WillRat
WillRat
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@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721527#Comment_3721527
I don't mean to come off rude, but I've already said my piece. I don't feel the need to discuss this feature further as I have little to no doubt it is never going to happen because it overall feels really unnecessary, and the only solution you have to my points is "let's make it much stronger, then", which not only should this not be added at all, the last thing it needs is to become stronger. This feels like those types of changes people will dislike because it just makes survivors go "oh, this perk combo now has less uses because it's punished, i guess i'll put on these meta perks instead." this is the type of change that LOWERS perk variety, and makes games more stale. I'd take all the people trying silly things like Overcome + BtB in chase, We'll Make It + CoH healing in chase, rather than survivors stop doing risky things and just play really safe and glue to gens and just run meta perks because the fun stuff is being punished because of niche scenarios…because why do fun things like going in the killers face and doing dumb things if it's punished? Idk, I just feel this is a very poor idea. Nothing against you personally, obviously, only stating this because I genuinely don't like dogging on people for giving suggestions. It's just … I'm honestly kinda speechless on why someone would want this in the game.
Fairs fair, I get what you mean. No harm done brother we're still playing the same game at the end of the day.
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@aewi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721502#Comment_3721502
Overcome and BtB normally breaks you out of chase because you make big distance plus you stop running, so your nerf wouldn't apply as it's only for survivors in chase. and let's say you're still in chase, somehow. This means the survivor is healing really close to you with Overcome BtB, because if they were far away, chase would break. This feels like… a nerf to BtB's best use, which is Overcome BtB niche "gotcha" moments. Overcome's obviously a great perk, but BtB is specifically really only good for goofy interactions like this, so it feels like you're unnecessarily punishing BtB which is hardly anywhere close to a meta perk for something that is 90% Overcome's fault.
We'll Make it + CoH is much more likely, but this is also noticeably niche because you have to have We'll Make It up. this includes someone with We'll Make It having to have unhooked someone very recently, AND for CoH to also be up. it's not impossible, but i feel balancing healing in chase in every match ever just because of situations that only happen sometimes is really strange.
plus, let's say you do get this scenario. first of all, YOU NEED TO BE IN CHASE. 1) this implies you're chasing a survivor, and they stop running and heal someone with We'll Make It + are also in CoH boon, which I'm genuinely skeptical how this is common enough of an issue to require an overall nerf, but let's say it does happen. You will almost CERTAINLY get a hit on one of these survivors, if not more, because they're all grouped up in your face. All that happens BEST CASE SCENARIO for the survivor team is one survivor gets healed to full, which will be IMMEDIATELY lost because they're healing in your face, which means they'll literally at best get a net neutral. You get minimum one injure, possibly two to three depending if it's a double heal or single heal, and two survivors minimum are not on gens, and instead are in chase with you or are next to the person in chase and are possibly injured depending on how you played the situation with them all grouped up, meaning you have BIG snowball potential.
2) 15% isn't going to stop people from healing in your face with We'll Make It + CoH if they're confident, which is normally why they heal in chase. the only reason someone would try healing someone in chase is if the other survivor is very close to being healed, or they have a teammate ALSO healing them, meaning they will NOT be in chase, meaning that that survivor will NOT have the penalty. If we're talking competent team, the heal will still go off.like, we're not talking about meghead who runs up to survivor in chase injured and starts healing their injured teammate and they both die for it being a negative for the killer, right?
the only thing maybe is they mess up a skillcheck in your face because of your extra skillchecks.I agree on the usage of BTB however I said before it is a lingering effect, say hypothetically 20 seconds, so if you were to escape chase you aren't able to make the best use of your medkit for the 20 seconds after you escaped. However I do see the probability of the survivor not being able to guarantee any safe survivability since they might wait out the 20 seconds only for the killer to find them again.
Balancing BTB because of overcome is a great point however and I understand the philosophy, my point of view stems from the pre-nerf Green medkit + botany + overcome BTB stealth heal, which would give an 8 second heal (granted you actually packed another charge addon to get the heal) and somewhat felt like a smack in the face, which is why I put in the pressure idea in addendum since I would like medkits reworked but you can't get medkits reworked without the probability of the stealth heals coming back, which is why I supposed the trade offer of self healing with a medkit having 10% extra speed base but you do have the lingering effect.
As for the COH + We'll Make it, really the Co-Op heal cap of 120% I feel would counteract this huge semi-problematic circumstance. However I would like to tune the numbers a bit more such as possibly 133%/166% speed, and to reiterate say you're on an indoor map (which I recognize is a point of contention as an INDOOR MAP problem and not a HEALING problem) on rpd and somehow you lose someone that was in chase inside of a CoH boon and someone with botany/we'll make it performs the heal in the small window you grant them for them to fully heal, albeit unlikely.
The heal cap in this scenario would provide the killer a bit more "refund" on a bad play as to not immediately lose the pressure they had in the hypothetical window it takes for them to regain tracking on the wounded survivor, but still provide a heal speed boost (although I'm not sure if it should work on the HEALER survivor as they weren't in chase)
As for the -15% speed as I said before, it would be an overall CAP on healing speed for recently chased survivors, not so much a small penalty on heal speed. Which is why I then pointed up possibly adjusting the cap to be a bit more forgiving of heal build survivors going from 300% healing speed to a hard cap of 120% for 20 seconds outside chase. Assuming this pressure mechanic gets added and bhvr fine tunes it to the point survivors & killers are at least tolerable of the mechanic
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721501#Comment_3721501
I don't view mending and healing as the same actionAnd that's the problem. Mending can be VERY oppressive when built around correctly.
Forgive me if I might miss your point but isn't this already in the game? an oppressive mender wouldn't have much of a difference with these changes since in my perfect world (not perfect) it would only affect healing, not mending. Although I do recognize and share a similar hesitance around say a mend legion which is why I think they should compensate healing perks like botany with mend speed increases
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@aewi said:
I don't feel the reason to nerf healing in chase other than… just to do it? It's not like it's very strong at 100%. Healing in chase is already dangerous. The only reason I can see for nerfing it is to be horror thematic or just for the sake of nerfing, both of which I don't really feel are appropriate reasons for nerfing something that already isn't a problematic mechanic in the first place.
I do agree medkits should have some little quirk that makes them different other than altruistic healing speed though. They're much too similar. Even flashlights are more unique than them.The reason I thought of the heal speed cap is just so those who run overcome & bite the bullet with a medkit aren't given a free way to heal against a killer not running nurses, or the potential We'll make it + CoH because even though those circumstances are rare, a survivor duo who can recognize it and play on a strong map where the killer is likely to make errors or pockets for survivors to hide. Just to essentially remove the possibility of a killer losing incredible pressure due to losing the survivors for a small window of time, but also not entirely gut a heal speed bonus
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/414550/i-think-healing-needs-a-rework
With all the healing nerfs that have already happened, if another rework on healing were to take place it would also mean the gutting of perks like botany knowledge (once again). Might as well just remove the perk from the game at that point. It's good to have a healing alternative without having to rely on a 1 charge medkit. Just imagine your changes vs a spam mend build, no chance.
I don't view mending and healing as the same action, and I don't believe the game does either unless they pushed out a monster patch that tied them together.
As with perks like botany I view the previous form of botany (33% increased heal speed) as my personal favorite form of botany, maybe not the efficiency bonus as even though it makes logical sense, I believe botany shouldn't aid item efficiency instead it should boost just heal speed and by chance if instead of gutting it what if they added a mend speed bonus? its not a perfect replacement for the 33% item efficiency bonus, but it would be an effect no other perks have, while also making desperate measures sit in place again as now DM is sorta pointless to run compared to botany save for the unhook speed boost