Zoso
Zoso
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@Jholla31 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/862702#Comment_862702
Discordance, BBQ, and NOED are all useless on Hag. You dont need information perks with her; your traps should be doing that for you.
Ruin: slows down the game to set up a trap web. You only need about 45-60 seconds to set up a solid web. Even if Ruin is cleansed almost immediately, this SHOULD give you enough time to set up.
Franklin's Demise: you are 100% correct in trapping dropped items because survivors will come back for them, often injured. This can be swapped for Thanataphobia or PGTW, depending on how many items are in the lobby.
Monitor and Abuse: a 16m terror radius gives huge advantages, from easy first hits to confusion.
A Nurse's Calling: pairs perfectly with M&A due to the small terror radius. You shouldn't chase with Hag, and using M&A with ANC lets you catch survivors that you teleport away from when they're injured. They won't have time to escape when you sneak up like that.
Thanks for reading my post. I have a few counters for some of your points. But first just a quick clarification. NOED isn't an information perk so IDK why you feel it is pointless on the Hag. If you can, please clarify this so I can better understand your point of view on NOED.
I'll start off by clarifying why I use Discordance. In my original post I wrote that I only use Discordance for information in the start of the match. The primary reason I use Discordance is to discourage the survivors from grouping on gens. This tactic has been consistent in the desired results. By forcing them to split up and using FD, so they lose their tool box, I force them to do gens as slow as possible. Also negates perks like Prove ThySelf. It also tends to get the snowballing effect that I want, which is why I said you can change BBQ for Dying Light. I mostly use BBQ for the 2v1 situations and BP.
Now to your post.
I understand why you use Ruin but that to me seems more of a tactic for a Trapper than the Hag. But honestly every killer can benefit from Ruin that is why everyone uses it. When I use the Hag I trap as I go. She is more dynamic than Trapper so she doesn't need to stop everything she does just to trap. Her set up speed is a lot faster and she doesn't need to pick traps up.
Your NC and MaA combo seems to synergies really well. Especially with the Hag since she is very small and hides well but when I play with the Hag, mid game (which is the time you'd use that come), I tend to be getting to survivors through traps primarily and I chase at angles. The way I play Hag I don't want a small TR in the beginning because I want survivors to move as much as possible when I'm near to increase the chance of them setting off a trap. That's how I play the Hag.
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Survivor (Any)
Stealth Build : Sprint Burst, Spine Chill, Iron Will (only if its 100%), Quick and Quite.
- Variations : Lithe for Sprint Burst, Urban Evasion for Iron Will.
Killer (Hag)
Favorite Build : Discordance, Franklin's Demise, BBQ n Chilli, NOED
- Variations : BBQ can be switched for Dying Light. Hag is good at steam rolling once she has momentum.
- Strategy : Use Discordance to try and force them to split gens. Start of match use it to find survivors. After hitting someone with FD you MUST place a trap on or as close to the item as possible, they WILL come back for it. 90% of the time they go back for the item. Now people say that NOED is not needed on Hag. I'd argue that NOED it BEST on Hag because she can start chases and get at least one hit extremely efficiently. Most times you won't need NOED but the times that you do you'll be happy.
Killer (Wraith)
Favorite Build : Nurse's Calling, Thanatophobia, Dying Light, Sloppy Butcher
- Variation : Stridor for Sloppy Butcher
- Strategy : I use Wraith as a hit'em fast and mind game killer. You want to Stealth, Hit, Stealth, Chase them at angles and block potential running locations while uncloaking.
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@DelsKibara said:
I can hit Ruin Skillchecks just fine. Sometimes I get a streak of over 10 of them.
But when Ruin gets destroyed, for some reason I start to suck at getting Great Skillchecks. Don't ask me why, I don't know either.
Lol, basically this 🤣. I haven't got streaks over 3 or 4 but for some odd reason I hit more great skill checks when ruin is active than without it... It's odd...
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So I see two reasons to fix this "bug" 1. Que times 2. Stop people from dodging in lobby. Maybe that is a form of grieving?
Personally I don't think the benefits out weight the negatives. To play a game that can last 5-15+ min and you hating every second of it, for me, is worse than just waiting an extra 5min or so in the lobby because you decide to leave or 2+ min in the pregame lobby because someone left.
Information is always good.
If someone doesn't want to play with someone else, it doesn't make sense to force them. And since that depends on so many variables maybe people would rather play the game with lower ranks rather than wait longer but at least they will make an informed decision.
In the end if someone is waiting for a long time to que most often than not they'll just stay in the game with low ranks anyways. If que speeds are fast than they might switch but in that situation que times are fast so noone will suffer long wait times.
Also if you remove rank why not remove prestige/survivor level. I personally use that just as much to see if I want to play with someone. A level 3 Kate, I know only has 1 perk. That decreases our chances of winning right there.
Also why even have rank icons at all?
For me the most important thing is que time. I don't mind playing with lower ranks. But I'd rather someone leave pregame lobby than DC in the first 3min of a game.
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@Peanits said:
I know this isn't a very serious thread, but let's try to turn this into something constructive. How many average kills do you think something should get per match before you consider it to be overperforming? We can talk specifically about red ranks if you prefer.
Why base it on average kills? Any killer can face camp and average 1 kill. I'd have to do the math but I think it might even be possible to average 2 kills per game just by face camping. Especially if the survivor suicides out of frustration and in that situation it would actually make more sense for a solo que survivor to suicide and jump in another match than stay and take the bp hit.
Score per category might be a better metric to evaluate performance. Since it more accurately shows performance.
From there I'd base over performance on the hunter and sacrifice categories specifically. Because that determines the success rate of that killer doing its primary objective.
Now to say what should be the average... now that is rough. I guess counter play is key because in the end of the day all the numbers give you an idea but don't really tell the whole story. Evaluate each power and add-on. Define the counter to it. Through streamers/gameplay videos see if the counter works as intended or even if they (we) figure it out. And in the end of the day this game has to have a bit of over performance based on the type of game it is. 1v4. I agree with TRUtalent the steamer. The killer HAS to eventually be able to down the survivor the question is how long does it take the killer to do that. There are a lot of variables in this question so it is hard to have a definitive answer but as an example the recent spirit change where they took away collision. That for me was a great change because collision imo took away counter play to the spirits power.
So in conclusion.... IDK 🤣 As long as there is counter play I guess it doesn't matter how many kills a killer is averaging. Use kills and score to see if the counter play is working as intended.
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Tunneling and camping aren't issues. I understand the post though. You are frustrated, but honestly, camping is one of the worst things a killer can do. It is a guaranteed 3+ completed gens if done in the start of the game. The only issue I see is when the hooked survivor suicides out of frustration and kills the advantage that was given to their teammates. There are perks that you can us that will help you in camping and tunneling situations. Use them and increase your chance of escape. But hey, I get it. It is frustrating when I get tunneled and camped.
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All good, I read it, it was a fun read. In the end of the day that is why we do it. For the fun of it. GG.
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@Trwth said:
When the Legion Reveal Trailer dropped, people thought that the new Killer would do exactly as you proposed: disguising as a Survivor. The idea of being able to do that sounds amazing, really. Whether it happens or not, I’m not really sure.
About the power itself you proposed, I think it should do more. I always wanted a Killer that excels in stealth and deception rather than chases, so in order to be effective, there must be more. I’d like to see this idea be built further. 😁
Thank you for the comment. I'm hoping to get a brain storming session going and see if we can mix and match ideas. The creation process is fun to me and bouncing off ideas between people can be really fun. If egos are checked of course, lol. To your point, the idea of a killer who deceives and doesn't really chase is a fun one.
The long post is for those who work the night shift and are extremely bored (me) or like to read. For all others don't worry about the wall of text there is a TL;DR at the end. xD
- The Fifth (1)
Since Legions focus will be on getting as close as possible to the survivors before starting the chase or even tricking the survivor to approach him, the idea of disguise, terror radius manipulation and maybe mimicking survivor movements is how I see him playing. The killer that comes to mind and inspires me is Freddy. Freddy if the survivor is not in the sleep state is invisible when he is a certain distance away and I feel like that can be used on Legion but instead of being invisible he copies the appearance of a survivor. That survivor can be the obsession or maybe just a survivor at random. But to balance him a bit he is never shown carrying an item. I feel this gives a bit of counter play to this trait. I'll be calling this trait (Telephone) for reference.
Aside from Telephone which is passive, Legion will also be able to activate (Mimic). Legion crouches and has no terror radius. When near a generator Legion moves like he/she is working on the generator (also adds sounds). While crouched he copies the appearance of a survivor or the obsession but only if he/she is standing still for X seconds. While using Mimic on a generator Legion (Sabotages) the generator.
Sabotage works as followed. You get X amount of skill checks per generator, for each good check the next time a survivor works on the generator his skill check is harder. For each great skill check by Legion the next time a survivor works on the generator the skill check is harder, will sound on a good skill check as if he missed the skill check and will regress X% on a miss. Nothing happens if the survivor hits a great skill check. Think of it as a soft Ruin Hex.
Lastly, (Spooked), Legion can hide in lockers. When hidden in a locker Legion's terror radius increases by X meters for X seconds. After X seconds in the locker Legion loses all his terror radius.
- TL;DR V1
--The Fifth (Legions new skill) focuses on disguise, generator sabotage, and terror radius manipulation.
--While X yards away the legion copies the appearance of the obsession/random survivor
--Legion crouches and has no terror radius. When near a generator Legion moves like if working on the generator (also adds sounds). While crouched Legion copies the appearance of a survivor or the obsession but only if standing still for X seconds.
--Legion can sabotage the generators.
--Legion can hide in lockers
- The Fifth (2)
The second version of The Fifth will be almost identical to the first. Telephone and Sabotage will work the same. Mimic will be a bit different. In this version Mimic will work with a timer and on a cooldown. In version 2 Legion can activate Mimic to crouch, when crouching Legion has no terror radius as before but he copies a survivor for X seconds but the disguise only activates if a survivor is in Legions FOV.
If Legion stands the disguise is removed and a cooldown begins. Legion can still crouch but the cooldown timer only activates when Legion is standing. Legion does not give out an aura if survivors are using perks such as Bond. (Maybe Legion when disguise is removed gets a speed boost?) Survivors can remove Legions disguise if they have him in FOV for X amount of seconds.
Spooked is also changed a bit in version 2. Spooked allows Legion to hide in lockers. While in a locker Legion has no terror radius. When Legion exits the locker the locker is blocked from further use for X seconds and leaves Legions terror radius in the lockers location for X seconds. Legion gets a speed boost if he stays in the locker for X seconds.
I'm still a bit iffy on the speed boosts because I feel like it's lazy but if anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them.
- TL;DR V2
--Telephone and Sabotage works the same.
--when crouching Legion has no terror radius as before but he copies a survivors appearance for X seconds but the disguise only activates if a survivor is in Legions FOV.
--Spooked is also changed it's a small read on the last paragraph. Doesn't make sense to summarize.
-- This version plays more with the idea of FOV and terror radius manipulation.