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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308633#Comment_3308633
I should remember to put */i at the end of such posts. I thought the grin smiley gave it away.
Yea didn't notice cuz I am down with the sickness rite now (covid) and my attention span isn't super great. Ree.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3308609#Comment_3308609
Actually, yeah. - I'd be up for the trade: Eruption can only be triggered once per gen and in exchange once DH was used successfully it deactivates for the rest of the trial. (Tbh. Overcome/Lucky Break+Mettle sounds like it could be fun - especially if more than one person per trial is running it 😬)
Generally speaking that is a really bad way to balance games. You shouldn't be trying to "trade" one thing for another.
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A better solution would be to heavily limit the amount of items you can have on any one character at a time based on its rarity. As someone who also has hundreds of every item I think its really stupid that I can play with Purple+ tier items without any repercussions simply because I have played the game longer than someone else who hasn't. This would have the added benefit of incentivizing you to use those lower tier items simply because they would be the only things remaining in your inventory unless you spent all of your blood points regaining items you just lose.
Unfortunately its too late for them to add a system like this though due to the aformentioned stack of hundreds of items that many of us have.
The game isn't balanced around everyone being able to constantly bring the best items in the game all the time, and yet I see a purple item or offering maybe 3+ times a match on average, and I actively refuse to bring items into matches unless I am doing a tome challenge so those purples I am seeing are only coming from the other 4 players.
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Lets make Eruption disable if its triggers a single time. Or disable every exposed perk if you get a successful down with any exposed perk.
Yea no, this is just a bad idea.
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1) Making gift of pain base kit would likely result in the follwing:
Survivors would refuse to heal, basically turning every game into a match against Plague or Legion. In order for this to be a large enough incentive for the killers to not tunnel the percentage of gen speed reduction would have to be fairly substantial, otherwise it would still be more beneficial to tunnel survivors out of the game. If you give the killers the free ability to reduce survivor generator speeds by any amount, let alone a substantial amount, all that does is cause more frustration for the survivors. Then you have the obvious problem that this would simply result in a "Meta" where the correct play for survivors is to simply not heal. This would result in a higher usage rate for Resilience and Dead Hard, two perks that already see a ton of play (so not really something you'd want to do). I am not sure how For The People works with Gift of Pain but that might be the only "safe" way to counter this effect, which isn't really a good thing.
Overall this wouldn't result in less tunneling unless the numbers were substantial enough, in which case it would be way to much of a buff for the side that already has a significantly higher win rate (60% is HUGE when talking about PvP games).
2) Giving the killer base kit detection
If we are talking about base kit BBQ this isn't a great idea for a few reasons, one of the main ones being that BBQ is already one of the more commonly used perks. Giving this perk to killers for free would only result in killers swapping out this perk for other things. Do you really want a 5 perk nurse/blight/spirit in your game? I don't think so. There are already a TON of different detection perks in the game (personally I think there are too many and its almost impossible to play around all of them as a survivor but that is my own subjective opinion). There are perks that give detection on the following events: Downing a survivor, picking up a survivor, hooking a survivor, unhooking a survivor from specific hooks, healing a survivor, survivors letting go of generators, survivors completing generators, survivors opening chests, survivors going into the basement, survivors working on totems, survivors fast vaulting through windows, opening any locker, generators regressing, crows flying because they were disturbed by a survivor, being within 32 meters of a survivor at any given time (whispers). Honestly pretty much anything and everything a survivor can interact with there is a detection perk to help find them. There is no reason to give killers more detection for free with no repercussions.
3) Nerfing Dead Hard
They did that already. Thrice. Once by changing how the perk functioned (you have to be sprinting to activate it), once by changing it to an endurance effect instead of i-frames with a dash, and once by changing how the Endurance state functioned. I am not really sure how you could possibly nerf dead hard any further without removing it from the game or giving it extremely strict usage conditions that would make it utterly useless as an exhaustion perk. On the other hand I am not sure how you could buff the other exhaustion perks to make them more desirable without changing how the exhausted status effect works or greatly extending the sprint timer on the other perks (even extending it by 1 second is an additional 33% duration, which is massive). Dead Hard is also in an unfortunate place where it is simultaneously extremely strong and also needed to counter certain things.
Side note, your solution to tunneling is to Nerf one of the survivors anti-tunneling perks? That is kind of strange to me.
4) The basic game knowledge that recuing someone from the hook requires 2 survivors to be in the same place (except for deliverance) and you get a notification of where that is.
I can spit ball a few solutions to this problem really quick:
Give survivors a way to "silently" recue other players from the hook, even if this required a perk slot with a cool down to do so. This isn't the best solution as it might result in more camping than already exists due to killers not wanting to be blindsided about survivors escaping their hooks, but then again maybe not. This wouldn't remove the HUD changing from "hooked" to "injured", nor would it remove the fact that you can physically see their aura suddenly vanishing. My only concern with something like this is that it likely wouldn't see a lot of play from survivors unless it has some other additional benefit due to the lack of value that stealth perks have these days (there are too many detection perks to consistently stealth in solo queue).
incentivize the killer to go so far away from the hook that it isn't feasible to get back to the hook in time after an unhook. I am not sure exactly how you would do this. Devour Hope comes close but the range on its activate isn't long enough to prevent tunneling, or even camping with some killers (Huntress, Blight, Nurse ect.).
Buff and/or rework Borrowed Time (the perk, not base kit) in one (or more?) of the following ways:
- Have Borrowed Time apply a sort of "healing received" buff to the unhooked player. This results in giving the player who did the unhooking more incentive to take protection hits, or even go down, for the player who got unhooked knowing that they will have an easier time getting healed which is a net positive in relation to just having the unhooked player go down again.
- Revert it back to its original state where it gives both the unhooker, and the unhooked survivor endurance. With the last meta shakeup the changes to how fast killers can recover from hitting a survivor made it nearly impossible to unhook near a killer without going down yourself. The killer will hit you, wipe the blood off their weapon, and then hit you again all before you can unhook the survivor and make any distance, you can't even use dead hard in this situation because dead hard now requires you to be moving.
- Increase the timer by 30 or 40 seconds instead of just 10. 10 seconds (on top of base kit) is simply not enough value for the perk to see play in the games current state. This additional time could even just be for the haste effect and not the endurance effect.
I want to be clear that these changes are not massive buffs to the survivor side and are strictly ways to prevent tunneling. Borrowed time, on its own, is somewhat lacking. The additional 10 seconds is nice but often times isn't enough to matter on its own. These are also just ideas that I came up with off the top of my head, I am sure I could come up with better ideas given more time.
To truly understand the problem with tunneling here is what you have to do. Think about any other team based player vs player game and then try and think of a legitimate situation where completely removing someone from the enemy team doesn't give your team a distinct advantage. That is the problem with DBD. It is a PvP Team based game (killer just happens to have a team size of 1) where one side has the ability to remove teammates from the other side.
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@Zeita said:
maps Obviously have dead Zones on Purpose. both survivers and killers have to have a strong balence. if you know as a surviver were a dead zone is either a natural one or one were all the pallets were used. then you obviously avoid that Area during a chase. its like survivers want cheap easy lazy Loops Handed to them cause they dont want to Work for anything anymore. we want both the Killer AND Surviver to Work Hard. not Give survivers an easy win or the Killer to easy of a Win. its a Game of Skill and Strat not joy riding hunky dorey get out jail free cards
This wasn't really a discussion about dead zones, as that is a completely different topic.
The difference between a 'Dead Zone' and this particular set of stairs is that you can spot a dead zone from a mile away. These stairs give the illusion of safety which no other vault location in the game does. Additionally RPD in particular is one of those maps where having dead zones is infinitely more troublesome than any other map due to the fact that they cut it in half and opened up a lot of the walls and made a lot of the pallets significantly worse than they used to be. On most maps 'Dead Zones' usually at least have something that you can run around for a little while to buy some time, but on RPD when a you find yourself in a Dead Zone you are literally in a hallway with no where to run other than a strait line.
No one is asking for 'cheap easy lazy loops' to be 'handed to them cause they don't want to work for anything anymore' I am simply asking for the Devs to not put trap resources. I would legitimately rather that vault just completely removed rather than continue to watch new players (or players unfamiliar with the map) take that vault and die as a direct result of doing so. Again there is no other location like that in the entire game.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3253339#Comment_3253339
I think you have almost exactly the same situation when comming from the second staircase (on the very east side that is outside - the one connected with main gate via the new outside street). If you vault it from bottom, you die. If you vault it from side (helicopter), you gain very little. If you vault it from art room/waiting room, then you gain a little distance and can chain it with other obstacles. I think this is one of the more fair interactions within this map
The main difference between the two different staircase vaults is that, for the metal stairs, its not difficult at all to intentionally approach the stairs from a good angle. Its very easy to approach from the helicopter and still vault it as if coming from the hallway due to the way the connection room between the helicopter and those stairs is constructed. Taking that vault immediately after coming up the stairs is still pretty bad but 2/3 of your options to entering that vault are still pretty good, and all 3 of your options for exiting the vault are just better. Also It may be placebo but it feels like I don't get staggered at those stairs nearly as long.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/353470/rpd-west-side-spiral-stair-vault-is-a-trap
You are using the vault wrong. You can't use it when killer goes up the staircase (for reasons already mentioned). You can only use this vault if you come from main/library/bathroom to get to bottom a little bit quicker (where main side is worst of these 3 options). Also if you have some extra time (killer is not directly behind you), you can run outside (farthest away from killer) to end up next to almost god pallet - yes this one is far, but killer needs to follow you or you can change directions.
I mean this spot is not the strongest in game, but it's far from useless even without balanced landing (and sure enough, BL helps in this spot a lot and no you can't use it very quickly otherwise even if there are 3 possible drops that are not very far away).
I would honestly go so far as to say that using that vault from main is a death sentence. Using it from Library is the only 'consistent' way of using it considering that using it from Bathrooms isn't always available (50% of the time you play on that map those bathrooms aren't available). The problem is that you should never naturally be running from library to that hallway unless you are on the West side variant of that map due to the layout of East side variant. Because of that, if you are on the East side variant there are no good realistic options of using that vault, since if you are found in the library odds are its because you are doing the generator in that drop off room and the killer is in the doorway between that drop off room and the library leaving you only the option to drop off or take a hit and run through the killer.
I am not saying its impossible to find yourself in a position where you are running from the library to that vault, but the chances of that are so unlikely that you basically have to force it for the sake of forcing it. Its just extremely out of place as far as vaults go. I can't think of any other high vault locations (that don't have quick drops) off the top of my head where the killer can start behind me and hit me before I recover from the stagger.
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Reading this hurts my eyes. You need to learn to write paragraphs, not bricks.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Try not to work on gens you know the killer has kicked, or if you know he's chasing an injured person.
This is a good idea in theory, but what if you are in a 3 or 4 gen situation and the killer has kicked them all?
Or what if you are in a 5 gen situation and the killer has kicked the 3 gens closest to each other in an attempt you make you exclusively only do the other 2 gens to create a gen for later? Its really silly that a Single perk has the ability to create a 3-gen so effectively with little to no thought from the killer. They don't even have to baby sit the gen after kicking it, just set and forget.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Because she’s the only killer that can go toe to toe with well coordinated SWF who know what they’re doing and bring as much stuff into the match to stack everything in their favor.
If they nerf Nurse they will have to do something about SWF. They won’t do anything about SWF because it would seem like they’re punishing people for playing with their friends and fact of the matter is that SWFs are their main money maker so they wouldn’t want to upset those players. If they touch Nurse without touching SWF then it’ll upset killer mains and cause a backlash they definitely don’t want to deal with.
They’re basically stuck until they decided to make it where SWF can’t abuse maps with an abundance of strong loops that most killers can’t handle.
Not that I am disagreeing with your reasoning but Blight and Spirit are both very capable of going toe to toes with well coordinated SWF groups, blight is arguably better than nurse on any map that doesn't have verticality as one of its main features.
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@Crowman said:
Realistically you don't, but I had a single game where I perfectly timed avoid an Eruption proc.
https://clips.twitch.tv/ArborealNiceSmoothieKreygasm-t68BtNZJfS4Hui-9
Honestly the perk as it is, is just poorly thought out. At least Pain Res you can reasonably avoid it by letting go when the killer has picked up the survivor.
Assuming you do not have the blind status effect you can watch for the aura of the survivor being placed on the hook, as soon as you see that aura show up you can let go of the generator, then shortly after resume. You don't have to stop as soon as someone gets picked up (and sometimes letting go early can screw you over if they bring Thrilling Tremors instead of Pain Res, or if Deadlock is already activated).
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/351207/how-do-you-counter-eruption-in-solo-queue
co-op generators that been kicked. Don't go down in 30 seconds when your teammate are working on generators.
co-op+strong looping neutralizes the effectiveness of the perk.
they really should make the perk have global AoE of 6-8 meters so SWF are not getting an advantage over the perk.
How does co-oping generators that have been kicked help? Isn't that a bit risky? If your gamble doesn't pay off now you have 2 players that can't do anything instead of just 1.
If my teammates consistently were strong at looping I wouldn't want to bash my head into a wall every time I played solo queue.
So you want to make the perk stronger??
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Its clear that you didn't read the post. I went over why add-ons don't actually facilitate build diversity on most killers. And yes some killers would lose some viability but here is the neat part.. If add-ons don't exist it becomes significantly easier to balance killers abilities.
In the past killers that relied heavily on add-ons have had those add-ons added to their basekit. Wraith for example has, multiple times, had windstorm added to their basekit because they weren't viable without it. The same could be done to every killer that relies on specific add-ons.
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I am very curious to know if you feel the same way about survivors who get cucked because their teamamtes DC'd before they could activate their perks...