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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860152#Comment_3860152
I really can't imagine that BHVR wants people to be able to play in a way that removes all the fun from their opponent's experience. It's likely they just don't have a way to deal with tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k, and bully squads without removing a necessary way to deal with something some people on the opposing side will do.
For example, because bully squads exist, killers need to be able to slug aggressively and potentially engage in tunneling, camping, etc. Without certain tactics, killers could be bullied without a way to turn the tables on such players, which would make playing killer a very bad experience. Likewise, I think BHVR feels a need to keep flashlight/flashbang/stun saves, because removing them would take away a major game mechanic that isn't inherently toxic.
I would imagine that BHVR would limit all those things in the survivor and killer side if they could, but that they find that removing one of those will leave them unable to preserve balance in some situations. But then that leaves it in the players' hands to ensure that all players can enjoy their games.
Really though, no online game is meant to be a competitive sport except inside of certain gaming leagues. Pretending that DbD or any other video game should be treated in the same way as MMA or professional football (American or the other kind) is a dramatic misrepresentation of why people play the game. We're all playing to have fun, and just like with any activity we do with other people, we should be considering whether the people we share that activity with are able to enjoy their time as well. The only real exception to that should be things like professional sports, but online gaming isn't that outside of pro- or competitive- leagues or tournaments.
I get really surprised when I hear people playing games for fun with other people and then hear them say "It's not on me to make sure you have fun." It's always our responsibility to make sure the people we share activities with can enjoy them with us.
It's likely they just don't have a way to deal with tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k, and bully squads…
They do they're called perks, and if survivors really have a problem with these strategies personally, they should run the perk that counters it. Instead they don't do this, and prefer to complain about killer strategies so BHVR nerfs any variance in playstyle into the ground, and in doing so makes the perks themselves have less of an impact on less games overall.
…no online game is meant to be a competitive sport except inside of certain gaming leagues. Pretending that DbD or any other video game should be treated in the same way as MMA or professional football (American or the other kind) is a dramatic misrepresentation of why people play the game. We're all playing to have fun…
I fully agree with this sentiment, but just because we want it to be true doesn't make it so. Just because people play for fun, doesn't make it non-competitive. DBD has always been a competitive game, only in the last few years has that emphasis on comp over fun been hard pushed by BHVR. The over-prioritisation of balance over fun, the insistence on not only the implementation of MMR but it's setting of kills/personal escapes as a win condition, the removal of the rank system giving players no idea of and no control over the kind of games they get, and the promoting of this kind of mindset to the incoming playerbase.
I only compared the game to MMA facetiously to make a point, but the whole idea is that I shouldn't have to make that comparison at all. Every year I play this game the more competitive it, and the community, gets. Every year playstyles are crushed by BHVR, which only forces out even more desperate and boring gameplay and gem-defence metas. BHVR doesn't want people to play in these ways, but in gutting them, gives no other options back. This is why we still see the exact same regression perks that have been meta for years, we still see proxy camping, still see slugging for 4k. The game design in pushing harder and harder for comp play, so comp play is what we're gonna get. This design is coming from the people who view the game in comparison to hockey, we really shouldn't be surprised this is happening.
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@Atom7k said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3855630#Comment_3855630
I agree that it is the most efficient strategy but I don't feel like this is sportmanship.
If I play a game that challenges my brain and my skill why do I do everything to bypass the challenge?
Yes it is hard up to impossible against comp teams but to be fair those are not as common as people think.
It was the same in Lights Out.
The challenge was no scratch marks and low vision.
People played legion to bypass it. It is smart on the initial thought but bypassing the challenge invokes the question of why even trying the challenge.Because… fundamentally… people like to win when they play games. The challenge is how to win the match - not how to get he most hook states, not how to win while also letting the other side have fun, not how to pip and rank up since ranks mean nothing anymore - the goal is to win by getting at least three kills, by any means necessary. This is what the devs and the game push as the win condition, therefore, people are going to find the most efficient and reliable way to secure that win.
This is like saying that knocking-out your opponent in MMA is bad sportsmanship. It's the most efficient way to win the match. They don't care if the opponent only gets to fight one round. They won the match, so it doesn't matter.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, it's just the way it is right now. People play competitive games to win, and DBD is a competitive game apparently. The end.
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@HLuccaSkywalker said:
I'm so tired of the BS perks that killers constantly have to worry about whether or not they're even being used. Back before this trend started, if you downed someone on a pallet, you just had to glance around and listen a bit to see if anyone is nearby, and maybe somebody would be hiding further with sprint burst to surprise you once in a blue moon. Now, you have to worry about Light-Footed, Background Player, Dramaturgy, etc. Not to mention if the downed survivor has a power struggle build, then it's an automatic lose-lose and you get nothing. Either you pick up right away and they get rescued, or you wait even a few seconds and they can save themself for free. And slugging also does nothing because they most likely have a way to pick themself up if they're running power struggle, and even if they don't someone else will come do it in three seconds.
Then there's the silent flashbangs around corners (I'm aware it's a bug, that doesn't make it less BS.) so survivors can escape chase for free by pressing one button at the right time or save a carried survivor without having to try at all. Doing 40% of a gen and then getting in a locker for 2 seconds doesn't count as a side quest worthy of getting a powerful effect.
Now looking at killer perks, there are quite a few that kind of just break the game. For one, new Thrill of The Hunt is completely absurd. I recently played survivor against it and one of my teammates finished a generator solo before I finished the totem. Only for that to be the wrong totem. Cool, I spent almost a full minute cleansing nothing.
I also am not a big fan of Coup de Grace even though it usually flies under the radar. I think people ignore the fact that one quick down can change the outcome of an entire game, and Coup makes that much easier. There's also no way to tell a killer has it until they use it, and at that point it's a little late, because they already got that potentially crucial early hit. There's too many perks like this on both sides that have way too much power and are easy to underestimate. Thankfully MFT got nerfed quite a while ago, but it wasn't exactly unique.
Now we have All-Shaking Thunder which STACKS WITH COUP in case you didn't know, and provides basically the same effect as Coup does. Some windows were already useless (like the one that can spawn on Ormond right above the bar window, where if you're injured when you reach the top window you just die unless you have balanced landing or a good chunk of distance since you can't vault the bottom one fast enough, and the Garden of Joy main building window that just drops you in a dead zone) and now those kinds of windows are even more useless because now if the killer just has a specific perk it doesn't matter if you have distance there since they can just get a massive lunge instantly and catch up with no issue.
I'm on the opposite side of this spectrum. I think less perks should be announced to the other side before they're 'revealed', so to speak. As a survivor, I love when we get to the end game and suddenly BOOM! Killer has NOED. It's surprising, comes out of nowhere, and shakes up the state of the game in a way I wasn't expecting. It's the same with Spirit Fury. It strikes you out of nowhere as soon as you think you have the upper hand, and you then have to figure out how to play around that in future. Flashbangs, DH, Background Player; these are all things that spice up the game in ways that are, at first, unexpected, but once you find out they're in play, then you can figure out how to play around them or even turn them to your advantage. The exception I think is persistent perks like Caulro or old MfT which could be otherwise difficult to identify despite having a constant effect.
That being said, I know I'm an outlier on this, but I think this kind of chaos from both sides makes the game more fun, as opposed to knowing EXACTLY what you're up against from EVERY opponent, EVERY game, EVERY time.
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Because it's the most efficient strategy and the game incentivises kills over hook states. Before many gen regression perks were nerfed, killers could afford to go for more hooks, because more hooks = more regression. This is no longer the case, so, for as long as the game refuses to encourage going for hook states over kills, killers will go for the most efficient strategy to get kills, which is tunnelling, slugging, and camping.