every counter to this killer is just way to easy to pull off and most are guaranteed to negate the power entirely.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
I really hope they rework the whole power, there's really nothing I like about it currently.
Idk I really like it but there definitely are some key issues that need to be addressed.
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@BattleCast said:
I’d make it so his gun will explode generators when he shoots them. This would allow him to instantly kick generators that take a while to patrol like the generator on Dead Dawg Saloon that’s upstairs of the saloon.
Allowing him to use his gun as a grappling hook would just look ridiculous tbh.
Lmao true
Your Idea sounds pretty good.
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@BattleCast said:
OK HEAR ME OUT!
Killers that require you to get M1's without using their power take a lot of skill. Against good survivors getting an M1 takes SOOOO much effort. Therefore I say Wraith, Michael, Pig, Plague, Legion, Trapper, and even GF to an extent require a lot of skill IMO.
I think you are getting effort and skill confused. Yes it is true that m1 killers require more effort to get hits, but that does not necessarily equate to skill. Most tiles are safe and can’t be played around if the survivor knows what their doing (Jungle-gyms, cow tree, most main buildings, shack, auto haven tractor loop, bus loop, and plenty of other unnamed tiles). It’s sort of like the whole reason deathslinger is seen as having no counter play , sure you can try to influence him to miss but him actually missing is on the deathslinger himself. Most m1 play against strong survivors is breaking pallets at strong jungle gyms and either hoping for them to go to a weak loop or to hit them before they get to another pallet. I personally think m1 killers, while not necessarily the easiest to win with are the easiest to play. (Also don’t confuse a killer getting easier wins as easy, just because the killer is strong doesn’t mean they’re not hard)
In my opinion the hardest killers can be factored into two different categories
Hardest killers to master:
Huntress, Deathslinger, Blight, Trapper, Hag
Hardest Killers to pick up(For me at least):
Oni, Billy, Blight
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Demo can hit his shred from the air now(Its niche but god does it feel good to hit), honestly he doesn't need any buffs. I absolutely love him the way he is rn, and with the right build he can be a monster. I know survivors are gonna roll their eyes at me but I love ruin/undying tinkerer and stbfl. The only two things I would like to see but aren't really needed are:
- Rat liver base kit (Being a gray addon it kinda is anyways)
- Addon Rework
Other than that I'm pretty contempt with him at the moment.
P3 demo main just so my opinion doesn't seem invalid.
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It really depends on if you mean easier to play or easier to win. Survivor imo is easier to play, but I also think its harder to win (with the exception of SWF) mainly because you have to rely on you teamates which for whatever reason always seem to be mentally challenged.
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1265082#Comment_1265082
Lol 23 people say otherwise.
You clearly ignored that last bit I said so I'm just gonna copy and paste it again and wait for it to sink in: "For reference a real M1 killer has no options in the middle of the chase, and can't use their ability to secure downs."
Ghostface uses his ability to secure downs while in chases, mindgaming with your ability to hide your red stain is not standard to m1 killers because m1 killers cannot do that. If mindgaming with your ability still makes you an m1 killer that would mean a top tier killer like The Spirit is an m1 killer.
To even further elaborate the examples I gave, Trapper can set his traps in the middle of a chase to block a loop, however I say this is not exactly viable because 1. the survivor will likely respond by using the time create distance and move to the next loop, leaving you with one less trap in your hand or no traps if you're not running those add-ons 2. If you decide to pick up the trap because they've moved to the next loop they can move back to the loop you decided to un-trap putting you back at square one and 3. You just placed a trap down quite obviously in view of that survivor, as soon as they get a chance and you're not chasing them anymore they are going to disarm that as soon as possible. This is why Trapper is an m1 killer because it's not entirely viable to use traps in the middle of chases, you can, especially for really long loops, but you can't expect it to end that chase you're currently in.
Likewise Legion's feral frenzy ability has no survivor-downing capabilities, he can injure survivors quicker than anybody else but he cannot down them with his ability. You must down them with his m1, this is what makes him an m1 killer
Finally yes, Plague is an m1 killer because most of your match you aren't running on the high tides of corrupt purge you're going to be stuck with vile purge and that only injures and breaks survivors. Much like legion (without corrupt purge, which you will likely hardly ever get because nobody ever cleanses) you must m1 to down someone and your ability (under normal circumstances) won't help you do that.
I don't see how this concept is hard to wrap your head around, M1 killers have an ability that does not help them end chases. Trapper, Legion, Plague, not Ghostface, why? Because he uses his night shroud ability to down survivors. Every time he mindgames a loop in a jungle gym because he hid his red stain with nightshroud he displays capability beyond an m1 killer, every time he surprises someone self-caring in a corner or catches someone in a dead-zone because of his 0 terror radius with nightshroud he displays capability beyond an m1 killer, every time he pulls a survivor off of a generator because of his 0 terror radius with nightshroud he displays capability beyond an m1 killer, every time stalks a survivor exposing them and downs them in a single hit down from a full health state into dying state with nightshroud he displays capability beyond an m1 killer.
By your own flawed logic, if using your power does not matter and still make you an m1 killer because you are still clicking m1 to down survivors with no other option to down them, almost every killer is an m1 killer. By your logic: Nurse is an m1 killer because "the only way for her to down someone is with an M1", Spirit is an m1 killer because "the only way for her to down someone is with an M1", Hag is an m1 killer because "the only way for her to down someone is with an M1", Freddy Krueger is an m1 killer because "the only way for him to down someone is with an M1"
You see how your dumb logic falls to shambles?? Because all these killers I just rattled off use their abilities to end chases more quickly but technically "the only way for them to down anyone is with an M1"
Moving on to this whole idea that "Ghostface doesn't have map pressure" uh, yeah he does. Not in the conventional way like your average Hag's placing traps everywhere and teleporting to them as soon as they go off, or Hillbilly speeding across the map, or Freddy teleporting to generators but by being undetected. By being undetectable, Ghostface can move in and around the map without survivors knowing whether they are right next to him or not his map pressure is quite literally the idea that he could be anywhere. Sure he just downed a guy across the map, but how do you know he didn't immediately leave the area and make a beeline straight for the generator you're working on right now? That unpredictability of where Ghostface is and when is incredibly powerful. Survivors won't move off generators because they don't hear you close by making for easy downs or chase starters, and they won't hide behind cover or run as soon as they hear your Terror Radius because well, you don't have one. See map pressure doesn't just mean you can move quickly around the map, it means that you are providing pressure everywhere, and the idea that you could be "anywhere" can be just as powerful as whether or not you actually are.
Oh and you want to talk about perks? Let's talk about perks. While you bring up the same one STBFL let me just rattle off several that fit on Ghostface like a f*ckin glove.
Nurse's Calling - Catch survivors healing in a corner, or in a dead zone, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there
Barbecue and Chili - Catch survivors repairing a generator or literally anywhere, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there
Bitter Murmur - Catch survivors running away from a generator right into you, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there
Discordance - Catch survivors repairing a generator, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there, apply pressure on the right generators at the right times
Surveillance - Catch survivors repairing a generator, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there, apply pressure on the right generators at the right times
Thrilling Tremors - Catch survivors repairing a generator, surprise them by knowing exactly where they are when they have no idea you're there, apply pressure on the right generators at the right times
Sloppy Butcher - Works well in conjunction with Nurse's calling, forces them to take more time to heal which you can still hear while sneaking around the map without aura reading
Thanataphobia - Works well in conjunction with Nurse's Calling, forces them to take more time to heal which you can still hear while sneaking around the map without aura reading
Make your Choice - Leave the hook, and sneak back for an easy down while they heal, if they ran just follow the scratch marks and blood unbeknownst to them
Just to name a few. Basically any aura reading perk works great, any perk that increases healing time works great, any perk that identifies gen progress particularly is one of my favorites and while all of these are just generally great perks overall they do all work specifically and especially well in tandem with his power.
Also, you want to talk about a better mindgame? All I have to do as a survivor is bank right or left if I need to dodge that extremely telegraphed lunge you're about to make. Otherwise, I'm calling your bluff and just straight up gaining distance while you move at 92% mov. speed, that lunge is not hard to deal with in the slightest.
Your big talk also does not bother to explain why there are no Demogorgon's out there at all, especially in red ranks. Maybe not as viable as you thought? 🤔
Sorry mate, but all the evidence points to Ghostface being flat out much better than Demo. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
You've honestly made some really good points about ghostface that have changed my opinion about him. I'm also not going to argue who is better because I haven't played a ton of ghostface so my opinion would be very biased, but some of your points about demo seem kinda flawed.
First, I don't really ever see any of his portals as useless, even if the gen you have placed it on gets completed, you can still use the portal for mobility if you happen to be on that side of the map. He has six portals in his base kit (Up to 8 with addons), so even if survivors don't cleanse you will only lack a portal on one gen (and if they didn't cleanse you should have a portal relatively close to it).
Second, his shred is not as easy to avoid as you say, at least against a good demo. Even without running rat liver (an addon anyone who plans to main demo should use) your strategy isn't that effective. If a survivor runs left and right to avoid it you just gain distance and if you remain straight you just get shredded. When he shreds he moves at 460% speed (for reference hillbilly only moves at 230% speed in his dash) which means that if you don't preemptively dodge then there is no avoiding it. With Rat Liver his movement speed is increased by nine percent to 101. So even if you run straight he will continue to close distance.
Third, pick rates don't have anything to do with the strength of a killer. Hag has the lowest pick rate in the game and she is definitely a top tier killer, you might argue that the reason for that is because hag is boring but Oni (also top tier) has a low pick rate as well. I also see plenty of trappers and Bubbas at red ranks as well, doesn't mean they are good killers.
I know I'm kinda late but I thought it would be fun to give my opinion on my main.