StikMC
StikMC
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- StikMC
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I wasn't complaing about killer. I WAS pointing out that camping and tunneling are unfun aspects of the game. I play both sides. I play Killer no perks or addons and WIN most of the time. Just look at the actual suggestion. What would be so bad about guaranteeing 5% (or more) regression while a survivor is out of play (thus reducing effectiveness)? Really? How is this whining?
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The difference is in knowing what designates a win (which is necessary in any game). The other difference is that 12 hooks is possible, but 12 hooks with everyone alive is impossible.
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@Ohyakno said:
So if you get twelve hooks you get like fireworks and streamers as the survivors run out the gate? Nobody dies? Does a big banner drop out of the sky congratulating you on your apparent victory? I don't understand how you envision this.
Ummm. In any format, if you get 12 hooks, all four survivors are dead. None of them will run out of the gate. I don’t think you considered the facts while you were ideating your sarcasm. 12 hooks means they all died anyway. So I don’t understand how you invision this scenario that is literally impossible whether my concept is adopted or not.
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@Crowman said:
No one is playing killer with the mindset that if they get more hooks, they win. Survivors don't even treat number of hooks as a win condition for killer.
I actually agree with your assertion. But I’ve heard a few content creators state they would adopt that mindset. Part of my post is to poll those who would actually adopt that mindset and how many would just keep working for 4 kills regardless of hook actions.
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I don’t know if it would work or not, but I’d be willing to test it. It’s similar to my post as a general concept.
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I think any action toward the ultimate end should progress toward a win con. So if I get 12 hook states but only have 4 actual hooks, I might score (or even win if bottom line kills is the win con). But I would want any killer to score higher he he had 9 actual hooks. If I could ever make my dream come true and run a tournament, 4K MIGHT get you a great score. But the TOP POSSIBLE score would be 12 hooks on 12 unique hook actions.
I’d push for 10 hook actions as a win con (if a survivor fails an escape attempt, it’s credited as a unique hook action). That’s at least 2 kills and an impressive score.
But that’s just me, and I’m wondering what others think.
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Same thing is happening with me. Really frustrating.
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I’d love to be able to do that. But the problem is people who DC and kill themselves on hook. It’s agony to be left to amuse a killer who now only has one human to play against. But I’d love it more if the game simply cancelled if anyone DCed. I’d love it if the punishments were more harsh. I played somewhere around 10 games last night, and people did that on first down. They didn’t when they realized they were playing skull merchant. They did it when they didn’t like the map. It punishes those left behind trying to just play the game.
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I can’t second this enough. The number of times I’ve thrown a pallet when I want to heal or jumped in a locker or on a gen when I wanted to vault. This one change would be one of the best ever.
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at least let me see my own MMR
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concur.
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Curious, how would a Survivor gaining Killer instinct, therefore telling the Killer where they’ve been hiding for the last three minutes, punish the killer?
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Another stat I’d like to see:
Breakdown of average escapes/kills
What percentage of games do 4 people escape?
32
10.
I actually have tracked my own individual stats, and I’d love to see how it compares to the community at large. -
second
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ohhh, I’d love that, Rumble. Same with escape rates.
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Why do you affirm it is better to surrender than give survivors some way to play the game? This idea has merit, but I would make one shift. This ability would ONLY activate when there are only two survivors remaining. That solves the main problem ( slugging for the 4K). I’ve already made a post asserting how broken EndGame is and how that needs to change. But slugging a guy out is just misery for anyone. Why should I give up? Instead, for the killer to either hook me and move on or risk me getting back up and in the game. So if the killer slugs for one minute AFTER the Survivor has maxed out recovery, they can get up. I play killer. When I kill the third survivor, the fourth only escapes a literal (I keep my stats) 25% of the time.
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What if 1) when the killer hooks, it is automatic teleported to the most progressed gen (so he can pressure gens and the map and find a new chase). This also denies camping and hinders tunneling. Both sides get something. Then, to reward NOT tunneling, if the killer is in chase while a survivor is on the hook, gen speed is regressed by something like 5%. That way Survivors have to get the unhook or lose efficiency. The debuff ends when the hooked survivor is saved. Yes. A teammate can just unhook right away, but that Killet STILL had a new target in a critical area (high progressed gen). So everyone gets something.
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I am pro hug tech. It takes a LOT of skill to master, and it should be rewarded. I’m a survivor main, and when a Kill gets that hit, I’m honestly impressed. Just my opinion.
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I disagree. I keep my own stats. In 700 games, the average gens done per game is around 4.2. Sure. Three gens usually get done, but as they get done, tha map shrinks and the resources dwindle. I would even argue this is by design. I play no perks or add ons. Sure, sometimes the gens fly, but ai still win as much as anything else. One perk or even a map offering skews that more to Killer. I’m not even particularly good at looping, and it’s still my favorite part of the game. But the data I have (and I can only offer my data) shows that gens 1-3 fly. Gen 4 takes about 200 seconds, and gen five rarely gets done. I’d pay DBD money to release the gens done per game stat. But that’s my data such as it is.
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For the record, I’m not particularly a Tru3 acolyte or anything, but I have given the concept some thought and think it has some merit. But even if you scrap that idea, I’m still trying to solve the real problem. EndGame is an RNG-based luck of the draw. I think it should in some way be skill based. The problem is it’s unfair to one or the other and a joke. One comment said to set the doors, and that’s a thought, but it needs fleshing out. Nurse wrecks any concept like that. True, we don’t play a nurse literally every game. But you need to account for her.
EndGame may or may not be healthy (I don’t think it is, but I won’t debate opinion). However, it’s quantifiably unfair. That’s the problem I’m trying to solve. I can’t account for player psychology. But if the system gives both sides a fair chance, that’s what I’m after. -
I’m not saying it’s a perfect concept, and I’m open to alternatives, but can’t we agree the current version is worse? How about this. What during the 1 V 1, the killer power is disabled, but all movement speed changes to 118 ( a bit of a speed bonus). I remember dBD before bloodlust. Without it, I could run around a truck for two minutes and never get caught, so I don’t know that I’d deactivate it. But maybe slow its progression timer?
I’m trying to offer viable solutions that address your concerns. Is this a step in the right direction?Maybe turning the power off completely is a bit much. Maybe give a 10 second or 5 second cooldown. Like I said, I’m very open to alternatives, but something has to change.
Feel free to post your own alternative. “Yes” is good, but just “no” or here’s why that won’t work” only shut down the conversation.
My goal is a viable EndGame where BOTH roles have a chances of winning.
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Xernoton, I disagree, but I’m willing to hear you out. How would you disincentivize them? Why are they strategic components? Why are they necessary if not for gen speed? I’m open to hearing you out.
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NOTE: Two versions of my reply got posted in eedits. Sorry. The points are the same, and I can't seem to delete the redundant data.
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I play both roles. I stream and post my vids on YouTube. I'm currently playing 100 games of every killer without perks or addons. After 600 games accross 6 kilers, I have a 58% kill rate (the DBD average for all killers (most of whom probably use perks). I havea 51% win rate. I'm 82 games into a 7th killer. I based my suggestions on the results of this particular expirement. If I can win consistently without perks or addons, I probably have some right to express these thoughts. Again, my kill rate is right in the average, so I can't be "Low MMR." At worst, I'm average MMR (wich is way more of a myth than you think if you watch Hens333, who plays with the best in the world and might be the best himself).
Did you miss the part where I increased the time it take gens some 30 seconds? Why would that make it harder? Wouldn't being able to pressure gens faster and use your gen kick perks (which despite being nerfed are still top 5 meta, so they can't be that bad) be more effective? If you claim camping is necessitated by gen speed, isn't making it harder to do gens and easier to pressure gens a reasonable solution?
All but two of those Survivor Perks you mention have at least some requirement, but there isn't a SINGLE Survivor perk that makes it impossible for a Killer to do his job. Meanwhile Kilers have Grim Embrace, which does in fact literally make it impossible for Survivors to advance their game goals. So it's not the one sided world you want to paint. Grim makes it potentially impossible to do gens for a total of 88 seconds. Wouldn't you freak out if there was a Survivor perk that blocked all hooks for 12 seconds each up to 100 seconds? I think Killers would lose their minds. On that note, if a thing (haste/preventing one side from being completely unable to progress their goals) is bad for one side, it's bad for both sides. If one side would freak out over a similar perk for the other side, it shouldn't be a thing. Also, Pop, Pain Res and Eruption can eliminate 65% of a gen up to 4 times, meaning Survivors would have to do 9 gens instead of 5 because they basically have to redo a gen four times. All that is just mathmatical fact, and I don't use those perks, and I still win more than I lose becuase I can camp and tunnel. I do so to prove those are real problems that need to be addressed by makeing chase and hooks and gameplay matter rather than 3 gens camping and tunneling. Is that really such a terrible thougth?
Then you talked about maps. I'm just lost there. I already said there are maps that are Surivovor sided and maps that are Killer sided. The fact that you dissagree with my examples and then provide different examples confuses me. The maps are imbalanced right? So lets balance them. Why is that a bad idea.
This idea makes it possible for a Killer to chase, hook and kill Survivors without having to feel the "need" for these nuclear options. Also, watch Hens' video on camping. If the best in the world say they don't need to do it (and they do), then what happens if they decide to? But this proposal makes it so those things (universally unfun for both sides) impossible, while removing any claim to need it. Gens take 33% longer, and you can hook now (not slug) because you know that hook will get you into your next chase and right to the gen you're trying to pressure. So hoenstly, just take another moment to think about all this and then provide me data (actual data). All you did was point out survivors have perks (as if Killers don't, when I dont' even need them), and that maps are unfair (which I agreed with). If you have data-driven reasons to say this idea woudln't work, I'm open to it. But are you open to considering a game where gens don't fly in 230 seconds and you can actually chase and down Survivors?
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First, let me say I also play both roles, and I play Killer without perks or addons. Thus far, I've played 100 games of 6 different killers (82 games into a seventh). I sitll win. So I play both sides, and I can quantify (I keep my stats, stream and post my vids on YouTube) just how dominant the simple strategy of camping and tunneling are. Add perks to that, and Survivors dont' have a chance. Camping and tunneling are useful because of gen speed, which is why my final suggestion would make gens a base of 120 seconds (currently 94 seconds). This combined with the hook teleport allows you to pressure gens and snowball more effectively. How easy do you want Killer to be?
Why assume I don't play both roles? I do consider myself a survivor main, but if I can play and win consistently as killer (58% kill rate and 51% win rate) without perks and addons, I feel like I have evidence (statistical and video evidence) that I know what I'm talking about rather than assumptions about how much I play one side (or even if) I play both.
I'd be willing to test your first idea regarding the meter, but it still doesn't address tunneling. Why not develop a mechanic that actually allows the Killer to immediately snowball and pressure gens? That's why I suggest teleporting the killer to the most progressed gen. If you argue camping is necessary to counter gen speed, doesn't 1 (increasing gen speed another thirty seconds) and 2 (making it easier to pressure survivors and use all those gen kick perks most effectivey) address that issue and remove that requirement?
You point out all the gen perks Survivors have, but you act as if the Killer perks are irrelevant. Again, I remeind you: I play without perks or addons. I play gen rushers. Sure, 1 out of 5 or even 2 out of 7 games, I get worked, but those are the exceptions and not the rule. "Well your MMR must be low" according to DBDs stats, my kill rate falls right at the game average (58%).
Regarding your second point: I already suggested gen speed be increaed a full 30 seconds. But even if I didn't, you act like the Survivor perks are insta gens. Note there are 7 perks (including Weaving Spiders) that have gen bonus. All but two (deja and quick gambit) have requirements that need to be fulfilled. If 4 survivors bring gen speed and tool boxes. Sure if 4 survivors bring 4 BNPs and have Prove, they can do 1 gen fast, but it's only one gen. Most of those perks require wasting time or survivors to gang up (which is inefficent). Deja and maybe hyperfocus together are the most efficeint; however, Killers have 1 perk that literally makes it impossible to do a gen (grim embrace). Yes, it requires a hook, but if you can't catch and hook a survivor in 120 seconds (based on my recommended increase), you have skill issue, not a blance issue. Also, Pop, pain res and eruption all three remove 65% of a gen, meaning you can basically shut of one gen four times, forcing survivors to basically do nine gens instead of five because you're cancelling out 65% of progress four times.
So again, help me understand how terrible it woudl be for killers to have 30 more seconds to build momentum while also being able to pressure and kick gens immediately?
My third point was to fix maps. Why are you pointing out maps are broken? I already agreed they are and must be balanced. I dont' understand. I think all maps shoudl be balanced consistently so that the map in and of itself doesn't determine whether the Killer or Survivors win. Pick your maps. For every Erie of Crows, there's a Midwitch. They ahve the same issues.
So my arguments aren't violent, and they're not based on inexperience. They're based on data and context. My plan would make it easeier for a Killer to win (not harder), while making the actual gameplay more fun. The only difference is Survivors woudl have to earn their escapes by looping instead of just running from a gen into the deep part of the map. Why is that such a bad thing? Are you sure you read the propasal? Did you not see the standard increase in gen time to accoutn for the issues? Did you not see the data I provided. Again, most of the games I can keep gens from being completed for 500 or more seconds, I win, and if gen speeds get increased to 120 seconds, the fastest the gens can be completed (base kit assuming a Killer can't get a single down in 120 seconds), would be longer than the current world record with 4 of the best players in the world (so hardert).