VASRIO
VASRIO
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@Zakon05 said:
Just saying: if you are in a situation where DS/OTR would turn off before you can use them, you aren't being tunneled. Tunneling happens straight off the hook and no other time. The rest of the time it's just the survivors misplaying.
Well, that or you just ran the killer for 60 seconds and DS lapsed before you can use it. Good job!
There's a gray area between being a 12 hook andy and gunning for someone straight off the hook and trying to lump all of that in as tunneling is a bit extreme.
Edit: If you really hate being a priority target of the killer because you're closer to death hook than your allies, that actually is what OTR is really good for. The only part about OTR that turns off when you touch a generator is the endurance. You maintain the aura reading block and silent groans of pain, which means there is no reason why you should get found again unless you're being careless or working on unsafe generators.
Straight off the hook tunneling is what happens. Nobody goes for the unhooker in the current state of the game, always for the one unhooked. Always.This is a problem.
There needs to be some sort of immunity that doesnt get disabled the moment you get hit off the hook, because then anti-tunnel mechanics really do nothing. Key word - immunity. Not endurance. Endurance tanks one hit.
For killers like Nurse, Blight etc. getting 2 hits in 10 seconds is a piece of cake.
When some killers have an easier time using the game's toxic mechanics, you know you have a problem. Let us also not forget that those same killers like Nurse and Blight have no problem ignoring anti-camp mechanics too, as camping from 16 meters is nothing when they're literally a second away from the hook with their powers.
What are we doing? There's clearly a problem here by design.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721479#Comment_3721479
You're focusing on a band aid fix that targets a symptom and not the core problem. That's why this idea won't work, among other reasons.
Why are people DCing? From my perspective, the game has had the fun drained out of it steadily for the past couple years almost every patch. Literally any time survivors are getting anything other than 'stare at gens forever' as gameplay it gets complained about and nerfed or just plain deleted.
Maybe it's because tunneling is still far too strong, and getting found first means you just don't get to play that match. Here's your 5k bp, go Wait in queue for ten more minutes and maybe someone else will get tunneled next. The only nerf to tunneling in two years was the DS change to 5s, and that was immediately nerfed again for literally no reason.
How about making the core gameplay actually fun, and people will want to play? Instead of making the gameplay a coin toss between tunneling and camping or gen repair jockey. People are burning out and just don't realize it yet.
Trust me when I say, most give-ups have absolutely nothing to do with tunneling. Most give ups when I play survivor, happen from the very first hook, not even on the second stage. How can you give up because of tunneling, when the killer hasn't even had the chance to tunnel you yet? There's no such thing as a first hook tunneling.
Or do you mean that people "assume" they're gonna get tunneled they give up? In which case, I don't see how that's a valid excuse. Moreover, you're acting like tunneling is less counterable than it actually is. The game is full of second chance perks. I wouldn't mind if I'm being tunneled and my teammates are sticking on gens, because I'll be more than glad to take the chase for a long time while gens are being finished, whilst looping the killer, an arguably more fun experience than staring at a gen all the time.
Which is why, your argument is kind of contradictory. First you complain about the survivor experience being looking at a gen and hitting skillchecks for the whole game, but then you argue that tunneling (aka being in chase) is a bad experience. So what exactly do you want to do? Do you wanna look at gens all game and never interact with the killer or do you wanna be in chase all game? What's the alternative? Because from your argument, it seems you hate both, which is just about the entire game as a survivor. Or do you want the game to go specifically as you desire, with the killer giving you just as much time as you want in doing gens and just as much time as you want in chase? Sorry, but you ain't that special.
In which case, since you have problems with every single scenario, I'd advise you to give up on playing this game entirely, instead of ruining my and other people's matches. If you don't wanna look at a gen all game, don't play survivor. If you don't wanna get tunneled, run distortion and hide all game like a rat, if that's a more pleasant gaming experience for you. The options are plenty.
The solution however, is not to ruin the entire match for 4 other people, because you're an entitled little baby.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721479#Comment_3721479
"So what's the solution in your eyes?"
Well, first of all, look at the causes. Address all the valid ones, like noping out when by the time you're on hook not a single gen has been touched and you - quite correctly - assume it's a losing match, even if you're just two minutes in. Or noping out when you can tell within a few minutes that it's some forever-strategy of e.g. Skully or Knight (though there are other who can make the match draw out unreasonmably long). I don't wanna play tap-the-generator for 30 minutes+. - Making it worth a surv's while to stick around even during a losing match would definitely not make things worse either.
Once the valid causes have been addressed the last resort would be to force players to stick around for the match or eat the DC penalty. But that's the last resort - not your go-to-fix.
You are delusional if you honestly argue that give ups happen only because of a 3 gen skull merchant. I have teammates giving up in almost every other game nowadays, and it's not because the killer has done anything wrong in particular. People will give up because they've been found by lethal 10 seconds into the match and downed, amongst other petty reasons. Who is to blame there really?
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@blithes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721730#Comment_3721730
perhaps not a permanent game mode, but maybe a permanent toggle option when you're in just a normal lobby to randomise your perks if you so choose, i know myself and a lot of my friends enjoy not finding out our perks until we load in :-)
Maybe for a 4 man SWF who wanna mess around, sure. Definitely not for soloq though, please. It's already full of trolls, I'd rather not load in and have a teammate with No Mither and Object of Obsession that gets tunneled within 1 minute of the game, because he chose random perks.
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I think having rotating gamemodes at all times will be very healthy for the game in general. I don't think this one in particular should always stay, as many people are not a fan of it, but having alternative gamemodes is a great way to prevent burnout and the game becoming too repetitive/boring. We'll see how the 2v8 gamemode works, hopefully it will be fun too.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3721479#Comment_3721479
Survivors get the option to give up without DC'ing but a separate give up option, and that survivor is immediately replaced by a bot. That way, the person who wants to give up will be taken out of the game immediately, but their teammates don't have to suffer because of it.
How is this different from the current DC?
They won't receive a penalty for it.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3720873#Comment_3720873
It got overbuffed before, but right now the perk is terrible. It’s an obvious choice for Plague, an okay pick on Legion, but pretty bad on everyone else.
If anything I think the maximum penalty should be a little lower (I think Plague gets a little too much value out of it still) but it should be a little stronger if you have 2-3 people injured (maybe not for only 1 injure though).
I think Thana's design is just garbage to begin with. As you said, for Plague and Legion it's like an S-tier perk, and for everybody else, it's absolute garbage, because very rarely 4 survivors will stay injured forever, and even 6% ain't s**t. A better change of the perk imo is to completely redesign it, so it's viable for all killers, not just some. Instead of injure for example, make it give stacks like No Way Out or Grim Embrace hooks. You can buff the penalty even, but add conditions to it.
For each unique survivor hooked, all others suffer from 5% speed penalty to all actions, up to a maximum of 20%. That way it reward killers for not tunneling, and it will be a healthy perk. If that's too strong, you can add an extra condition to it: If a survivor is sacrificed, the perk disables. If it helps you slow down gens enough until you kill a survivor, it already has done it's job, you'll have less gen progress for the 3v1, and you've earned that because you didn't tunnel someone straight away. And if you DO tunnel someone straight away, you'll only get the 5% benefit which is nothing, and then the perk disables, so you've wasted a perk. That I think would be a good and healthy change to Thana - viable for all killers, giving good value for fair play.
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@n000b51 said:
There's a massive problem with people giving up in the game recently. I don't know why,, nobody knows why.
You have a lot of topics about that. I'm convinced you know the reasons (as unjustified or stupid as they are…).
Remember, DC penalties were initially introduced to reduce the DC during match. As you still can see, you still have (a lot of) DC during matches.
So now, instead to DC, survivors simply give up on the hook. And you want to apply another sanction against that, hoping it will reduce the amount of Give Up during your matches ?
You really don't know how resilient & stubborn can the DbD's players be…
IMO the penalties wasn't & will never be the solution…So what's a good solution in your eyes? Because this is absolutely ruining the entire experience of the game, and cannot be just ignored. There are alternative solutions:
- Remaining survivors get a boost if their teammate gives up in the first hook (so they can have a chance to do something at least).
- Survivors get the option to give up without DC'ing but a separate give up option, and that survivor is immediately replaced by a bot. That way, the person who wants to give up will be taken out of the game immediately, but their teammates don't have to suffer because of it.
- Add a report for survivors who give up, so they get placed in lobbies with other losers who give up, so losers will play with their likes and don't ruin the experience for other players.
But pretending this ain't an issue and doesn't require addressing is ludacris. Nobody wants to load 5 mins to get into a match, and be forced to play 15 minutes of a game that was already over in the first minute.
"But muh it's not that deep, just play it out, you don't have to win every game." Yeah… I'll play it out once. Twice. But it's every other goddamn game. At this point I'm already preparing for a 3v1 loss before the game even loads. It's not about IF someone will give up, but WHO will give up. For Christ' sake…
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Windows is the most fair and balanced survivor perk in the game for me. It's great for newbies, alright-ish for decent players, and unnecessary for teams of coms who already communicate and know where everything is. I'd rather have windows every game, than second chance perks, which are ACTUALLY what broken means. Plus windows can be countered with blindness. Windows usage alone, is why the Blindness status effect is actually useful nowadays.
You wanna know what broken truly is?
A perk that gives you auto 3 perks passively - Guaranteed Dead Hard, Better Iron Will and better Distortion for 160 seconds in total (2 unhooks). You already know which perk I'm talking about. THAT'S broken.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695225#Comment_3695225
Yikes, yeah, that's pretty dire 😅
Tbh it's kinda looking like those filters aren't working right, because the base images are not that far different to my eye. The approximated filtered versions highlight the problem, it is SLIGHTLY better in the filtered version... but not by much... without them side by side I couldn't tell the difference.
Allowing for a custom scratch marks colours is still probably a good idea to add anyway, though I'd almost be tempted to file this as a bug... because although I am a layman and don't know what a corrected version should look like, the original and filtered version both looks pretty similar to me as a non colourblind person...
I think colorblind filters are not a solution for something so specific such as seeing tiny scratch marks on a video game where you're constantly moving. What colorblind filters do help with, is for example, separating team colors in games. For example, if in a game your friendly team members are green and the enemies are red, in most games when you activate the colorblind filter, the friendlies will become blue instead, and that helps separate blue from red (instead of green from red, which is impossible).
And if the colorblind filters simply changed scratch marks to blue, it would immediately fix the issue for ppl with deuteranopia and protanopia (not for people with tritanopia though).
So yeah, an option to simply change the colors would be ideal. It's such a simple thing to add as well, it literally just involves changing the hex code of colors and adding a selection menu. And it's important, because red-green colourblindness is very common in particular, especially in men (something to do with chromosomes 😂) its 10% of the general population, 1 in 10 men playing DBD can barely see scratch marks lmao. It's crazy to think about.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695225#Comment_3695225
Yikes, yeah, that's pretty dire 😅
Tbh it's kinda looking like those filters aren't working right, because the base images are not that far different to my eye. The approximated filtered versions highlight the problem, it is SLIGHTLY better in the filtered version... but not by much... without them side by side I couldn't tell the difference.
Allowing for a custom scratch marks colours is still probably a good idea to add anyway, though I'd almost be tempted to file this as a bug... because although I am a layman and don't know what a corrected version should look like, the original and filtered version both looks pretty similar to me as a non colourblind person...
I have posted a comment with the references and comparison between filter/no filter and colorblind/ no colorblind, but for some reason it went through approval checks… hopefully it comes up soon so you can see exactly what difference the filters make.
Spoiler: They do help slightly, but honestly it's like making it 20% better, instead of solving the issue.
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@UndeddJester said:
Curious the colour blind mode doesn't work for you, especially as you have the most common type of colour blindness.
Do you mind if I ask (because obviously for anyone not colour blind it makes it hard to envision the problem), how do scratch marks look for you on Dead Dawg exactly?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/S2V4LUTUJ4QA/screenshot-20240406-081118-firefox.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HFUHA8XCU3T5/screenshot-20240406-081141-firefox.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VFX9HH3MZV6O/screenshot-20240406-081218-firefox.jpg
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G0M1HQ52H1HR/screenshot-20240406-081242-firefox.jpg
These might be bad examples, do you have a reference image that can be run through a colour blind simulation to help understand and give BHVR a chance to address the problem? Is it only Dead Dawg or do other maps create similar issues?
Not against the point though, if scratch marks are in your field of view, the important part is they should be visible. The colour doesnt really matter.
The immediate issue with say white scratch marks is you'll be fine on Dead Dawg, but you'll be screwed on Ormond... with the variety of different coloured maps now there will probably be a particular combo the colour blind modes don't help on. Having an alternative colour like "blue" for those maps that you can toggle to might be helpful.
Yeah, that's why I think the best option is to allow custom scratch mark colors that you can change depending on the map, as 1 single color for all maps doesn't really do the job. My problem is not only on dead dawg, although dead dawg is like the worst possible example. Ormond is actually really bad too, which I can't really explain why since the ground is white, but it's also incredibly hard to separate the red scratch marks from the background.
The thing with color-blindness, is that it's not only that we can't see the color properly, but mix colors up, but it's also an issue of saturation. If the scratch marks seem very saturated and distinct for those with normal color vision, for me they're incredibly washed out and don't stand out from the ground. The colour blind filters change the colors to something more distinguishable, but they don't saturate them at all, which leaves me with very pale, washed out colors to work with regardless.
Let me demonstrate to you exactly what I see, as accurate as I can:
WITHOUT FILTERS:
Here's a possible example of what SM look for me on most maps. Then again, I'm not sure if you see exactly what I am seeing, but supposedly, these colorblind filters are supposed to replicate colorblind vision. Now, as you can probably tell, I can see the dark blood below the hook and the scratch marks above it (because they're on a very dark ground).
But other than that, in the video I screenshotted, there was a survivor running all the way up to trough the hook, so the scratch marks are supposed to lead to them directly. I can only see the scratch marks above the blood pool, and the rest of the green lines, I can't really tell if it's scratch marks or grass, it literally looks the same.
Now the scratch marks for you would look like this I presume, this is the original. Let me know if you can see any scratch marks beyond the ones above the pool of blood under the hook, because I cannot.
WITH FILTERS:
Now let me show you what the filters do. Here is the original with the filters for you (what you see presumably).
And here is what I see even with the filters (presumably again, bc I am not sure how accurate these colorblind simulators are):
It is slightly better than without the filters, there is no doubt. They do look slightly more distinguishable than the grass. But it's simply not distinguishable enough to not get confused sometimes and lose chase.
I really hope this simulation was accurate, and you could get the picture, because I understand it's super hard to replicate these things and see what the game looks like from my perspective.