Risky_Biscuit
Risky_Biscuit
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Working as intended. You're not being camped. Devs have stated that proxy camping was always an intended part of the game, and the anti-camping mechanic is doing exactly what it's supposed to.
It Was never designed as a guaranteed free escape for survivors UNLESS they were actively being camped by a killer, as in standing within a certain radius of the hook. That's why the timer pauses when another survivor is near.
Killers should have the ability to proxy camp, and even the devs agree. The mechanics around actually camping hooks have already been addressed and as shown in the video, are in fact working properly.
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Still holding out hope for an FNAF chapter with Springtrap as the killer, and an appropriate map.
Kinda shocked we haven't gotten it yet.
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Dredge was a great killer. He did a bit of everything in his kit, and brought some horror back to DBD. Singularity felt like an attempt at doing the same thing, but it fell short because of how much built-in counterplay it had, and just how clunky playing him felt.
I'm personally hoping that whatever we get for an anniversary chapter this time, will be something the community has been wanting, like Springtrap.
I know some people really hate the idea, but if he does finally join the roster, along with a fitting map, I think he could be one of the most hype licenses yet. I'm still holding out hope for FNAF. It has a movie out, with a sequel in the works. No longer just a little indie horror game anymore.
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If I get steamrolled by arrogant survivors. If they teabag me often and finish gens rapidly, or if I get barely any hooks, I'll purposely open the gates, then go hide far away so they can't get their jollies from me trying to smack them out of the exit gate. I make the end game as boring as possible for them.
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Maps really are an issue. I really felt it the other day, playing Dredge on Grim Pantry. I usually do really well with him, often getting 4ks. I got looped to oblivion, and ran across the map as gens flew. It was awful. All 4 of them got out, and I'm pretty sure there was some cheating going on anyway, as it felt like I was struggling to catch them alot of the time. Same thing happened on Thompson House...
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If that were true, explain how I lost as Dredge, who I've gotten numerous 4ks with before and after this patch.
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Absolutely not. This is beyond overpowered. Don't get me wrong, I agree that DS does need a buff, but this is not the way to do it.
Completely shutting down a killer's power with a single perk is ridiculously overpowered. It doesn't need to do that.
All DS needs is the 5 second stun duration back. That's it. And maybe a small haste effect to help the survivor actually escape without getting downed soon after. Otherwise this perk is fine.
No need to make it overwhelming for the killer side.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3093641#Comment_3093641
lol i think you're the one entitled here. Survivor gameplay right now is just outright boring and unfun, that's why they do this. It also doesn't have anything to do with Dead Hard. There is not even a compensation for those ######### games in terms of BP. Saying that killers were the ones who got always nerfed is just pure "us vs. them" mentality. How long do you play this game, 2 months?
Been here since before Clown's release, but that's irrelevant. Acting like killers haven't had it rough for quite awhile is the embodiment of survivor entitlement.
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I think this comes down to survivor entitlement. They're whining about the changes to killers, who for the longest time have been on the receiving end of nerfs and changes, while survivors have gone relatively unscathed.
With this patch, survivors finally got hit with the nerf bat, and it's looking like many of them simply aren't taking it well. They're refusing to adapt and instead think that by throwing a tantrum via dcing every match or killing themselves on hook, that they'll convince the devs to revert every change survivors dislike.
Now, I'm not saying that this patch is perfect, as even killers got some heavy handed nerfs to perks that quite frankly, didn't really need nerfs. Survivors definitely got hit harder, and I can absolutely see a few perks that could benefit from very minor adjustments. Same for killers though. Both sides could be given back some of their perks:
Killer:
Tinkerer - Really didn't need the nerf. It was already fair, and simply ket them keep up pressure on the right gens, which is healthy for the game.
Ruin - Completely gutted and useless now. There's zero reason to use this anymore, plus it's a hex perk, which already made it bad.
Corrupt Intervention - Again, I see no reason why this was nerfed, considering it lasts a maximum of 120 seconds, then leaves you with 3 perks. It's an ok perk, but adding on an effect that makes it stop working once you down a survivor, on top of a timed effect anyway, what's the point ?
Survivor:
Decisive Strike - Probably the only survivor perk that actually does need a buff, I do agree with it going back up to a 5 second stun. This perk is worthless against those non-camping and tunneling killers, so that 5 second stun is honestly fair.
Dead Hard - Yeah, this one can stay dead. If they do buff it at all, then it shouldn't be too much. I could see a tiny buff to the duration being up to .75 seconds from .5, but otherwise this thing needs to remain as is.
Ultimately, survivors may actually need a couple changes, but the reality is that killers did need the help. Time will tell if the devs got carried away or not, and I'm ok with possible changes to both sides as long as they make sense hoing forward.
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Disagree. I actually think that perks being dusabled in end game is fine. They had no problem making perks that dusable after a set period at the start of the game (Lethal Pursuer, Corrupt Intervention), and oerks that permanently shut off after set conditions (Lucky Break). So I see no issue with keeping in trend with these types of perks by having some deactivated in the end game. In the case of OTR and DS, it's needed, lest players get free escapes for no reason.
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@Gladonos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3086157#Comment_3086157
Yes, they are DCing, they are giving up instantly, they are afk dying on hook. No ######### shirlock. These are the consequences of being overpowered. Turns out the people you are playing against are real people. What they are not doing is conspiring by dying to inflate kill rates.
They absolutely are. I haven't seen it yet in my games too much, but yes, people on here have been claiming they will do these things intentionally just to make their point.
Pretending it's not happening is nonsense. Killers got buffs and nerfs, the same way that survivors did. The difference is that survivors are the majority, and are acting like children because they refuse to accept and adapt to these changes, opting instead to throw a fit by purposely dying in games and making every match miserable until they get their way. Their actions have consequences, and they won't be in the form of massive sweeping survivor buffs. Hopefully these children get permabanned from the game for acting this way.
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DS I actually agree on, but if it gets reverted to 5 seconds, then they should revert the Enduring changes to allow it to reduce the stun from DS again, not just from pallets.
DH on the other hand, can stay exactly how it is currently. It was a broken crutch perk before, and now it requires the user to time it flawlessly to get use from it. No changes needed. In time, I could possibly see the window of activation needing a very tiny buff to .75 seconds, but other than that, no. It's fine as is.
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@NiiiCX said:
At first I was happy about new patch.
The more I play, as Killer or Surv, the more I get bored.
Surv : DC everygame or camp/tunnel ( I let myself get hooked the moment I see a nurse with regression perks )
Killer ( When I can wait 30 min to find a game ): 4K everygame without even trying ( only 3k's when hatch ) and no game has been even CLOSE.
It's not about adapting without noobhard. It's about nerfing survs into oblivion while killers got everything buffed. They should've nerfed noed. removed noobhard and put 90sec gens. that's all.
Killers had their meta perks nerfed too you know.
Noed didn't need a nerf (survivors need to do bones more often if they hate Noed so much.) The nerf was honestly not needed.
Deadhard didn't need to be removed, just severely nerfed to a point of being fair, which they did. Kudos to them for fixing this OP perk that carried survivors way too hard.
90 second gens is fine as is. A very small change that can easily be erased by multiple survivors working on a single gen, and using toolboxes.
The other buffs to killers were also needed. Faster weapon recovery speed, pallet break speed, and bloodlust buffs were all there to help alleviate the headaches of entering extended chases with god looper survivors. All of these are fair.
I will say that yes, survivors will likely need to learn to adapt and switch up their builds to find a new answer to killers, which we all know they will eventually. For now we need to let this new meta take shape, and then the devs can adjust things as needed. I know Thanataphobia might be on the chopping block due to the Legion and Plague using it to great effect. But still. Changes happen and we all eventually adapt or get the devs to make changes on unforeseen issues. That's exactly how OTR and the endurance stacking problems got fixed before release.
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It's perfectly balanced now. Takes actual skill to use, requiring perfect timing to earn the endurance effect. I've yet to get frustrated by it now that they fixed it and made it actually fair.
Survivors will no longer be able to rely on a bs perk to erase their mistakes, and now have to play better and adapt. That's why they're crying. Because they lost their biggest crutches that gave them ez mode wins. Training wheels are gone, so now they think they've been "gutted". Of course, they had no problem watching killers repeatedly suffer from nerf after nerf, because that only benefitted the survivor base.
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@BubbleBuster said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080609#Comment_3080609
"it was not a problem"
true in terms of balance, it is a balanced perk
wrong in the community aspect. Ever since this perk existed, which was this game s launch people have complained about it.
Maybe a perk that ruins fun or is just really unfun to play against shouldn't exist?
in a game about fun deleting something unfun yet balanced might be a good idea :) Hope one day there ll be a poll about this so we can have actual statistics about people disliking/liking perks.
also the name is super unfitting still. the name implies that it would be an anti-hatch perk yet it is just a mistake fixer that gives undeserved unconditional wins when it works.
Maybe a perk that ruins fun shouldn't exist ? So good, we can now delete Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Circle of Healing, etc...
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So are killers supposed to play suboptimally ? If gen regression perks are being used, then aren't killers just playing in a way that makes sense ? It's still their job to prevent escapes, and gen regression helps aid that.
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Gens still potentially get done plenty fast. 10 extra seconds per gen is completely negated by multiple people per gen.
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NOED should go back to how it was before this patch. It was never a problem before, and the entire point of it was to surprise survivors at the end game. Giving them the ability to see it is honestly stupid. Half the challenge was locating NOED during end game so you don't risk losing. It was meant to be risky for survivors and force them to leave. It needs to go back to that.
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We hear this every patch. Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3076545#Comment_3076545
It just shows the mindset of most killer mains. They just want power and the feeling of winning FOR FREE, because they deserve it for picking that role. You really think a 1v4 is balanced if the 1 person has a much bigger chance of winning? Even in a 2v2 game it would be hilarious if they give one side an advantage. Imagine counter terrorists in CS would be stronger than terrorists because they have more modern equipment.
Why should the survivors keep on playing then, because they're all masochists? Do you really think the game would work this way, or do you even care about the game at all? Killers had better win ratios than survivors, it was fine and only needed slight adjustments.
I got this power feeling many times before the update as killer and it felt rewarding because I knew I was better. Maybe you should invest in getting better instead of demanding something for free. The balance right now is just off
I have no desire to get free wins whatsoever. I also have no desire to see survivors get free wins because of having access to broken mechanics like Dead Hard, and dozens of ways to fix their own mistakes.
The game has not been in the killer's favor for awhile now. This patch finally brought them back to a place they should be. And even with these changes, survivors will eventually adapt and find new strategies. They're just not used to having to actually be skillful, since they're so accustomed to abusable perks and strats that net them easy wins and trolling the killer. Now that's become harder to do, so they whine on the forums about how unfair the game is, even though it isn't.
In time, the dust will settle. If there are any problems after that, then those things will be adjusted. If survivors are doing so poorly as the forums claim, they'll be looked at, and adjusted accordingly. Just like always.
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@Sumnox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075780#Comment_3075780
Because this was the bad killers patch. The kind of killers who want "to be the power role" and "be respected and feared", without actually deserving any power role, respect, or fear.
Back in 2016-17-18-19, when killers were not nearly as powerful as they are now compared to much more powerful survivors, you were taught fear and respect by actually good killers who just outplayed you. That's when you respected them.
For a while now though and especially after this last patch, killers are a joke. The game is forcing a win for them, they don't achieve anything. So at this point it's just hard to tell who's good and who's not good.
This is looking more and more like a cutscene rather than an online PvP game.
Man, if only I could just stand there and get 4 kills. Oh wait, Killer players still have to work for their kills just like always. The only difference now is survivors lost some of their busted perks that gave them massive advantages over ehat should have been the power role.
The gap has been closed between Killer and Survivor, and these changes have not impacted how good survivors can be. They just have less BS ways to cheat killers out of kills now.
I played as killer several times last night, once as Clown and got steamrolled just like old times. I was actively kicking gens and chasing survivors but it made zero difference. They still all escaped.
Yes, Killer buffs happened, but we got nerfs as well. Killer feels much better to play than before but these changes alone are not the be all end all to end the survivors' reign of terror. Good survivors will still stomp killers, period. Now they just have less chances to screw up before it costs them.
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@solidhex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3071217#Comment_3071217
what most killer mains understand under "power role" is simply to win every game with a snap of their fingers. They want to be feared just because they exist, not because they're good. What game is this where one role basically wins every game without needing any skill or knowledge? Killer pre-patch needed skill and that's fine and good. It was an interesting role because it needed strategy and tactics. Now it needs none of these. Most of the people complaining how hard and unfair killer is weren't even good killers to begin with. Yes, the same goes for a lot of survivors. But better Bloodlust, great gen control and a general faster and smoother gameplay makes sure that the killer has always the upper hand without having to do much for it.
Killers are supposed to be the power role. That means that they shoukd have the tools to be capable of emerging victorious if they play well enough. If they capitalize on survivors' mistakes, they should be rewarded for doing so.
This whole "2 escapes, 2 kills" mentality is ridiculous. That is a draw for both sides. The correct result should be 1 escape, 3 kills on average, with exceptions for good teamwork and communication.
Survivors are mad because their broken crutch perks were taken away and made either less useful or simply require more skill and precision to use. They've been on top for so long that they believed they shoukd remain in an overpowered state. Obviously, the devs disagreed and adjusted balance accordingly. It probably needs some tweaking, in the case of DS being kinda too weak with a 3 second stun, but for the most part, this patch fixed alot of issues that finally made Killers the power role once more.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3072608#Comment_3072608
There's not chasing. They're all camping!
Funny, I'm a killer main and haven't resorted to camping or tunneling at all, even before this patch. Because it's not valuable and results in a loss.
Though I do play Dredge, so it's really quite boring to stand there and camp when I could TP and get a 4K instead of a 1K or less.
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@Sluzzy said:
Fantastic as in the game needs to be completely broken in favor of killer with an unfair advantage, then I don't see how that is actually fun to know you are guaranteed to win.
That is not the definition of a game.
Except killers aren't guaranteed wins still. Played a match last night where all 5 gens got done and they all escaped. This was me playing Clown on Midwich, and I couldn't end chases any easier. The map still sucks for Killers.
But tell me again how the game is 100% a guaranteed win for killers now.
It isn't. The only difference now, is that survivors aren't granted as many get out of jail free cards, and actively have to put in effort to win. No more BS DS stuns, Dead Harding for distance, etc...
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@designator said:
It just makes it harder to get value from your perks and punishes survivors for getting to endgame so baby killers can have an easier time tunneling someone out. Why not disable every survivor perk during endgame? Hell let's disable exhaustion perks too.
Game isn't over until everyone has escaped or is dead. Baby survivors aren't entitled to a guaranteed escape just because they finished 5 gens.
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My question is where are all these supposed campers and tunnelers ? You hear stories on these forums about how they're super common, but I don't see it. Maybe once every 6 games if any, and they gave survivors a countermeasure. Don't like campers and tunnelers ? Bring OTR. You've got 80 seconds of endurance to burn. Use it.
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That's funny, considering gens are still flying just as fast as always. That 10 seconds is completely negated by multiple survivors doing one gen. I don't think I've had a single game yet where any less than 2-3 gens got done except for a single game on Midwich, which I lost horribly on because it's a garbage map and survivors can loop you for eternity still. Other than that though, every match has had at least 2-3 gens done before I locked in a 4K. (Mostly because Dredge and survivors making mistakes.)
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Dead Hard is fine now. I just went up against someone using it and they timed their dodge flawlessly. It's no longer a get out of jail free card, but rather a skillful dodge against the killer now.
I was genuinely impressed by their timing with it, and it finally felt fair on my end, like they actually earned that dodge instead of just pressing E to gain extra distance. Granted, I still got a 4K that match, but this is the first time I've ever been impacted by Dead Hard and not gotten angry about it. Now it's a skill based reactionary perk that rewards good timing. The way it should be.
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Garden of Joy is bad, but RPD is hands down the worst map in the game, right alongside Midwich and Badham Preschool. Hate those 3 maps.
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Lethal Pursuer only has it's primary effect work for a maximum of 11 seconds (after the buff). It having a secondary effect is perfectly reasonable, since the perk would do its thing, then be an empty slot afterwards. Now at least it has a usage beyond the initial effect. No need to change it.
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NOED is already dead on arrival in this next patch. Now it shows itself to the survivors after a brief period. It's even worse now, and it was already bad since it's a Hex Perk.
Nobody's going to use it after these nerfs go through, as it's a guaranteed totem break for survivors. The whole point of NOED was to force survivors to leave the trial or they'd risk being downed, and while that's still the case technically, it lights up for the survivors now, so there's no doubt that they'll find it and break it before leaving. The risk factor has been severely diminished with this nerf.
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I'm all for it. I've always felt like pallets should be blocked by the entity if a survivor loops the same pallet 3 times, just like with vaults. If a survivor doesn't drop the pallet after passing it 3 times, the entity will block the pallet for a brief time.
I love the Hex: Blood Favor effect, but it being a hex is stupid. I'd kill to see it be a normal perk honestly. The fact that it blocks pallets just for smacking a survivor is a godsend.
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He's my main still, I just haven't been playing DBD much since the Anniversary Update. Once the new update drops, with the Killer Buffs, I'll be playing again. I'm waiting for the prestige rework before I jump back in, since I have him ready to be prestiged, but don't want to lose the tons of good perks and addons I have stockpiled on him.
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Corrupt should have just become base kit like Borrowed time did. It was already just an ok-ish perk that didn't really impact things that much. Yeah, it blocks 3 gens but that was all it did. Then once the timer ran out, you're down to 3 perks. Personally, I thought it should have been buffed a little bit, to where after the initial effects end, it would block the generator with the most progress for a brief time, and keep doing this for every time a gen got finished.
The nerf was completely unnecessary. It was already fine and needed a buff if anything, especially since it's on a timer and stops working after that timer ends.
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Totem spawns Boons, and Hex Perks.
Most totem spawns still stick out like a sore thumb, and Hexes are rarely worth using thanks to Boons and bad rng with spawns.
I'd like to see either a dedicated hex perk slot for killer (like a 5th perk slot, but only for hexes), or a mechanic where hexes and totems get blocked for a bit before things get going. This way hexes can be guaranteed some value, and boons aren't available immediately.
I'd like for boons to have a universal cooldown or something to limit their usage. So even if everyone brings a boon perk, once the boon is snuffed, it goes on a cooldown for all players. Maybe like a minute or more.
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Even though I'm a Killer main, I actually agree with them reverting the stun time to 4 or 5 seconds. Everything else can stay as is though.
If they're going to revert the stun timer back to 5 seconds though, then they need to revert the nerf to Enduring too, and let it be a counter to DS again by reducing the stun timer like it used to.
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Shrodingers' Nurse:
- The Nurse player is good at Nurse.
Or
- The Nurse player sucks at playing Nurse.
There is no in-between.
Nurse is fine. She's either god tier or absolute garbage. She's necessary, unless you want survivors winning every game. She's the only killer who gives good survivors a run for their money, because she ignores their defenses, which no other killer can do to the same extent. Unless they're planning on majorly buffing every killer to compensate for a Nurse Nerf, she should be left as is.
She forces survivors to play differently, which is good for the game, even if survivor mains with their numerous second chance perks think otherwise. No, looping and holding W key should not win you every match, sorry. Nurse punishes survivors who get too cocky thinking they're gods, leveling the playing field. Plus, she already was nerfed. So she's fine. Adapt, and learn to play against her.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061978#Comment_3061978
No, but it would be more fun, so what exactly is the excuse against that?
Not necessarily. For killer players, chasing survivors through loop after loop, pallet after pallet isn't fun. It's tedious and annoying. Don't get me wrong, I don't really see any appeal in camping myself, even being a killer main, but chases that last too long are boring, and hurt killers more than anything. If one chase lasts too long, say goodbye to 3 generators. Looping is obnoxious, just like camping is, and both hurt the killer's chances of winning.
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@boogerboy123 said:
what game are you guys playing where you get camped and tunnelled every game?
Literally this. I keep hearing how killers are doing this, but I don't buy it. Camping is a losing strat unless survivors are exceptionally altruistic, and tunneling, while annoying, still hurts the killer since they're committed to that survivor until they tunnel them out. By that time, 2-3 gens should be done, easily.
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I don't think many will actually leave, except the bad ones who relied on crutch perks to win games. I play killer, so things will hopefully be better on our end.
Let's be real here, survivors will just find new combinations to abuse the killer with, now that their easymode perks were finally addressed. Those that refuse to adapt and learn will leave when they realize they can't get easy wins as much as before.
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I think it's BS that they removed the BP component, but I'll still use it on my Dredge. The setup I use will let me find survivors easily, just as it always has. Plus with Lethal Pursuer being buffed, aura reading is stronger in general.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061681#Comment_3061681
So the game wouldn't die if they removed camping
The game wouldn't die if they keep camping in either, clearly.
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They didn't ignore the requests. They addressed several of them:
Overcharge - Was being complained about. They nerfed its values to make it much less powerful even when combined with Call of Brine.
Dead Hard - Nerfed further after survivors learned how to abuse it with the new endurance stacking problems.
Off The Record - Was due for a significant nerf, which they delivered, giving it the DStrike treatment, removing it as an end game option, just as people asked for. Fixed the endurance stacking issue as well.
Endurance - Addressed the stacking problem by making it not work while under deep wounds.
So yes, they did listen to the community. Just because they didn't do everything we wanted doesn't mean they ignored us. They did what they felt were reasonable changes, even if we don't all necessarily agree with that sentiment. Even the things you mentioned were things they did address, just not exactly the way some folks felt they should have.
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@ryans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3061483#Comment_3061483
The game is dying, almost everyone I know played it has already given it up
Everyone says that, yet the game is still being played, and this anniversary update had a significant player count.
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@Onyx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3060960#Comment_3060960
Literally just weak excuse. Camping should be removed entirely as a strategy. Survivors ability to play the game should not lie in the hands of killers. Everybody should be able to last the length of the match.
Camping isn't possible to remove as a strategy. Unless you want the game to die.
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So basically, Nerf Killers and give them zero compensation for terrible nerf ideas.
Unhook Grabs - Needed to be able to punish overzealous, altruistic survivors who think they can just unhook in the killer's face without consequences. Going for unsafe hooks ? Why should you be rewarded for that by being 100% immune to being grabbed ?
Killer Powers Near Hooks - Again, you want to take away the killer's ability to punish players who unhook in their face. Terrible idea that's been suggested alot on these forums. Let's take away the survivor's ability to do gens every time somone is hooked. Does that sound fair to you ? Punishing survivors for doing their job ? Didn't think so. Another awful idea to nerf killers for no reason.
Basement - High risk area for survivors to go for rescues. Easy area for killers to protect. Nothing wrong with this area. It's been a staple since the beginning and has no reason to be gutted and removed just to make everything even easier for survivors. Survivors have looping, second chances, etc. Killers have Basement hooks. Not equal, but still something killers can use to their advantage.
Borrowed Time - No. Just... no. The unhooker does not deserve to get a free endurance effect for rescuing their teammates. Their reward is the rescue itself, which is always a risky play, as it should be. There are 4 survivors to 1 killer. Two of you do not need a guaranteed endurance effect to waste the killer's time even more than survivors already do.
None of these changes are good ideas. These would only serve to punish the killers player for simply doing their job. Patrolling gens and hooks. You want to take away what little power killers have in these scenarios and that is a terrible idea. Survivors would risk nothing with your proposed changes, which goes against the risk factor the game is meant to have. You make risky plays, you risk the killer getting you. Perfectly balanced as all things should be.
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Jumpscare Myers. Also, Mikey can't be cheated out of his power like GF can.
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Staying indoors.
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Even when I do play survivor, I don't see many camping killers. There's always a few, but I'm not seeing this major camping problem that survivors keep talking about.
When I play killer, I literally don't camp. I've lost games consistently by trying camping, and you know what happened ? Lost almost every time I did it. Gens got blasted though, hooked survivor got rescued, and all 4 escaped. I've been better off playing the game the way it was intended.
So again, I don't see camping working out well for killers. Where is this occurring ?
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So grant the survivors faster gen repair speeds if the Killer camps the hook ? Yeah, that's a really terrible idea.
If killers are gonna camp hooks, then let them do it. Go do gens, and gen rush them. Hell, with the upcoming changes, unsafe hook rescuse will be more frequent thanks to this new endurance stacking meta that's going to be abused until it gets nerfed (as it should be before it goes live).