SN34KYSQU1D
SN34KYSQU1D
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019351#Comment_3019351
The current listed changes are a step in the right direction.
Enhance players after the unhook but in a way that trying to leverage it aggressively (the ol BT body block) comes with the cost of squandering the added benefits (the speed boost).
We’ll see how it plays out and if it’s enough or too much to be basekit.
I gotta admit I’m kind of in the mind these days that camping doesn’t really need a direct solution as I said sometimes it’s the appropriate play to make.
Indirectly “solving” camping by providing incentive to chase and switch targets is probably enough, that’s just my own opinion on it.
EDIT: True the survivor has to sit there too but non participation is one of the threats you face from the killer and a substantial one at that. Maybe something more entertaining than spamming buttons or repeated skill checks would lessen the monotony though.
Yeah, it's just that to me, if the way hooks function were implemented into any other game, people would be pissed off (rightly so), but here, people just accept it.
Like, imagine playing Call of Duty and they made it so that when the enemy kills you, you have to sit there for a minute doing absolutely nothing and then for another minute, you have to do really bad QTE. No one would play.
The problem is that it requires a large overhaul to fix because by BVHR's original design, hooks on the survivor's side are only engaging when you're new to the game.
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@Sheridan_LT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018632#Comment_3018632
This is just an awful terrible change, I agree that Bubba camping with chainsaw should be nerfed but what the hell? You consider SHARING A TERROR RADIUS WITH THE HOOK a camp? Please, just. Be better at survivor. That is sad. The whole point of doing a risky unhook when a Killer is either nearby or turns around to see you is that it's risky and puts you in danger. Survivors shouldn't be rewarded for having 1 dedicated genrusher that sneaks around and does all the gens and 1 unhooker that unhooks in your face right after you hook.
Killers should never be forced away from a Hooked survivor because while a survivor is hooked, you don't HAVE to unhook them. You can just genrush around. If you want to trade, that's your problem but there should be at least a trade happening. This would also massively slow down hook timers.
The problem is that for that player who is hooked, you've now turned a suspenseful game of tag into the worlds worst rhythm game and you're no longer allowed to play the game you wanted to simply because a killer decided they only want one cheap kill.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019301#Comment_3019301
Dude I have no Idea what your even talking about bit I guess thanks for just jumping in the conversation, I hope in the future you let other people give their opinion instead of trying to blame others but I guess we're both toxic that's way
I disagree, but good luck, have fun.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019259#Comment_3019259
Yeah, I think the take home message is to incentivise chasing over camping.
There are times when defending a hook is appropriate and solutions that are punitive undermine legit hook defence.
Also punitive solutions often aren’t very good and tend to be exploitable
A lot of the suggestions to combat camping are punitive not because it makes sense but rather some people get annoyed by camping and want to see players punished for it nothing more.
It becomes an emotional argument not a rational one so typically doesn’t lead to good solutions or suggestions.
What the tests showed was survivors were just as willing to exploit hook state, by not rescuing when there was no need to, as much as killers were trying to exploit it by camping the hook.
The former would lead to protracted games of non participation for hooked survivors as they hung on hook for the duration of the game while their teammates just refused to rescue them because they didn’t need to.
That's really interesting, I still think that with enough time and effort, a solution to camping can be found. I would even argue a reasonable solution would be remove the "hooks" from the survivor's side altogether.
Meaning the hooking mechanic stays, but allow the "hooked" survivor a way to contribute to the game nonetheless. Either as a spirit or telepathically, since all the aura abilities hint that the suevivors have supernatural abilities of their own. Because I don't know that the camping is the issue as much as the waiting is. If the killer wants to sit by the hook, whatever, they can bore themselves like that, the problem is the survivor ALSO has to bore themselves there.
Plus that would mean that they can still earn blood points while in a hook state.
The only concern is that method would either take a lot of coding and time or would likely be a boring minigame itself.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019248#Comment_3019248
Ok look im telling you I didn't say it to be toxic I gave my opinion like I said it's funny how the only killer that's said something different I being labeled toxic or irrelevant
And as I've said, what you said lacked any critical thought or meaning beyond an antagonizing statement. But that's fine, not everyone is willing to admit when they've been toxic, I just hope at some point you find it in you to reflect and improve.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019200#Comment_3019200
PTB for patch 1.1.2 in 2016 I believe.
After that they implemented infinite first stage but instead of gaming around the hook to buy time for their team mates with a paused timer survivors instead just left the person on hook all game.
The great irony of trying to stop hook camping with increased and infinite timers was survivors “camped” their own team mates by not even trying to rescue them.
Hmm, interesting, I'll have to look that up. Arguably, you might just be able to give that killer 0 BP as a punishment, but that's a bit of a heavy hammer solution, which I don't love.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019195#Comment_3019195
Dude.. What's the deal again it proves my point a killer main sayes something different and you can't handle it why does my comment have to be irrelevant because I'm a killer and I didn't agree?
It's not that you "said something different," but that you didn't say anything at all, and instead, just antagonized. Again, all I care about is that the game becomes more healthy and less toxic. If your own toxicity isn't something you are willing to address right now, you don't have to keep discussing this, but no harm in admitting you made a mistake.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018632#Comment_3018632
They tried this it didn’t work.
I'd actually love to know more about this, as I've never read anything about them testing this. Do you know where I could find that?
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019146#Comment_3019146
Omg why do you care this isn't even your discussion? Of course the one time a killer gives a different opinion and you guys can't handle it
I can handle it perfectly fine, I'm not attacking you, calling you salty, or any of that, but you were minimizing reasonable frustrations because you play killer and that's only going to lead to toxicity. Why are you so upset that I'm pointing out how unhelpful that is?
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019099#Comment_3019099
My goal is to be fair thats the whole point of the comment the game is not called survivors I was providing my opinion
You were saying that survivors often complain, which is a statement that doesn't contribute anything more than saying "huntress throws hatchets a lot." It's true, but doesn't move the discussion forward, nor does it make anything more fair. If you disagree with the ideas put forward, explaining why you disagree or asking questions about it is going to get a much less hostile discussion and maybe even find good solutions.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3019048#Comment_3019048
He committed to me duh and who are you to tell what to talk about if you can open you eyes to read enough I was having general concern for something but apparently to your he need some production
I'm not telling you how to talk, simply letting you know that if your goal is a healthy and non-toxic game, saying "survivors are always complaining" is counterproductive and doesn't contribute to the discussion.
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@Huntressmain_1223 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018859#Comment_3018859
Obviously you feel something with my words because you keep constantly commenting on them, maybe you're the one taking something personally when a killers comes in your little survivor discussion and says something different
SALTY
Look, at the end of the day, you came into this discussion minimizing players' frustrations and contributing nothing to the discussion. If you really care about the game being healthy and non-toxic, this is counterproductive. If you have legitimate concerns about suggested changes, talk about it, but this isn't how you do that.
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@Brimp said:
Not an exploit if its literally a strategy endorsed by the devs themselves. If they were exploits then they would be reportable which they have said in the past... isnt reportable.
Just because the devs say it's a "real strategy" doesn't mean it's healthy for their game. And when said strategy turns your horror game of Tag into the world's most boring rhythm game, it's safe to say that tactic is going to harm your player base and your reputation.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018679#Comment_3018679
Once again the survivor can stay near the hook but not be in chase as chase only triggers when you hit a survivor or you are within what like 12 meters of them and they're holding the sprint button? Overall chase mechanics are finnicky as you can be staring at a survivor at a T/L running past the corner and no chase trigger but you just randomly get a chase notif from a survivor sprinting on the edge of your screen.
Right, so you're a trapper setting traps next to the hooked survivor, it's only been 10 seconds, so the timer hasn't stopped yet as it has to be a total of 20 total seconds of non-chase presence to activate. You see a survivor nearby.
Option A) You begin to chase, it takes 5 seconds to get into chase and your camping timer pauses at 15/20 seconds (assuming you're still in the radius of the hook), meaning the survivor has only has 45 seconds left and will continue to lose time.
Option B) You continue to camp, the camping timer hits 20/20 seconds, the survivor has 40 seconds on their current phase until you leave and now you're wasting your own time.
Option C) After Option A you lose chase and go back to camping, the survivor has 15 seconds by the time your camping timer reaches 20/20 and you're back to wasting your own time.
And that's assuming you're a killer who needs to set up for 10 seconds near the hook, which is a small minority of killers.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018650#Comment_3018650
You don't get my hypothetical situation. People trying to bait the killer away don't get within swinging distance of a killer. And by it being an exploit, if one of those were to be a real thing added. I'm pretty sure the dev's wouldn't intend you being able to force a killer to camp to get a benefit by making the person on hook die slower.
Going for a greedy unhook should result to someone at least down or dying on hook. Sure 1 person might die but the time bought would be so tremendous that the good play the killer would have had just turned bad because one survivor was messing with how the mechanics work.
(In case you didn't see my original suggestion above, I would ask that you do for context.)
Then add another rule: if the killer is in chase, the timer doesn't stop. Either the Survivor or the killer must stop moving for the timer to stop, which incentivizes the killer to chase instead of camp, and the survivor can't just be cheeky and try to buy time by running circles around a hook. And this means a Bubba with a proclivity for kissing hooked survivors only benefits when constantly moving after another survivor.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3018637#Comment_3018637
Because mostly every community made suggestion could easily be exploited by the survivors. I've seen people suggest slower sacrifice rate if the killer is camping, simply works like pyramid heads cages, can't use power, etc. All of them except can't use their power can just be exploited by survivors to force a killer to camp to just make that feature entirely in their control.
How is that an exploit? They still have someone incapacitated, (so 3/4 progress) if they down the survivor "exploiting things" that's two survivors incapacitated (1/2 progress) and when they leave to catch the other two, the timers resume normal speed.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Camping is always going to be an issue. There's no way to fix it.
It doesn't have to be if BHVR implements extra mechanics like Prop Night that stops the hook timer under specific conditions (like Camaraderie). Create a radius for all killers that stops the timer if you stay within that radius for too long and create a Line-of-Sight mechanic for killers with range or speed like Huntress or Blight that slows down the timer, the longer you stare, the slower it moves. And if done based on a killer by killer basis, this could make a huge difference. Unless the code is so finicky that they can't mess with the base hook timer (I wouldn't be surprised, coding isn't easy, especially with older codes), there's no reason they haven't implemented things like this yet.
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I played this version on the PTB as both killer and survivor and while I really enjoy The Onryo's flavor, she seems fairly underpowered. She's not fast, her stealth isn't that great and she has no reliable way of condemning survivors.
I feel like upping the radius of condemning while coming out of a TV would be super helpful in this regard, but she still suffers a lot while trying to loop survivors. This means that even if a survivor gets their meter to full, she can't capitalize on it like Pyramid Head and his barbed wire.
Maybe Condemn could cause broken until it is cured. This would make the meter more concerning as right now, a healthy survivor has to be hit twice by a killer with no range.
Otherwise making Condemn more permanent could raise the stakes. Maybe inserting a tape could revert less than it does or you gain it passively while near a TV just like while you hold a tape.
Again, her style and design is super interesting, but I can see her shortcomings really tanking the fun of playing her and I don't think the solution to her weaknesses is just to make her fast. If anyone has other suggestions, I'd love to see them.