Ewik42
Ewik42
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@LeFennecFox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737546#Comment_3737546
Giving your teammate 20s of basekit bt/haste without worrying if they have OTR is very strong. 10s of basekit bt in a deadzone means killer can just wait it out. BT gets people more distance & more protection very good for endgame saves and in general.
With base endurance/haste there is little to no meaning for the perk. Adding extra time to that does nothing when facing killers like a bubba or executioner that's waiting to m2. We can even add nurse you're not making any distance. As I've stated above I never once mentioned anything about the timer it should have. 10 sec 15 sec 20 sec…? That is something else to talk about maybe the total timer can be lowered. The only timer I talked about was a 3 second window of being able to take 2 hits once those 3 seconds are up its a regular base endurance.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737556#Comment_3737556
why? do you think hook trading is healthy gameplay? Is it fair for killers like Legion and Plague to injure everyone then camp a hook on first down? Shouldn't there be counters/risk's attached to each associated play?
i feel like your idea would be better for a potential new perk in my opinion
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737588#Comment_3737588
I suppose my response to this is that tunnelling has to be a possibility in the game. Arguments for making it less viable are valid, but I am against removing it completely due to the point I raised above.
If you make it impossible to tunnel, you make it so survivor just unhook each other for free, without any consideration for where the Killer is, or what the killer is doing.
There is a trade off for camping and tunneling, you are not exerting pressure on generators. That trade off is you are betting you can kill 1 survivor off before the other survivors finish enough gens to snowball the game into a teamwide escape.
Why does camping and tunneling often work? Cause solo Q aren't on comms, and don't know that an ally is waiting out the sacrifice timer to buy more time for the team, so they don't crank gens efficiently to put the pressure on the killer. This is why SWFs are so much harder to deal with. Their comms affords them the ability to put the pressure back on the killer. SoloQ players can do this, and good soloQ players will punish a camper, but it takes a certain amount of trust in your teammates to achieve.
So the basic premise of trying to punish tunneling hard is flawed, because if survivors played their cards as well as they possibly could, tunnelling is absolutely counterable... but while soloQ can't coordinate to SWF level, tunneling will always be effective... and I can't think of a good way to change that.
I agree with you camping/tunneling should be part of the game but I'm just talking about BT itself with the change I'm trying to offer it can easily be play around. The whole point is that the killer doesn't get a two birds with one stone scenario. That's why I mentioned a bubba or executioner trade.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I would rather prefer if BT would grant something else instead of Endurance. The problem why the Anti-Tunneling measurements are quite weak is simply because all resolve around Endurance. So a single hit by a proxy-camping Killer after the Unhook will remove:
- Basekit Endurance
- Potential Off the Record
- Potential Borrowed Time
- The ability to use Dead Hard
This is just too much for a single M1-Hit, especially if a Perk like Off the Record is clearly designed to combat tunneling, but you wont get the 80 seconds at all, you get as much as the Killer allows you to have.
The only thing BT has currently going for it:
- Works in Endgame
- Killers usually dont wait out BT if they realize the Survivor does not have OTR, so they hit after 10 seconds, which will then trigger BT and surprises them
I think giving BT something else than Endurance would be nice, so that even if the Killer hits the Survivor off the Hook, they can have another status effect which might help them. Maybe even buff the Duration of BT to 30 seconds, since it is a purely altruistic Perk anyway (and should stay that way, so BT for both is not the way to go IMO, even tho it would Unhooks against camping Killers way better).
The thing with off the record is that it gives you many more different benefits besides the endurance hit, that's why I didn't even bother mentioning it.
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@UndeddJester said:
I'm not really understanding a lot of the points raised here: -
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/416940/fixing-borrowed-time-idea
Saying BT is useless because the killer immediately hits the survivor off hook is untrue. You get a 165% speed boost plus the post hook 10% boost for 20s....how much do you need to make a tile?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737502#Comment_3737502
This would be broken, you can just run under the killers nose to trade for free with no penalty, even after the gates are powered.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737546#Comment_3737546
Borrowed Time is a great perk. There are no clues that it's in effect other than the speed remaining after 10s, which is hard to spot so even veteran killers fall for it. It's subtlety is where its power lies.
It allows you to be much more aggressive with unhooks, taking decisions and options you would otherwise be punished for. It gives you consistent value around unhooks because it greatly expands the options available to you via the safety net it provides.
To break that down more:
It works very well in the rush to the gate at end game, and getting an unhook with Borrowed Time is basically a guaranteed out for the unhooked player. This is one of the few reliable effects available off hook when the gates open. If the killer hasn't worked out BT is in effect yet, they can pursue the BT player to wait our the basekit endurance, which can lead to a free out for the whole team. Combined with Desperate Measures, it works great at coordinating an unhook at end game, and even during the trial this combo can allow you to make trades with a good chance of both of you getting away to a tile.
BT also allows you to take much riskier heals under hook because you can actually finish the heal before the endurance effect ends, meaning you can get both you and the unhook survivor back in the game sooner if the killer doesn't stop you, and if they do try to stop you, you haven't just given your teammate a death sentence.
Even if the killer doesn't tunnel the unhooker, the 10% haste helps the survivor get to another survivor/gen sooner, so if you trade and get chased yourself, your ally is getting back in the fray faster than they would do otherwise.
I'm not sure why everyone is treating BT like its bad. It's a solid perk, with a very good niche. It's not overpowered, and it's certainly not weak. It's got a good set of nuanced uses that you can exploit to get consistent value.
It's one of my favourite perks. In fact, the only reason I don't run it more is my teammates are often allergic to generators and will swarm for unhooks like moths to a flame... even if I am obviously in a better position/healthier state to unhook.
The point is to avoid losing the endurance effect as soon as you are unhooked. Making it to a tile was never an issue the double endurance isn't meant to extend the timer or give you an extra speed boost after getting hit for the second time. Basically just a ONE hit immortality window of 3 seconds after hook. In other words I never considered the lasting effect of the perk, it can be capped on 10 seconds just like a base unhook or maybe it can stay as 10 extra seconds but less haste speed.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737556#Comment_3737556
why? do you think hook trading is healthy gameplay? Is it fair for killers like Legion and Plague to injure everyone then camp a hook on first down? Shouldn't there be counters/risk's attached to each associated play?
I personally think your take should definitely be considered but not as part of BT maybe a new perk similar to some of the things you mentioned
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/416940/fixing-borrowed-time-idea
Maybe just increase the haste effect, currently it makes it so the haste effect lasts double the time, maybe it could give 15% instead of 10% allowing you to get more distance before the killer is able to catch up.
sounds good but what about blights, nurses, huntress. Killers that can catch up or instant down from range?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
i'd just make it grant borrow time to person unhooking as well.
Nah I think this would cause more tunneling
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@LeFennecFox said:
BT is still a great perk just overshadowed by others
Look If I had to put this perk in a BAD-GOOD-GREAT scale I would put BT in between bad and good to be honest and I don't believe its a great perk. Great perks in my opinion are perks that can give you good/great benefits on their own. Good perks are perks that give you little/good benefit when paired with other perks or on their own. Bad perks are the ones that give you little/no benefit on their own or with the assist of other perks. The only thing that can nerf a Great perk is make it situational and I believe that if this is added it will make it a great perk that's very situational.