canonjack001
canonjack001
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- canonjack001
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@Frizouw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648870#Comment_3648870
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648761#Comment_3648761
I strongly disagree.
To convince me you need to share multiple games of killers that you struggle against 2 survivors left during a public match as an evidence of your statement lmao, when I say struggle, like you are flawless and you still have issues. I want to see it.
2dead2alive means 2survivors escaped and 2dead, clear enough?
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The fact that the game is balanced(2dead2alive) even with tunneling.
That means killer would lose(kill<=1) every game if they are not tunneling.
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I would suggest you to finish one of them before actually 3gens.
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It is just a pure M1 killer with tons of useless gimmick as long as the condemned condition is 16m of opened TV.
They may need to review why they need to rework for first version.
Survivors just need to turn off a single TV then they can sit at the generator for 70s.
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@MrMori said:
This may drown in the floods of feedback, but I'll give my two cents.
From a raw balancing perspective, both the lock on condemned being unlimited, AND the no cooldown condemned were fine. Good players understand how you gain and lose condemned, as well as how TVs work.
But a lot of people have no clue. You shouldn't nerf her strength to appease players that literally do not understand how the killerpower works.
However, I get it. It's a little strange, she's had many reworks, they don't know. But that's okay! Because just like the changes to Skull Merchants scan lines becoming white, you can show them!
Make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR when someone gains condemned while near an active TV , that THE ACTIVE TV is the reason they are becoming condemned! Have it glow with a dark aura! Have it darken their whole screen, except for the TV! Show them the danger, and they will quickly understand "I have to get away from this TV, or turn it off!"
This was the ONLY change Sadako needed from the PTB. That's good game design! You did a great job with her in the PTB, but your takeaways completely missed the mark. Her problem is not her strength, it's the clarity of her power.
The reason for reworking and adding CD after PTB is that dev don't want Onryo teleport frequently for condemned and chase survivor normally.
The PTB version allows Onryo to teleport into "wrong" TV frequently to have condemned stack, so the rework is meaningless if they maintain original PTB version.
However, Onryo would still teleport frequently as long as she need to gain condemned via teleporting.
So it is not a good game design actually.
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One big problem is that dev try to make teleport "skillful" in chasing, but it is just not viable.
By comparing with Dredge, Onryo teleport animation takes longer time(3s) which allow survivors to run away for long distance, and the teleport point is very few(7max but nearly 0 available)
As a consequence, we need to spend longer time to chase if we want condemned stack.
If dev really want to encourage chasing rather than teleporting, just integrate the condemned stack into chasing related event (basic attack / injured / dying / hooking).
Otherwise, Onryo would still teleport frequently and pray someone doesn't turn off her TV.
Lastly, please don't put her face back before her jump scare.
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The generator at the center of map become a lot easier to be repaired.
It was blocking me while there were actually 5-6 generators left on the map, which is not reasonable.
Survivors can abuse this mechanism by only repairing 5% to stop the regression and wait my next kick until it is blocked.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640737#Comment_3640737
Maybe that could happen, but condemned will always encourage to go for the highest condemned person, so there won‘t change much.
The thing is her current version is worse than her first and second one. The first one allowed good tp gameplay and ok condemned. The second one allowed very good condemned and bad tp gameplay. Now her third version is just her second version with bad condemned and no tp cooldown, which doesn‘t change much, when all TVs are turned off.
I try to explain why her tp part got worse: There are two essential factors. 1. The second rework made all survivors turn off all tvs near them, because they want to counter her condemned. Same goes for her new rework. 2. Tv auras make it impossible/ very difficult to use her teleport in chases/ approaches (to get close to survivors through the Tvs), because survivors do always see the aura disappear.
All in all I think my ideas above would allow both ways to be in a good spot without only focusing on one aspect, because global condemned will always make survivors turn off TVs around them. And if they feel like my idea makes condemned too weak, they could add that survivors get condemned regardless of teleporting after some time (every 30-60s you get one stack).
I agree the current version is the worst version ever, but survivors would still turn off all TV around them to avoid killer teleport to them, no matter global condemn or not.
So the condemned spreading via opened TV is not viable.
I think the previous version of global condemned is just good.
They just need to make the condemned lesser via teleporting and add global condemned via basic attack as a compensation in order to encourage chasing survivors and teleport lesser.
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I don't know why dev make 0cd projection while they don't want Onryo teleport frequently.
Now Onryo also spread condemned upon teleporting, but in more difficult condition.
If they really want to encourage Onryo to chase survivors, just make the global condemned lesser in teleporting and add global condemned upon basic attack in previous version.
16m of a opened TV is not a viable way to spread condemned because survivors can turn off TV for long time without any risk easily.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640470#Comment_3640470
Therefore I really hope they go back to her first version and buff it. I think that only the one tv you teleport to should give condemned and then the area is split in three parts like I wrote above, where you get more condemned the closer you are to the Tv, when she teleports.
I think this is a nerf and encourage killer to focus on a single survivor with condemned.
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@Skitten56 said:
I see a lot of people suggesting that they add ticking condemn back to survivors holding a tape. However I think there is a problem with this. This is because BHVR needs to address the counterplay issues in her kit, as a priority but adding ticking condemn might tilt the scale towards the other side and lead to a Onryo where survivors can't effectively engage in counterplay. Right now the counterplay is way too forgive towards survivors and makes it easy for them to deny and punish Onryo without giving her the means to work around it. This must be addressed.
However if BHVR does address the issues regarding her counterplay, and then decides to add ticking condemn to survivors holding tapes, I feel like it is too much for survivors to have to deal with as it would put them more in a lose lose type situation. Survivors would be pushing for grabbing a tape to protect themselves but also punished if they don't grab a tape. This would be a problem. As long as there is a global condemn type system where Onryo can spread condemn on multiple points of the map by teleporting I think ticking condemn is too strong.
I do propose a compromise solution though. There has been talk about making Yoichi's Fishing Net add-on apply ticking condemn by making it look something like this:
Yoichi's Fishing Net:
- Projection no longer applies condemn. Tapes are no longer broken upon being hooked
- Survivors who take a VHS tape slowly gain condemn when not in chase. (22 sec per stack) This effect lasts until they drop their tape off at their assigned TV.
This change would provide a means for Onryo to work around survivors doing the counterplay of turning off TVs and denying her mobility. It would also discourage survivors from touching her TVs like in 1.0 to avoid a condemn threat as they would become cursed for grabbing a curse tape (lore accurate!).
The result would either be survivors let her have free control over her mobility or take the risk of getting caught with a tape and getting condemned.
It might need some tweaks but I think it would be a fun add-on to play with. I'd love to hear what you all think.
It should be her basic power, otherwise this killer have to bundle with a specific add-on which is not a healthy playstyle.
Also, It is just a give and take situation. Survivors can either spend some time to return a tape or hold a tape to do their work.
Now just too many useless design in Onryo which is more suitable for add-on:
- condemned lock, who need condemned lock while survivor is being hooked 2 times?
- 0cd projection without condemned stack, it is just a trap that make every TV closed.
- condemned stack within 16m of opened TV, just too hard while survivors can turn off TV for 70s in 1s.
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@Skitten56 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639338#Comment_3639338
Having access to such high mobility can be 100% worth the trade off in the hands of a skilled Onryo. Its a teleport but unlike the other killers you mentioned, it has no cool-down and can be used at a will. With the proper adjustments so survivors can't just run around rapidly turning off every TV, it is 100% worthy of its place as a strong Iri-add-on that augments her power in a fun and unique way.
I know many Onryo players focus on her condemn pressure, but some of us also know how strong her old map pressure was and know how to take advantage of it. This add-on will be alright if BHVR fixes it so survivors can't abuse it.
I wouldn't say it's high mobility.
Survivors can just simply turn off a single TV nearby the generator, so you just have the "high mobility" to wrong location then you need to walk like a normal killer.
I would say it is a weaker Dredge, at least the locked locker just make you exit slower.
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The most frustrating thing is punishing killer for the survivors fault
If you think game time shouldn't be that long then just make the 60min end game mechanism earlier
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TLDR: revert
Now survivors can completely deny Onryo power by closing TV.
Onryo cannot condemn survivors anymore actually.
16m of opened TV is a very hard condition, because survivors can always turn off TV before repairing.
And the risk of holding tape removed, it is a double nerf to Onryo.
Also, Onryo need to teleport to "wrong" TV to prevent the "correct" TV get closed by teleport, which is not a healthy playstyle.
Onryo pretty rely on the execution to win the game because her chasing ability is nearly zero.
I would say the previous version mechanism is pretty balanced, just adjust the stack value a bit if it is too strong.