Peachblow
Peachblow
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4033198#Comment_4033198
I hope not. My playtime already decresed by 12 hours past 2 weeks on steam.
Hopefully we get phase 3 that will be pushed out.
I have uninstalled for now. There's a survey that is prompted upon install and tunnelling/slugging was one of the options iirc (might have been a sub-selection under toxic killer behaviour).
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Are the anti-tunnel and anti-slug updates just gone for good now? During the Twitch live stream a few weeks ago, this was attributed to the most uninstalls and one of (if not the most) problematic pressure points for survivors. What gives?
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So can we like… get an update on this anti-tunnel/slug/camp? It was bad before the announcement, now it's just insufferable.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4010333#Comment_4010333
if there are no viable counters to these tactics, how do you explain other people escaping? I currently have 61% escape rate this month so far… last night i had an escape streak of 13 before i lost 2 then i won like another 4.
i dont use any anti tunnel perks, no anti slug, no anti camp perks, im soloq survivor and an average one at that, im by no means an amazing super looper or anything like that. How is it that i can escape over half my matches if there is no counter play to these unbeatable tactics? not only am i escaping but im having fun too.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2FK2KXA2AVAP/screenshot-2025-10-03-232908.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OCFRGDYHZFD0/screenshot-2025-10-04-002517.png
"Why do I have to continue a match where I am having absolutely no fun just to avoid being penalized?" when the match itself already feels like a penalty.
To answer this question, people should ask themselves "why am i playing a game i simply dont enjoy?" As killer i might not enjoy being looped, it can be boring and tedious but i dont say survivors are toxic for going in a circle instead of from 1 end of the map to another. And i dont put the blame of this boring optimal strat at the feet of the survivors, thats part of the game and if i didnt like it that much i would not play the game anymore.
Judging by the other stats, your MMR with survivor is likely much lower so you'd be paired up with similarly ranked killers. There was a post somewhere a while ago where killers that end up resorting to the toxic behaviours are middle of the road in MMR, maybe a bit higher. With the fewer games played, ~15M BP's earned on survivor, etc., that might put you a little outside of that threshold but who knows. Also, the longest chase of 1m15s doesn't suggest you're being hard tunneled now ofc there's other factors like breaking LOS and thus breaking chase. I can confirm that with my own stats since I know I looped a killer maybe around 6-8 months ago for nearly the entirety of the match and my team got all 4 or 5 of the gens done, though my stats still read like 2 minutes. Regardless though, your MMR is probably placing you a bit behind the seriously problematic killers. Realistically, there's just a plethora of factors why your experience might be better than others and of course there is bias in that you're a killer main (based on BP scaling). My escape rate is over 60% as well, but I know that's been declining due to the sheer number of games where there's hard-tunneling/slugging/camping going on. This was not as serious of a problem say a year ago. I would not be exaggerating if I said that 4/5th's of my games are this now. Your experience can and will be different, but it doesn't change the fact that there is a problem and it needs addressing.
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@runningguy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/457965/heres-a-thought
or learn to counter it? apparently its toxic to play the game in a way that you dont approve of. maybe i dont approve of people using pallets? that make them toxic because i find being stunned or going in a circle boring?
the killers that use tactics are playing the game, they are not doing anything against the rules, they are not griefing. Not everything is toxic and griefing just because you dont approve of it and you dont find it fun.
Except there aren't really viable counters to most of these anymore. Most of the anti-X survivor perks have been gutted to the point they're far from optimal or they have a limit to one use. Once that use has been taken advantage of, there's no counter. Your example of pallets is comparing apples to oranges and I don't really see the relevance. Slugging, tunneling, or camping is primarily behaviour based, not really resorted to as a last-ditch effort once the survivor team has "outplayed" the killer. It seems rather clear that killers will utilize said "tactics" from the get-go, even if no generator is completed. Though on the example of pallets, once that pallet has been destroyed, there's no using it again and that loop is rendered mostly useless, save for the one new TWD chapter perk which is barely (if at all) used. Realistically, there's only a handful of strong pallets in each map anyway. Most are unsafe and it just comes down to winning a 50/50. If a survivor wants to throw every pallet in the map without a gen being done, that only makes it progressively easier for you later on. Also, you can also choose to disengage from the survivor. A survivor can't choose to disengage from a toxic-behaving killer.
It's not all on the killer though. BHVR created this tactic, strategy, behaviour, (whatever you want to call it) and have done nothing to combat it thus far. In fact, they've made it even worse with the anti-"go-next" feature. There's ample ways to combat it too that work universally between survivor and killer. Similar to your comment or point about "approval" of how someone plays the game, a lot of people make the comment about how "I can play how I want" or "this is how I have fun, I don't care if you have fun or not". With the addition of bots, there's no need for a survivor or killer player to receive a D/C penalty for a game they join to have fun if they feel the other player(s) is/are being toxic or what have you. (Yes, I realize that if a killer disconnects, no bot is added, but BHVR has this implemented in 2v8 that the concept isn't foreign and could be implemented.). Not to mention, if a survivor chooses to remain in the match and they're having no fun at all, they're more than likely going to do the bare minimum to avoid the anti-go-next, creating a negative experience for their teammates.
So TL;DR, you cannot give up or D/C without a penalty. BHVR needs to address toxic behaviour from both sides. Thus, the question or comment for BHVR really should instead be rephrased to "Why do I have to continue a match where I am having absolutely no fun just to avoid being penalized?" when the match itself already feels like a penalty AND there is already mechanics or features in place that can avoid a toxic match.
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I'll preface this and say that I would play killer and survivor somewhat evenly, maybe a slight preference towards survivors since killer generally felt a little easy (if you abused slugging, tunneling, or camping). I used to play survivor often with my friends. We rarely play anymore. On the rare occasions that we do, we might play a few matches and then quit whereas before, we'd probably spend many, many hours on a weekend night play. That just doesn't happen anymore. There's reasons for it.
I wish I could say I was exaggerating, but practically every match has a killer resorting to slugging, tunneling, or camping a hook. It's no longer enjoyable anymore at all. Now I usually play with three other friends where one or two of them are not as skilled. So chases just don't last long with them despite how they actively try to get better. Perks like DS, Off the Record, Unbreakable, etc. have either been nerfed too much that they're hardly a viable option anymore, or simply just have a one-time use which rarely seems worth bringing anymore. The times you do bring a perk or two that counters these "toxic strategies" of slugging, tunneling, or camping, you're having to sacrifice something, usually some sort of gen progression perk. Which then brings to a different issue.
You're often bound to lose without some sort of gen progression perk since the vast majority of the popular or stronger killers have incredible map control in the form of movement or dashes. Most games I'd play as a survivor would be met with usually Ghoul, Krasue (albeit new so understandable), Blight, Billy, Oni, Lich, and occasionally Dark Lord. All of these have super high mobility. There's been memes for a long while now how there's this dash meta or "dash slop" in the game lately. (When something's broken or a killer is weak, give them a dash. They now did it to Myers.). Older killers or killers that are weaker just aren't all that viable anymore and most of them have their power or a mechanic that's integrated to a better performing/stronger killer. We're just seeing a lack of creativity with new killer design, recycled abilities and/or mechanics, and often a "jack of all trades" rather than a master at a couple things and weaker at others.
Anyway, I feel like I've rambled on enough. These points, along with a few other (maybe less important ones) have made the survivor experience more and more suffering and simply unfun. So I echo the people that say they've dropped playing survivor nowadays. I pretty much only play killer now or not at all since survivor, in its current state, is just bordering on being absolutely awful.
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We really need to get the anti-tunnel and anti-slug mechanics prioritized. I don't buy into the whole "it's too oppressive to killers". It's just rewarding killer for gameplay that is easy to abuse, lacking skill, and above all, simply creates a frustrating and negative experience for survivors. If a killer resorts to tunneling, then yeah, it should be oppressive. Realistically I can only speak for myself and my friends that play and say that we do not play survivor any more unless there is 2v8, since we see far less of this behaviour in the games. With regular (1v4), it is without any exaggeration to say that at least two thirds of our games are killers tunneling, slugging, and/or proxying hooks. It's simply no longer fun to play survivor at all in regular game modes. I will login, get my daily as a killer from time to time and wait for 2v8. Other than this, this game is no longer enjoyable for my friends and I.
I understand the need to tweak some of the specifics with killers. I do completely agree with various other comments made across other social media channels that some of these changes would make high-tier killers even stronger. As such, I would be in total favour of reducing some of the specifics with lower-tiered killers. I, for one, would love to see more of the older, often lower-tiered killers to make a return to the game. We rarely see them anymore since a lot of the newer killers have made older ones almost obsolete due to a lot of newer ones having somewhat recycled mechanics (and then some), but that's a different subject altogether.
So yes, please prioritize these anti-tunnel/slug mechanics and have them added soon.
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@PreorderBonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3744999#Comment_3744999
You do realize that in order for the killer to hook you, they have to chase and down you in the first place, right? Or are you saying that youre losing against potato killers? lol
This is simply a great QoL change, no more annoying survivors dragging out matches.
I'm saying that it removes one of the few remaining elements of strategy that a killer must take. When I down a survivor that's in a corner or otherwise somewhat dead area AND they are at their last hook before death, I will ensure I take them to a hook that doesn't create even more dead space. Thus creating a bit more strategy for killers to decide where they should hook. If a killer was silly enough to kill the first survivor in a corner hook and creating a bunch of dead space, that's too bad on them. The change negates strategy for killers making them more of a potato and also renders certain Survivor wiggle perks a bit useless. Now if they reduced the overall number hooks in a match and implemented this at the same time, that would be an excellent compromise.
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@PreorderBonus said:
There is literally no skill involved in having hooks get destroyed permanently. It’s a feature whose only purpose is to be annoying and to force the killer to slug, a product of 2016 DBD.
DBD isn’t a competitive game. If the last survivor runs to a dead zone, it’s only to be annoying and to drag out the match. The fewer opportunities there are to do this, the healthier the game will be.
And yes, killers who want to slug will slug; literally no one said otherwise. This is just a step in the right direction. The next one should be allowing survivors to speed up the bleeding.
Not to mention that punishing the killer for killing survivors is stupid game design in the first place. It’s like if completed generators revealed the aura of survivors nearby. It makes no sense at all.
It's making killer play more brainless than it already is. At least with the current system, killers would need to think at least a little bit as to where they're going to hook, adding a small level of skill. Now a literal potato could play killer with how easy it is.
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Oh, this anniversary event was a hot pile of garbage. So I'm very glad it was made into a modifier/game mode of its own. I get my challenges done, then hope right out of that awful mode. The insta-hooking is just so incredibly strong for killers rending so much survivor counter-play useless. Coming from someone that plays both sides (and playing killer during this game mode has been so boring and quick if you just use the insta-hook).
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@Junylar said:
If survivors have one single perk that turns off half of killer perks, can we have the same for killers? Like a perk that keeps all survivors permanently exhausted or something? Without it being a hex, of course, since Distortion is not a boon either.
Distortion can be countered very easily. Bring Gearhead. Bring something that removes terror radius. There's ample options to counter it.
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No. Not with how Vecna is right now. He's just a bit busted (which is no surprise since it's a new killer and they're always busted to begin with). At this point, just delete most of the older killers because newer killers are getting the abilities of 2+ killers, making some of the older ones practically redundant.
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It's fair to want to keep coming back to try the game out, but realistically, if you can't stand the game anymore, just uninstall and move on. There's a plethora of issues the game still has. Coming from someone that plays both sides fairly evenly, I think there's a bit of an imbalance with survivors getting the short end of the stick on this one. A lot of the core issues with survivors' imbalance is just the huge gap between solo queue and SWF, really. I could write for days on that subject but TL;DR—allow survivor lobbies to see each other's builds, dare I say consider basekit Bond, have an in-game voice comm system (which you can toggle off if you dislike it) or even some sort of "ping/action" communication wheel at the very, very least. Also, killers have the advantage on controlling how the game plays out in the beginning. Play fair and let everyone have a good time or play like a dick and tunnel/slug/camp. Sure, you get those SWF bullies, but they're incredibly far and few between. Not to mention, there's too many cookie cutter builds out there. It's either Resonance+Pop and maybe Surge or it's full aura reading. There's not really a lot of countering with the gen regression if the killer players smart with their hooks. Distortion is the only counter to aura reading, but if there's times where you're not generating Distortion tokens fast enough to counter aura reading builds (i.e.: Gearhead, SM Meyers, etc.). Anyway, just enjoy your break. If the game causes you that high level of discontent, it's time to move on.
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SM Meyers can be fun to play. He's slow as some of the SM Meyer mains have stated so if you can learn your map layout and find good loops, you'll be fine. It's Tombstone that's incredibly boring. No points for anyone if they decide to just end the game in 5 minutes.
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"BuT bAsEkIt uNbReAkAbLe iS tOo StRoNg" -Every unskilled killer.
But really, just hook the survivor. Slugging is boring and nobody gets points. You don't need your precious 4K every match. If all survivors can get 20,000+ points, the killer gets 25-30,000+, and everyone pips at least once, there's a GG and fun time for everyone.
I try to make the game as enjoyable for all the survivors when I play killer by not tunneling, slugging, proxying hooks, etc. Some scenarios apply when all the survivors are grouped together at the hook, they've managed to three-gen themselves, or it's end-game. But really, it seems many killers over the last 2-3 months are intentionally making the game as little fun as possible for suvivors. Generally speaking, of course.
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Crazy to have an argument on why tunneling is good or healthy. It's incredibly unenjoyable for most survivors to begin with (I don't know one survivor that finds it fun to be tunneled). Plus, with the way that the points system works for survivor, there's really zero incentive to prolong being in a single drawn-out chase unless you're throwing every pallet (not advised) and maybe getting some stuns out of it to maximize points. As the person being tunneled, you're not going to get a pip and would face losing one prior to the pip changes. Thankfully, the pip changes make it so people just give up on hook if killers are that unskilled and have to tunnel someone out and move on to the next. Now nobody really gets points. Lose-lose.
This OP also puts everyone into one box. Each player has a different skill set and way of learning. Just because being tunneled worked for you doesn't mean it's going to work for everyone. I'd argue you're one of the very few that "benefits" from it. Learn looping strategies by watching videos, streams, or playing killer. The latter is what made me better at looping.
The game really needs to disincentivize tunneling, not incentivize it.
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I don't see why it's needed. Just leave and not waste the killer's time.
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I can't speak to your technical issues, but I wouldn't mind seeing disconnect penalties removed now either. As you pointed out, with the addition of bots and now with the recent addition of no pip-loss, leaving a match shouldn't leave you penalized. While I never really leave as a killer (because really… it's so easy to play and you have the vast majority of control in a match), I've been seeing a tremendous increase in tunneling over the last month or two that it just makes the match far from fun. Right now, either penalize yourself from a time-out or penalize yourself by continuing the match… not exactly fun options.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700474#Comment_3700474
Man I almost exclusively play killer I'm trying to p100 huntress at the moment, I absolutely hate the games were people give up and I don't get my hook states and the much needed bp. I could careless about the pip system honestly it doesn't mean anything at all to me and winning is so subjective that I stopped caring a long time ago. I guess people expect tunneling so they just assume the worst and press next.
If you ever see a mordeo huntress that's just throwing absurd hatchets it's probably me, I'll play serious to 2 hook everyone and then just practice trick shots. Occasionally I'll kill a terrible teammate for the teams sake ofc.
Yes, can confirm. If the killer is tunneling or proxying, I'm killing myself on hook to give them less BP. It'll be a lose-lose for everyone. I'm kind of the same though. I'll "try" and get everyone to two-hooks or kill someone, then I'll gradually get less sweaty. There was another thread around here somewhere that mentioned something like: "There's letting everyone have both a good game and a lot of fun, then there's trying hard to be the only one that has fun and making the experience awful for everyone else." I feel this is becoming more and more true, especially since killers pretty well have the most control of how a game plays out. Sure SWFs can gen-rush and bully, but you rarely come across a good SWF group now.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
I mean I rock no perks and win most of my games. The ones I lose are due to the other team being better( which for some people is hard to admit) or making too many mistakes on my part. Blaming gen speed is just wild. In most of my matches(perk less) the only reason gens fly is because I've messed around and practiced a power at a loop or something.
Tunneling is such a weird word right now as it's very subjective, everyone has they're own definition of it. If you can't win without it then do you, there's no clear cut win condition in this game unless your tallying points at the end which I don't think anyone does. As long as you can live with yourself then who cares. It doesn't make you bad at the game either, but it will hender you in terms of over skill expression. Same is true for any strat or perk that you rely heavily on to win. Which is why as soon as the crutches are taken away you hear the moans and whines. Tunneling may not be here forever my friend and when that rug is pulled the fall from grace is gonna be a quick and hard one for a lot of people.
I'd say this encapsulates killer right now. It's severely handicapped in the current state. You're absolutely correct in that a killer could choose to bring zero perks and still get over 2K without needing to resort to skill-less tactics (i.e.: tunnel, proxying hooks, etc.). I play killer with perks and it's incredibly easy to get 3-4K without said tactics. Plus, you usually end up getting more points out of playing "appropriately" and more likely to double-pip.
I've played more survivor games than killer games the last 2 weeks and I must say, out of let's say… 40 played survivor matches, without exaggeration I'd say about 5 were with a killer that didn't tunnel or proxy hooks. It's getting out of hand and horribly unenjoyable.
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As someone that plays both sides equally, I will say that 4K's are just so incredibly common now with how handicapped killers have become. Perks that allowed survivors to actually have a fighting chance have all been nerfed to the ground. I usually try and change my build on killer quite often, but it's typically the same cookie-cutter builds that are most popular that end up causing issues that OP mentioned. That would be something like: Resonance + Pop = 55% gen regression, now throw Grim Embrace in there or sometimes Surge/Jolt.
If I have an oppressive challenge that I need to finish on killer, sure, I might run one of those cookie-cutter builds, but man, it's actually insanely boring with how easy killer is running these builds. It's rare if I get a 2K or less with this build. Now, I don't intentionally tunnel, slug, or camp hooks for that matter. For someone that does, then yeah, you're almost guaranteed a 4K with that since survivors don't really have any counters to said things anymore.
The recent (mini)-patches and DLC saw some changes to Huntress (completely unneeded), the Clown (also unneeded), Billy (a change was needed, but now becomes too strong), as well as the introduction of Chucky and the Unknown.
Huntress: No "penalty" for missing hatchets anymore since she can equip up to 10 with add-ons making it a total crap-shoot. Good Huntresses spend less time going to lockers now and have even higher pressure from a champ that already had high pressure.
Clown: Same reasoning as Huntress really. No real penalty for missing his throwables. The Clown was already a pretty high-pressure killer.
Billy: Some changes were needed, but his ability to turn corners as well as he can is just insane. It renders Oni's and quite frankly Demo's rather useless. I'd like to see Billy's turn abilities tweaked a bit or perhaps remove the ability to instantly down someone in close proximity (i.e.: insta-down requires you to "rev-travel" at least let's say 12m for insta-down to occur).
Chucky: I'll give him a bit of slack. He's not inherently busted, but he has certain advantages that other killers down. Namely his size. You can't see him in maps with tall grass or lots of foliage (i.e.: Swamp, Badham Preschool, etc.). I'd suggest applying a subtle aura around him while not using Hidey-Ho to combat this.
Unknown: There's just barely any skill involved with this champion. Lobbing the "grenades" requires just a general direction and no real accuracy to hit a survivor. Teleporting incurs zero delays like what Onryo would experience. Survivors trying to dispell just get caught in the mini-cinematic should the Unknown teleport the moment his ability becomes active. I get this killer is new and new killers are usually over-tweaked to begin. I'd like to see the weakened state take less time to remove (or it will expire after say 30 seconds) to combat the lack of skill the grenades require and a 2 second teleport animation delay.
One more while I'm at it, Wesker: The only issue he needs fixing is his tentacle grab. There's still too many issues where he can grab survivors after they have vaulted, forcing them back on the side they were on previously (i.e.: as if the vault never took place).
And yes, again, reviewing the tunneling, camping, and slugging issues again. Camping is usually only apparent with killers that have range or some sort of dash. I'd say we should look at having base-kit Unbreakable and maybe even a longer Borrowed Time effect to encourage killers to complete the hook and focus someone new.
Some of these issues are certainly most prominent in solo-queue, but it's becoming moreapparent with SWFs now too and the comment "There is "playing the game," and there is "trying to be the only one having a good time."" is certainly becoming more and more true. I barely feel the urge to play either role lately because of how oppressive survivor is and how handicapped killer has become.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617164#Comment_3617164
Let me introduce the 4man death squad to you. Against these people, you barely get downs.
In not complaining about you and your four friends that want to have a good time.
I talk about the people that load into a match to play for 4 minutes maximum and get out. Those that stack strongest loadout to absolutely stomp everything that isn't a Nurse or Blight. They exist. And they are the strongest role, dbd has to offer.
What's so bad about that though? If they get out in four minutes, great, you move onto the next. Saves you a disconnect penalty. But again, how often does this even happen? I play killer a lot as well and I probably get this once a month IF THAT.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616225#Comment_3616225
What else would you do?
SWF is the biggest imbalance in dbd and the hole bhvr dug themselves when they introduced it.
It can't be nerfed in game because it would punish people that just want to play with friends. But if played at a high enough level, it provides the biggest power trip I've seen in multiplayer games this far. Almost no killer stands any chance.
I think there should be something done about that without making the soloq experience worse. Giving the killer information, so that they could spice up their load out is the best idea currently available.
Actually, the biggest imbalance is how large the gap between SWF and solo-queue is. I know of probably 15-20 contacts that play DBD amongst my circle of friends, their friends, and their communities they hang out with. NOBODY will solo-queue anymore. When I play survivor, I will not play solo queue because of how awful the experience is. I only play with friends, ideally with a full four-stack because that random 1 or 2 survivors we get just always seem to be the least experience player ever. So if there is a way to lobby-dodge or toggle something to no longer player with SWFs, you're basically indirectly banning people which someone pointed out earlier. It's not an issue with SWFs being too good either as my party has faced a lot of issues with the many survivor nerfs over the last few months. It just comes down to adapting your playstyle as a killer to combat them. It's incredibly easy to get a 4K as a killer these days, SWFs or not.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616247#Comment_3616247
I don't have a huge ego. I despise people that think that they are better than others. I know what I can and can't do in my matches. That's what I'm basing my arguments on.
I just think that lobby dodging should be saved another way. Swf has a ton of extra information. I think it's time the killer got some additional info in that case as well.
Does that lead to healthier gameplay overall? Maybe not. There's a lot of weird and unkind players out there.
Would it help at least a bit? I think so yes.
Killers don't need more information. I agree SWFs have more information than solo queue so realistically, solo queuers should gain the added information to bring it more in line with other async-horror survival games.
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How often do you really play with SWFs though? I can't imagine it's that often. I don't mean to throw salt into the wound, but killers have had it tremendously easy over the last several months (since probably around the time of the healing nerf). I play both sides fairly evenly and playing killer is just so boring now with how easy it is to kill survivors. Yes, it's quite obvious when you play against SWFs and sure, it's frustrating when you get "bullied" sometimes by them, but at least it's a challenge and you shouldn't really be up against them that often. Playing survivor now is just a horribly un-fun experience now with the amount of nerfs. Now we're hearing about nerfing what few viable perks remain to counter killer builds (Made For This--yes already nerfed, Distortion, Prove Thyself--again, etc. etc. etc.). Sorry, but it's hard to feel empathy for people that solely play killers now since it's really just so easy. There does not need to be any nerfing to SWFs at all. Just learn to counter them. There's always a way.
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Simply put, you cannot solo-queue on this game anymore and have fun at the same time. It's just ridiculous how un-fun the game has become which truly is a shame.
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The concerns about voice chat are valid, though most of them are just fear of being yelled at or trolling purposes which, at that point, I'd say have a quick way to mute these players without having to stop working on a generator or what have you. The language barrier is a fair reason. Ultimately, so many multiplayer games have some sort of voice feature that seems to work when you want it to. There's always going to be jerks and trolls regardless if they're using voice or not.
The compromise certainly is some kind of chat-wheel system though. I think this could go a long way as well since even I would probably opt to use this more than a voice chat too. Having survivor perks visible to other survivors only would also be extremely helpful and would promote camaraderie and build synergy. Sure, you'll have some people quit lobbies, but isn't that kind of the point? If your build is that outrageously wild or non-beneficial to survival, why would people want to waste time with you anyway? These implementations combined with an effort to fix their matchmaking would probably bridge the gap to at least somewhat of a feasible state. With how it is now, as I mentioned above, solo-queue is just absolutely unenjoyable.
I also read a few responses of nerfing SWF. How would one even go about doing that? The core advantage is communicating on voice comms to be able to synergize builds and coordinate who is where, who is doing what, killer location, etc. You can't really nerf external voice comms.
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I've been playing the game for several years now, having played both killer and survivor relatively evenly. I do have to say that the game was in a much better state years ago. It felt more balanced for both sides of the coin (yet that's going to be a matter of opinion and moot point anyway). That said, I have a rather long post of ideas/opinions:
1. SOLO-QUEUE VS. GROUP-PLAY (SWF):
The primary issue with the survivor side of the coin is there's just such a huge disconnect between solo-queuing and playing with a four-stack of friends. With all the survivor nerfs over the past several months to years, the gap is simply far too wide to see much success in solo-queue games. Even matches where you have one or two friends join you, that one or two solo-queuers are at such an incredible disadvantage by not being able to communicate with the suvivors playing together. They almost always become a liability and (often unbeknownst to them) sabotage the entire game for the rest of the survivors. With a full group of friends, we will generally win the majority of games which is to be expected with a decently skilled survivor group. With solo-queuing, you're lucky to have two or more survivors escape... if you even make it to the end-game phase.
The survivor nerfs aren't all to blame though. If anything, I understand most of them to an extent. The issue is that there's just no communication system in the game. Sure, the survivor action display is helpful, but it barely provides solo-queuers with much. I don't believe in-game voice is a good idea because it will just get incredibly toxic. However, we need some sort of pinging-style communication system like many other multiplayer games have. There was another horror game that I fail to remember the name of that had a pretty robust communication system. Something similar to League of Legends' pinging-system would even suffice (ie: alert survivors you're going to a hook, you see the killer, the etc.). There just needs to be some sort of communication system that exists to share information like you would in a voice chat.
When I play killer, it's very evident when a survivor group is a pre-made SWF or solo-queuers. Games against SWFs can often be frustrating because they work so well to "bully" the killer. Something our SWF group will do too. Though I feel like the amount of games where I go up against a SWF is severely outweighed by solo-queuers. With solo-queuers, I'm almost always guaranteed a four-kill. So realistically, I'm fine going up against a SWF here and there making SWFs not the problem.
2. SURVIVOR ITEM RE-WORKS AND IMBALANCES:
A secondary issue I feel is that survivor items are becoming less and less appealing to bring. Maps and keys are just downright awful. Maps don't last very long to begin with, though their purpose is pretty short lived once you ping the map once to check for any hex totems, gens, etc. You might use it longer for killer belongings, but even then it's a pretty lacklustre item to bring and in need of a serious re-work.
Keys are even more lacklustre and are in desperate need of some sort of re-work. About the only thing a key is useful now is for identifying a solo-queue survivor on your team that's (most likely) going to be passive and hide all game, waits for everyone to die, and comes out of a locker at the end because they have a hatch challenge. With the upcoming buffs to killer end-game perks like Remember Me, maybe the keys can be used to unlock exit gates much faster.
Med-kits didn't really need a change a few months back. If they were a problem for you as a killer, it probably just meant you weren't committing to them (within reason... you're not going to chase one survivor all game). This holds even more true with the anti-heal killer perks that didn't see any sort of adjustment. Sloppy Butcher is just a pain. Miss one skill-check or have to run away for a sec? Too bad, your med-kit is useless now if you don't have add-ons to increase its usage. A happy medium? Nerf the two common-tiers of med-kits, but it seemed kind of silly to adjust the high-tier ones when the average survivor isn't going to come across them very often.
Now we're getting tool-kit nerfs. Sure, it's more specific with Brand New Parts, but it felt a little unnecessary (as did the Prove Thyself nerf) considering the buffs to gen-regression killer perks like Pop Goes the Weasel, Jolt, and Pain Resonance making a comeback. Early game is usually about the only serious generally-guaranteed pressure that survivors get, so it feels like a severely misguided change from Behaviour. The longer the game goes on, the higher the pressure generaly becomes for the killer. End-game is always very killer pressure-heavy especially with crutch perks like NOED, especially when paired up with No Way Out and Blood Warden (hey, another reason to re-work keys to open exit gates quickly).
Flashlights are really about the only somewhat reliable item which I won't speak more on.
3. COMBATING EGREGIOUS KILLER BEHAVIOUR
I want to (once again) preface this by saying I play killer about as much as I play survivor (since playing solo-survivor is just awful). So killer mains, you don't have to come for me with pitchforks. There's already some plans to introduce an anti-camping system for survivors which I'm happy to hear. Sure, once end-game commences, there's nothing else for a killer to do besides secure the kill, so I don't think survivors need to complain about camping at end-game. No further talk about that is needed.
There was also talk about baseline Unbreakable to combat slugging a while back. Why did that conversation fizzle out? I think it's still something to explore further. No, it wouldn't be unlimited Unbreakable attempts, it would be much like it exists now--you can get up once. So it's up to the survivor to use their "get-out-of-jail-free-card" wisely. Though I would say slugging is maybe the least of the three problematic egregious behaviours killers possess.
Tunneling is the last one. I'd say this is probably the most frustrating of the three but also the one that I really have no suggestions on when it comes to combating it. About the only thing I can think of is having the baseline Borrowed Time constantly renew itself if you continue to be chased while there is at least three survivors remaining. Though it's something that I'm sure could be abused. It's a suggestion nonetheless.
We killers really shouldn't have to rely on any of these behaviours to win since we have such a wide array of perks. A good killer won't even resort or rely on these anyway. It's kind of the unspoken rule that you don't resort to these. A killer resorting to these is just a textbook example of a poorly skilled killer. Really.
4. SHARED ADD-ONS
I think this final one might be a nice way to end my waaaay-too-long-of-a-post. This would likely be easier to implement for survivors, though I feel like if the coding for killer add-ons is how I think it is, it wouldn't be a lot of work to implement. It would just be great to have all survivor add-ons/belongings combined into one universal bank so you can play whatever survivor you want. This wouldn't apply to perks of course. If anything, it's probably even a financial gain to Behaviour if they implement this as more cosmetics would be sold. I know I'd be purchasing cosmetics for characters I think are cool but I don't play because they have nothing on them. And I know that if I feel this way, someone else out there shares a similar feeling.
When it comes to killers, I think that the killers add-ons are coded into their rarity types rather than the add-on names themselves as I think it keeps their work more simplistic and organized. There are usually more than one of the same rarity, so they're probably named like "UltraRare_1" and "UltraRare_2" or "Rare_1", "Rare_2", and "Rare_3", etc. I could be wrong though. Going on the assumption that this is the case, it should be feasible to still bank all of the killer add-ons together by the rarity type. Let's say you have 100 ultra-rare-1 add-ons, 80 ultra-rare-2 add-ons, 300 very-rare-1 add-ons, 275 very-rare-2 add-ons, etc. you'd still have that in your bank across all killers. Only the name of the items unique to that particular killer will change. It's kind of difficult to explain any simpler (especially at this hour), but I think this could be a great way for Behaviour to make some money on additional cosmetics and a way to potentially see more diversity amongst killers.
APOLOGIES FOR THE LONG POST.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3403748#Comment_3403748
CoB at best saves you 4 seconds, how is it usable? Genuinly asking
I mentioned that it's relatively useless with its changes now, but not completely gutted. It's gutted to basically solo-queuers which is kind of the overarching issue. It would probably only ever be taken by organized parties that can still coordinate its use over voice comms, probably only by those already running altruistic perks or a full boon build. Otherwise, yeah, its benefits are completely outweighed by more useful perks.
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I think prior to the game's update today, we saw a relatively balanced game between killer and survivors, especially after the Eruption nerf. The Incapacitated de-buff was pretty lame. Though I'd say the patch was ever-so-slightly killer favoured this time around. The game will usually always be a little more killer-favoured since it's 4v1 though, especially so if it's a party filled with solo-queuers. Solo-queuing will always be more of a challenge, though the survivor status indicator helped with that to a small extent. There is still just too large of a gap between solo-queuing and organized parties and I think that's where the main issues rest on overall. Other multi-player games do solo-queuing fairly well (dare I say League of Legends with their ping/toggle system). That's for another topic of discussion though.
There were still some annoyances on both sides, but they're both relatively easily countered. I get the Dead Hard nerf, but it's tremendously easy to bait it out. The killers complaining are just small brained. Circle of Healing didn't really need a nerf. It's not totally gutted, but it's relatively useless once again to a solo-queue since, generally speaking, solo-queuers are more selfish with their builds since they can't coordinate with other survivors. Maybe allowing survivors to see each other's load-out could help?
Call of Brine was a likely nerf as well since there were a handful of gen regression perks available. Though again, it was still relatively easy to counter so long as you weren't three-gen'd. With the way it is now, it's not really much of a nerf though. Still very usable. Pain Resonance wasn't horrible how it was once it proc'd for the first time. Again, easy to counter the blast-aspect of it. It probably shouldn't be a Scourge Hook with the way it is now though so that's a negative change and probably won't be utilized much at all any more.
A bit unrelated here, but I do agree with the previous poster that Myers' Tombstone needs a total re-work. If Myers' kills everyone early on, everyone's overall score is low. Killer probably safety-pips, survivors de-pip. Just kind of a stupid build overall.
TL;DR:
Ever-so-slightly killer-favoured update, but issue remains with the large gap between solo-queue and organized party when it comes to survivors. Would have been a lot worse before the PTB changes. Dead Hard nerf = inevitable. CoH nerf = sucky for solo-queue. Brine nerf = inevitable, but still good. Resonance nerf = crap perk now.
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@VoidOfMe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3379024#Comment_3379024
you're missing a point here
dead hard also had a problem where people could "mysteriously" auto-use it (if you know what I mean)
and you couldn't prove it was cheat, you could only guess
now this will help to reduce it, there are plenty of good and fun perks to use, people should let dead hard go to be honest
That is such a tiny percentage of players. I don't even use DH, but I recognize the value in people that actually can use it. I play killer and survivor pretty evently and DH is a minor frustration at best, but it wasn't broken where it was. If you had an issue with DH, it just meant you were a bad killer and couldn't outplay it. The game has been more killer-favoured for the last year or so, but prior to this patch, it was at least pretty close to being balanced (assuming you were queuing with others and no solo-queuing). This patch as a whole just makes it fruther imbalanced and killer-favoured. Far more so for a solo-queuing survivor.
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The healing/med-kit nerf is silly and rather unnecessary. Smart killers will stay on survivors that have a med-kit equipped because they should know the moment they let go of them, they're going to heal up. Too many times I see unskilled killers disengaging chase with a med-kit equipped survivor. There was nothing wrong with healing, it's just an unncessary nerf for bad killers who need to have their hand held throughout the entire game.
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These weren't even major issues. CoH was more of an annoyance than anything (to both killer and survivors equally). The amount of times a survivor would run around aimlessly trying to find a totem when they could be on a gen is quite staggering. It only inconvenienced a killer slightly having to snuff it out. Don't want a survivor to heal? Stay on them.
Dead Hard was in a good place where it was. It was incredibly easy to bait out, but most killers are just too "trigger happy" and wouldn't learn how to counter it. Most survivors don't even know how to use Dead Hard well enough for it to be a viable choice in their keep.