Ittrix
Ittrix
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At the highest skill level the game is survivor sided, except against similarly skilled folks playing meaner killers (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc). The type of person to care a lot about the balance in the game is generally the highly skilled competitive type, so… that's why the shorthand answer is usually 'the game is survivor sided'.
It's not such a simple question, though. And outside of those circumstances it's quite a toss up, depending on what killer we're talking about, the skill levels, the maps, whether players have comms, and to a large degree what strategies are 'on the table' for each side (genrushing, tunneling, or more specific killer tricks like basement trapper).
Unfortunately, I think the more apt question is which side has more 'un-fun' moments or strategies that are miserable to the other side.
Y'know. Things like getting slugged for 4 minutes because the killer wants a 4k/mori. Downing someone in an area of the map where you literally can not carry them to a hook in time (cough badham's basement cough). Going up against a full SWF who are all running exponential, flip flop, break out, and boil over. Playing against a ghost face utilizing knockout whose intent from the start is to win via bleedout. Trying to finish a game against the last two survivors who are both hiding and playing for hatch. Playing against Chess Merchant. Having a Legion Moment. Getting put into a match where your entire team intends to throw from the start for tome challenges. Getting flamed in the postgame chat by 3-4 people who were in a bully squad.
Honestly I'd say soloqueue puts up with the bulk of that. Easy as it is to write it off as nothing but a temper tantrum, It's why there's such a 'gg going next' mentality. Killers get their fair share, but their equivalents are either less miserable or at least have a chance for counterplay or flashy turn-arounds.
I care less about balance and more about this.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
1 out of 10 last night.
And it wasn't even that bad, the killer got bored and chased a survivor trying to bait him away from the hook after about 10 seconds.
But, if you refuse to counter play a face camp, expect to have a bad time.
Last I played they had lengthened generators enough that without specific perks you wouldn't actually finish until he got guy #2 as well.
That still a thing?
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My reasoning is pretty simple. It's an exploit. The exploit itself only benefits survivors.
It ought to be removed, but it's so rare I can see why people wouldn't care.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/352820/should-cj-techs-be-removed
Are CJ techs actually an intented function or is it really an exploit??
I think it looks like an exploit, (i could be wrong tho) but if it is... it should be fixed.
Pretty arguably an exploit.
game is programmed so that killers can't interact with pallets when a survivor is using them (via sliding over).
Survivor purposefully slides over so when the killer tries to break the pallet his target changes and he picks up a player instead.
Everything in the code is working properly, it's just definitely not in a way that was intended. That's textbook exploit.
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@Hex_iButt said:
Still a thing. Tunneling was addressed, and even buffed from the initial changes they made to basekit BT, but camping is still around to a degree.
I heard they were gonna add BT to basekit. You're dead on with tunneling and not camping. You'll still trade, and since everyone always has it now killers can probably still just wait it out. Maybe if BT effected both the survivor unhooking and the survivor being hooked. Probably would be strong on the survivors end, but... jeez, whatever makes the game more active than 'look deeply into the killers eyes like you're goin in for a kiss for 10 minutes and then go back to the queue'.
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Hrm. Yep, I'm not buying a character to make camping less of a grievance. Especially if the perk doesn't even help that much. I'll be back in like six months I guess.
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@RatbasterdJr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3185022#Comment_3185022
It’s an asymmetrical game in which you may play however you like within certain parameters. There’s a lots of perks for being a “solo” survivor. While it may be frustrating, there’s nothing wrong with what Dwight did.
I feel like I just had to have this talking point about tunneling and camping yesterday.
Yes, there are advantages to ditching all your teammates from the literal beginning of the game. I don't think anyone's saying there aren't.
Ideally, the game wouldn't incentivize this sort of behavior because it kills the game for a lot of players.
Long long ago, when Soccer wasn't even the name of the game, you could camp the ball by trapping it with your body. Infact, if you were ahead in the game and there were 20 minutes left, it was quite advantageous to turtle yourself over the ball so no one could do anything with it. Do you think people gathered around and said "Hunh. Well, he's got reason to. As frustrating as it is there's nothing wrong with what he's doing."?? No!!
They said "Wow, that's frustrating and not very fun for anyone else. How about we make it a rule to stop that?"
Same goes for here. While I wouldn't say you need to cooperate with your team always and forever as there are times the game is lost and you should take what you can get, maybe don't incentivize abandoning your team from the start and playing the hatch game?
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@Ittrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188816#Comment_3188816
That's such an annoying way of approaching it.
Yes, killing the survivors is the goal of the killer. And yes, camping helps them achieve that. I don't think anyone here is in denial of that- on the contrary they know it all too well because they won't stop doing it.
Ideally the game wouldn't push a strategy that takes the fun out of the game entirely for some players. Soccer generally doesn't let you kick your opponent in the crotch, since that isn't very fun for them. Hyperbole example out of the way, soccer also doesn't let you 'camp' the ball by trapping it with your body for an extended period of time- because again- that isn't fun for other players. There was a time at the game's creation where it was allowed. They got rid of it because, once again I can't stress this enough, it wasn't fun for the other players.
Until it's not incentivized or allowed any more, what else is there to do but collectively get together as a community and say "Y'know, this isn't really very fun to play against. It's not very cool of you to do that on a regular basis. Can you stop, please? It's shameful."
I genuinely just reinstalled the game wondering why I ever stopped playing it. Played 3 survivor matches and got camped 3 times.
The game's uninstalled now.
oh, and this goes for a lot of things survivors do too for the record. It isn't very fun as a killer for survivors to just magically know things that they shouldn't since they're in a voice chat. It isn't very fun as a killer for survivors to abuse ledge mechanics after they're downed to get free flashlight saves or waste the killers' time. I think they ought to be disincentivized or disallowed too. What else is there to do in the meantime but call it out as ruining other players' fun and being shameful to do?
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3188766#Comment_3188766
This is the only game where you are shamed for using all available tactics to win. No other community insists that the 1 in the 1v4 play in a way that gives their opponents a greater chance to beat them, simply because "sportsmanship". That's not what sportsmanship is.
That's such an annoying way of approaching it.
Yes, killing the survivors is the goal of the killer. And yes, camping helps them achieve that. I don't think anyone here is in denial of that- on the contrary they know it all too well because they won't stop doing it.
Ideally the game wouldn't push a strategy that takes the fun out of the game entirely for some players. Soccer generally doesn't let you kick your opponent in the crotch, since that isn't very fun for them. Hyperbole example out of the way, soccer also doesn't let you 'camp' the ball by trapping it with your body for an extended period of time- because again- that isn't fun for other players. There was a time at the game's creation where it was allowed. They got rid of it because, once again I can't stress this enough, it wasn't fun for the other players.
Until it's not incentivized or allowed any more, what else is there to do but collectively get together as a community and say "Y'know, this isn't really very fun to play against. It's not very cool of you to do that on a regular basis. Can you stop, please? It's shameful."
I genuinely just reinstalled the game wondering why I ever stopped playing it. Played 3 survivor matches and got camped 3 times.
The game's uninstalled now.
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It's pretty rare I'd get a killer who would just facecamp right from the get-go. Most of them are retaliatory, or just want at least one kill and call it when the gates open.
That's the boat I'm in. If you tick off every toxic survivor trick on the box, I'm going to assume killer toxic tricks are on the table for you. And, depending on how hopelessly I got matched by the crap matchmaking, I may say "enh it was a close fun game, I can give them a chance" and I might say "screw it, I'm at least taking one."
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Aside from balance (where I think killers have to play very well to win compared to survivors having second chances out of the wazoo), it feels like the devs just glaze over the more technical side of issues killers deal with.
All of the bugs left in the game disproportionately hit killers. Want to pick up a survivor? Survivor can crawl to a window or pallet. Even if you know about and expect the bug, it forces you to face in whack directions which leaves you vulnerable to flashlight saves.
At least you can expect that normally, yeah? No, because there's a bug (commonly referred to as a 'tech', CJ tech or something?) where the survivor can slide across the pallet to change the interaction at the last second so you'll pick up the survivor and get locked into the animation. Then they will spam the flashlight into your face.
These are not listed as a bannable offense anywhere in the game rules, btw. Killer exploits are, though. No idea which, but the devs went out of their way to mark them.
Voice chat is also openly allowed by the devs. There's no way it doesn't give an unfair advantage among groups who know the game well. So many perks can single handedly be replaced by voice chat. As well as a lot of things that aren't perks.
Communication apps are literally "3rd party software", and while only if intended, they can be used "to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game". The parts in quotes are legit pulled straight from the Game Rules. "Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us. We are not banning for the use of communication apps."
I get that they can't police it, or that they're worried the game will lose a lot of business if it isn't allowed.
It still feels like a huge middle finger every time I'm screwed over by it though. Everything else aside, the survivors using it sucks fun from the killer and gives the survivors an advantage.
TL;DR, Survivors can get away with using so many more morally gray tactics. On top of that, lots of third party software is legalized for them, and their bugs aren't treated as exploits.
It's rough. So I generally don't play killer and only play meta schmeta killers whenever I do.