Tanadris
Tanadris
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- Tanadris
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2913798#Comment_2913798
Disagree.
Even if I know I'm about to go against a 4 DH, CoH, UB, DS ect squad, the knowledge alone doesn't convince me that the situation I find myself in is fair nor will it stop me from feeling frustrated.
Even if something is strong, if it has reasonable and achievable counterplay, people are less likely to be so upset. It's why DH and NOED have ALWAYS been such hot topics. Their counterplay just isn't reasonable against even average players.
I'm sure cognitive dissonance does play a role, but I highly doubt it's the main contributing factor.
NOED has reasonable and achievable counterplay. I will not discuss Dead Hard because it distracts from the issue being discussed. It is really easy to lump some of these perks together.
NOED costs Survivors nothing to counter aside from 70 cumulative seconds of time on the totems and the time it takes to find them. If you do not find all the totems before 5 gens, the sound of totems being active is distinct. If you believe your goal in every match is optimal play, get out as fast as possible, and avoid getting hooked, in a public match, then anticipating noed should be one of your goals to eliminate a potential barrier to your success.
If you spent the whole match banging out gens and not getting a totem in between, which generally spawns next to the gens, NOED being active can most likely be the survivors fault, sans the rare 'cannot be found' totem with good placement or the totem next to the hooked Survivor (my personal least favorite scenario).
If people inherently believe that cleansing totems are a waste of time, especially in a solo public match, they are digging their own grave and have no reason to get frustrated if NOED shows up.
These arguments always spiral into discussions about other things, but NOED is no way, shape, or form, in the realm of what SWF or Meta Survivor play.
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Some of you think four minutes is a long time and, for me, shows how much growing many of you have to do.
You have so many other ways to use your time and some of you choose to get mad every game. Your anger and frustration is valid, but if you already know you are going to be slugged, or if you already have enough information to know they 99'd the door, why do you allow other people to make you feel powerless? You don't die in real life; go get some water or take a stretch break. Do anything else but get angry at something you will forget 4-10 minutes from now because you are gonna queue anyway.
Yes, this one situation sucks, but it is one game out of hundreds. Why spend 4 of those minutes, across hundreds of games, getting mad every time? That energy adds up.
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As a Killer you have to anticipate everything coming. Survivors usually have the luxury of anticipating what is coming once they have enough information.
NOED bypasses this anticipation/information stream and causes cognitive dissonance for Survivors. Cognitive dissonance is mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes. Most survivors believe they are safe when 5 gens are done. When cognitive dissonance occurs, the most common reaction is frustration followed by anger. When situations go a direction we do not anticipate, we get confused, then frustrated, then mad.
This is the heart of NOED hate. A lot of survivors do not believe it is in their game, and when the reality hits, they get salty.
This is my advice for everyone playing: If you anticipate every scenario, you won't ever get disappointed when they happen.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2876366#Comment_2876366
Eleven hooks... Like... Three kills is enough?
Three kills is enough to get merciless killer under certain conditions; if you get your last hooks during endgame collapse, for example, you get bonus points and end up meeting conditions for a win; if you know you are only going to get one person hooked and are close to a door, it may be beneficial to open the door first and then hook the survivor.
Editing to explain that a 3k with the last survivor being hooked during endgame collapse has increased value and may be enough to not worry about hunting down the 4k.
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Game needs to last at least 8 mins; Chases need to last less than 45 seconds with a hit; Need at least 11 Hooks; need at least 20 weapon hits.
If you nail all these criteria, you will get merciless killer every time.
Hope this helps.
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Slingdeather
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Tournament structures recently have shown the value of coordinated play, so people that love the game, and watch youtube content that considered themselves 'average' beforehand, most likely improved just by watching groups of S-Tier Survivors play in a well-structured, team-oriented format.
Efficiency shot up on the survivor side. Makes it harder for Survs.
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The MMR System doesn't care if Survivors are doing well and don't belong at a certain MMR, and put them all together. It will INSTEAD place lower ranked Survivors with the BETTER Survivors and then you have to spend time figuring out who is the lower 50% of the Killrate and will you be able to be the 50% that survive.
The game does not create the best possible team to secure a win, it places you in the highest probability of a 50% chance to Survive, but does not factor in the skill of the Survivors you are placed with, just their MMR. So low-tier Survivors on a winning streak will suddenly appear in higher-tier games, unintentionally sabotage that game by playing at a lower skill level, and the Killer then has a higher chance of walking out with a 4k.
When the game puts you in the best scenario to have a 50% chance to Survive, it does not factor in skill, and therefore lowers your chance to Survive intentionally by placing you with worse Survivors. Also makes climbing harder.
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@fulltonon said:
I haven't seen a single PvP game where playing good is considered "jerk"
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2822012#Comment_2822012
In this game, playing good is considered "toxic" 😂
@Brimp said:
Depends on what you think as "playing like a jerk" on either side. If it means playing to win using any (legal) methods than I guess I'm a jerk
You are missing my point: Playing well with a Killer/Survivor isn't the issue. Its about the consistent need to play optimized that is the problem. There is minimal room for relaxed play as you climb. Its all business. How many games can you play at your best before it gets tiring? And when you want to not play at your best, and try for a game less optimized. how often does the system provide you with the sweatiest groups, furthering the fatigue? This isn't about 10 games, this is about 50 games, 100 games, 200 games. And then doing it all over again on the 13th of every month. It's about having to optimize even harder if you are off meta to secure an MMR win and a Pip.
There is less room for letting your foot off the gas now. And if I had to provide you with an analogy for it: Just because your car can go 200 MPH, does not mean you should always go 200 MPH. This game, in its current state, encourages you to continuously play as hard as possible to win; it isn't healthy in the long term.
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@Mandy said:
MMR has absolutely nothing to do with map rng. Completely separate systems.
I need to preface what I say by stating that 'unfavorable', in my opinion, means the Killer's power has a LIMITED ABILITY to affect the game's outcome.
I'm going to rehash this because this scenario happens too often:
Lets say I alternate between 4 Killers: Trapper, Huntress, Artist, Shape.
Game 1: Trapper on The Game
Game 2: Huntress RPD
Game 3: Trapper on The Game
Game 4: Artist on Grim Pantry
Game 5: Artist on Grim Pantry
Game 6: Shape on Coldwind
Game 7: Huntress on RPD
Game 8: Trapper on Macmillan Estate
Game 9: Artist on Grim Pantry
Game 10: Artist on Artist Map
Game 11: Shape on Coldwind
Game 12: Trapper on Ormond
So across the maps, I receive a degree of variance, but on individual killers, FOR THE MOST PART, I get the same maps leaning unfavorably. Now the MMR system will put me in a position according to its own ends, but the maps increase the difficulty due to the variance of levels that DUE TO THE UNFAVORABILITY of the maps, makes it feel that certain maps are TARGETED to the Killers I play. In my opinion, this occurs TOO OFTEN to be random. I will be making a spreadsheet if I muster the initiative to do so.
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Update on this post:
Final Amount: 4M BP for Rank 3 BBQ
Pain. 5 Killers left to get it on! Woo~
Thanks for all the bonding through mutual trauma.
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I always wanted a spectral knight character that wielded a spectral great sword.
The power would be that he could horizontally slash through terrain, and it was dodgeable at a certain distance but not at close range, so the power was a guaranteed m1 at lunge range but a counterable wide arc attack up to 10m with an audio cue when it was charged to slash.
Edit: forgot the add that the counter at long range would be to crouch, but it could hit survivors working on gens or interacting.
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Do you have BBQ and Chili? Any killer becomes point viable if you have that; but I've had the most success for point farming on Wraith, Legion, Artist, and Demogorgon. I run perks to generally keep survivors in the game as long as possible, so sloppy, than, bbq and SH Pain Resonance.
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So there is some kind of issue with chain hunts currently where the person who picks up the box, if it is at a certain time, will still get hit by chains, so they end up tapping the box if they were working to immediately solve it. Happens to me when I play Survivor sometimes and I pick it up right when the chain hunt starts or when I go to pick up the box and chains keep coming.
May be a part of it; good luck out there.
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767177#Comment_2767177
Stop thinking the Killer trying to win is 'toxic'; problem solves. You'll get less angry over dying on the hook because you stopped thinking it's 'toxic'.
Again, you missed the point regarding this being a systemic issue, please look up the definition. These behaviors wouldn't be deemed toxic if the system in place didn't punish Survivors by having long wait times between matches. So I believe Survivors, due to the system essentially double punishing them by putting them with a Killer that tunneled them out of the game, and then forcing them to wait 10 minutes for the cycle to possibly repeat, have valid complaints about the Killers they encounter. It isn't merely 'just move on' its 'move on and wait for another match, and have the uncertainty that it will happen again to you'. The waiting makes the experience stale because now I have to wait to be tunneled in another match. Killers don't have this issue because their queues are instant and they dictate the survivor experience.
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Trapper
Blind corners or grass that is on the way to a hook, in the direction from a generator, sometimes yields better trap hits than placing a trap near a survivor.
Always place traps 1m out from a window to catch fast vaults.
When placing traps, think about how you would move about the map and place there.
Sometimes, you can't win games, and that's okay, just focus on maximizing point gains and move onto the next match.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2767177#Comment_2767177
Well sorry to say that's not a killer problem it's a dev problem thanks to them making the meta basically all but set in stone and making it where killers have to think they have said perks along with making most killers not up to par to what the game wants.
If you are already aware of the systemic issue, it makes no sense complaining about Survivors complaining. You're justifying a method of play built within a flawed system that makes the experience terrible for individual survivors. Killers have to ENDURE toxic players, but they get to be in games more often. If Killers, who will naturally experience a higher volume of games (and therefore players) due to the way the system is built, do not develop a thicker skin, they are just shouting from a position of privilege that Survivors simply cannot reach due to game volume being drastically different on both sides.
So let them complain until the system is fixed. I'm trying to get 1M BP on both sides this month and I have to wait 5-10x longer as a Survivor to get matches. Of course toxic play is going to annoy me as survivor to no end; I don't have near-instant queues.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
It's something in the game, the devs deem it viable and more killers mains agree that it has to be used at some point or another.
So what else make it toxic?
"It'S unFuN" well unfortunately the game is unbalanced and tell me how many thought of that when using the meta perks that has gotten stale as hell ,bm the killer and private message the player to harass them.
You're right. But if I spend 5-15 minutes in a queue, and get camped tunneled or slugged in every game, that's an hour of toxicity that I have no control over.
It's ultimately a combination of factors rather than just one aspect of the game. Killer queue's are wayy shorter for me, so I can see Survivor frustration over people 'playing the game the way they want to'.
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Barring any Outliers like S-Tier Killers: Map Variation, Perk Design, Pallet Distribution, and Hit Validation have a high chance to be Survivor-sided. My success as Killer should not be dictated by Survivor mistakes, but the state of the game wills it to currently be that way. Survivors always want to focus on the most efficient pathway to victory, so, given the state of the game I just described, again barring any S-Tier Killers, why would I not also focus on being efficient?
3v1 is easier than 4v1.
Edited for clarity. 'S-tier killers' is the only outlier.
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My fellow Killer mains outing themselves in a post meant for Survivors :x
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@tester said:
Sooooo many threads NERF that, BUFF that. Look, it's very simple: don't sweat and you will get opponents who don't sweat.
I earnestly believe this game is more of an attitude check than a Win/Loss check. The less time you spend in lobbies complaining at the end, the more games you play, the more points you earn, the more opportunities for good games you get. Control what you can, starting with your own emotions. Its okay to get frustrated, but the response to getting frustrated matters more than what got you frustrated in the first place.
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Update: Fixed it via a driver update! Hopefully anyone having this issue may also have it fixed doing the same thing.
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We stuck bois.
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@OldHunterLight said:
What platform are you playing on?
On PC Client
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I waited for 20 mins last night and gave up so I might need to run a timer to see when queue actually pops. I love playing both sides but man I haven't played Killer since Sunday night.
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I'm just under 1k hours. 35k Players online rn. But I have like 800 Killer hours so Idk.
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@devsNEEDtoWORK said:
Can't. Being subjected to near constant Hex:Ruin results in a lack of words.If only there was a perk that allowed you to find totems within a radius, and possibly another perk that granted a bonus to that radius, that would possibly be out of meta but helpful and solve your complaint.
But there probably isnt :[
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Hag for sure. Added pressure on the unhooking survivor; "Do I stay and heal or get booped?"
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In my opinion, Pip difficulty should scale with one's skill at each individual Killer; like a sliding pip scale. I have 700 hours on Trapper, so pipping should be difficult for me unless I 4k.
This would force a new system to be created though, as my doctor is complete trash, so my individual playtime with specific killers would matter more depending on my time played/number of 4k's with certain killers? Not sure about the details.
Safety pip has saved me with Killers I am trash at, though, which is something I feel is needed when I am using Killers I don't normally play; BUT if my skill with one killer was taken into account, and therefore adjusted my sliding pip scale to a lesser degree, that would be interesting to see.
Side thought:
Would be easier to implement with addons imo, if I use an Ultra Rare addon, my pip score scale would slide into a harder setting, or something like that. If this was something we could 'opt-in' to, it would allow BHVR to add in some kind of leaderboard associated with the sliding scale and addon use (Oh he got a 4k with ultra rare addons and the hardest pip setting, wow, but this guy got a 4k over 100 times with common addons #########?!)Idk, I'm spitballing at this point, but I do like the idea of added pip difficulty.
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A common thing I do is initiate Madness Tier 1 as soon as possible, so I can navigate the map without being randomly found due to the first scream.
Also, don't leave three gens right next to each other. If the doctor is sitting on three gens waiting for game to reach 1 gen, then try to get your team to pull him away, or try to stealth them as best you can. Properly placing gens for Killer to have LONG patrols is essential for zoning Killers, like Trapper, Doctor, Hag, and soon to be Clown.
3rd option is to bring key; avoid the last gen problem, especially if you see the Doctor abusing a 3 gen placement.
Good luck.