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You obviously didn't read the thread, Tru3Lemon
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Gonna revive my thread because I STILL see people crying about "camping", i.e. guarding hooks. It is completely within my right as killer to guard a hook. If you cannot adapt and capture gens to punish the time used to guard a hook, it is your fault. If you PREDICTABLY use altruistic strategies and attempt a hook rescue every time, it is only logical for the killer to hang around a hook because HE KNOWS YOU WILL SHOW UP.
Now, I don't guard my hooks nearly as much if I'm playing, say, the Trapper. Trapper has the ability to use his traps to passively guard the hooks for him while he goes off to damage gens and patrol.
For the Wraith? Stalking hooks while cloaked and ambushing during a hook rescue is basically what he is designed for. Survivors need to learn that if they are playing against a Wraith, he is designed to exploit altruism. Do not attempt hook rescues because he is excellent at ambushing. IT IS YOUR FAULT THAT YOU PREDICTABLY ATTEMPT HOOK RESCUES AGAINST A WRAITH
Survivors, you are being whiny, sore losers. You are not entitled to a hook rescue. Hook rescues are awarded a lot of bloodpoints for a REASON. Because hook rescues are RISKY. If you have been chased, downed, and hooked, the killer has every right to use whatever strategy at his disposal to make sure you stay there.
"What I despise and absolutely hate is if killers camp / tunnel when the game just started. Why? For the love of god, you are making this game even worse than it already is."
If you are hooked, you have essentially been eliminated. You have lost. If you are successfully rescued, great, but you are not entitled to a rescue.
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@borna_lk said:
You have the right logic and you shouldn’t care what survivors say about your play style. But you can’t say your a good killer, becuase I don’t tunnel or camp (rarely patrol) and still manage 4ks with ease. That’s called skill. Camping around a hook just makes good survivors go straight to gens and 2-3 end up escaping a long and boring game with low bloodpoints. Play however you like but don’t try and justify camping as a skill becuase the game allows you to do it. It’s your right to play how you want, but it’s my right to inform you skill requires a bit more movement.I'm sure you're a good killer, but you're missing the point. By observing how Survivors attempt a hook rescue 100% of the time and capitalizing on this fact, the Killer is being skillful. By observing the Killer guarding the hook and still attempting a predictable hook rescue, the Survivors are being unskillful. It's all in the way the game is played.
Again, I'm not claiming camping is optimal 100% of the time. I just have a problem with the way the community views it as a scummy act, when really the Killer is just doing what he has to do. A Killer can unskillfully camp by doing it with a Killer that benefits more from a Hook & Hunt playstyle, such as the Trapper.
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@Peanits said:
Not to undermine your points, but it's still a valid complaint. If you down a guy once and camp him until he's sacrificed, he's not going to have barrels of fun sitting there on the hook. You're absolutely within your rights to do so, but you still have to acknowledge that when all is said and done, you're making the game less fun for them. Sames goes for what is essentially the survivor equivalent; pallet looping. If you play in a way that makes the game less fun for the other side (even if it is within the rules), you can't be surprised if they're not happy about it.I will totally disagree about adapting and overcoming, though. There is no way for that hooked survivor to do so. The other survivors can ignore the hook and rush the generators, but that still doesn't change anything for the guy getting camped. He can't just adapt and unhook himself.
Good points. I can see how it can be annoying for a casual player, especially at lower ranks. However, the Survivor can adapt and overcome by not being hooked in the first place. The role of the survivor first and foremost is to not be detected. When a Survivor is hooked, he is essentially eliminated. Survivors are not entitled to a hook rescue, it is merely a nice bonus if it can be pulled off. Once you are hooked, if you can be rescued great, if not it's back to the lobby to try again.
As for the pallet looping, this can also be adapted to by the Killer by being mindful to optimize his chase routes and anticipate Survivor movements.
@twistedmonkey said:
While some of your points are correct in some ways you have to remember its a game played for fun, games are played in down time and some people may only have 30m a day to play, while legit its certianly not fun for the survivor and as a killer I can tell you its boring and not fun to do.Take into account this game is not just about rank, kills, escapes, imo its more about blood points, some do play for those though so I am not discounting them, its just the grind in this game is so emmense and camping rewards you with less blood points and also the one on the hook can get very little, by design its a bad play style to adopt apart from certain circumstances.
Survivors have to take some of the blame at times by not doing gens and getting out of dodge, more often than not they reward the action, this has landed at a bit of a slight fault on the devs with the emblem system, survivors need benevolent points and if a killer camps well it not only screws over the person on the hook but everyone else, this is one reason why the devs actively are looking at ways to try and stop it from happening.
Camping as a strat has its place, it is never going away and with everyone standing around the hook why would they leave? they are gifting you the kills, gates are powered again why leave? they are securing their last one, the only time I think to myself its a bit scummy is when there are 5 gens and the killer is standing next to the hook refusing to leave.
Earlier in the thread I stated that camping is not optimal for every killer 100% of the time. For example, the Trapper benefits from setting traps and leaving his hook to harass nearby generators. Another example is that camping is more optimal late-game than it is early game. Every killer has different mechanics and it is up to the player to determine the best way to play the game.
As for the "camping makes the game boring" sentiment, I still wholeheartedly disagree. Both sides, Killer and Survivor, have two different strategy paths they can follow. Killers can Camp or they can Hook & Hunt. Survivors can play Altruistically or they can be Solitary. It is a constant balancing act between both sides of the coin, and the side that plays the most tactfully and skillfully wins. I don't feel that this makes the game boring at all. I think by encouraging all playstyles, it encourages depth and makes the game more interesting.
The main problem I have is that, instead of adapting, Survivors get very hostile and toxic, and to make matters worse, this attitude is widely accepted and encouraged. I'm merely trying to re-balance the attitude of the community and remind people of the way the game is supposed to be played. Killers are supposed to guard their hook.
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@Peanits said:
Not to undermine your points, but it's still a valid complaint. If you down a guy once and camp him until he's sacrificed, he's not going to have barrels of fun sitting there on the hook. You're absolutely within your rights to do so, but you still have to acknowledge that when all is said and done, you're making the game less fun for them. Sames goes for what is essentially the survivor equivalent; pallet looping. If you play in a way that makes the game less fun for the other side (even if it is within the rules), you can't be surprised if they're not happy about it.
I will totally disagree about adapting and overcoming, though. There is no way for that hooked survivor to do so. The other survivors can ignore the hook and rush the generators, but that still doesn't change anything for the guy getting camped. He can't just adapt and unhook himself.
Good points. I can see that for some people who have a more casual approach to the game camping could be annoying, especially at low ranks. However my response to your first point is that, in my opinion, from the way I view the game mechanics, when a survivor is hooked he is essentially eliminated. A hook rescue is skillful and commendable, but nothing more than a risky bonus. The aim of the game as Survivor first and foremost is not to be detected. As for pallet looping, it can be adapted to by the Killer by optimizing his chase routes and anticipating Survivor movements. It's all in the way the game is played.
As for the second paragraph, my first point holds. When a survivor is hooked he is essentially eliminated. Survivors have no entitlement to a hook rescue. If you get rescued great, if not it's back to the lobby to try again. The player adapts by not being hooked in the first place.
@twistedmonkey said:
While some of your points are correct in some ways you have to remember its a game played for fun, games are played in down time and some people may only have 30m a day to play, while legit its certianly not fun for the survivor and as a killer I can tell you its boring and not fun to do.Take into account this game is not just about rank, kills, escapes, imo its more about blood points, some do play for those though so I am not discounting them, its just the grind in this game is so emmense and camping rewards you with less blood points and also the one on the hook can get very little, by design its a bad play style to adopt apart from certain circumstances.
Survivors have to take some of the blame at times by not doing gens and getting out of dodge, more often than not they reward the action, this has landed at a bit of a slight fault on the devs with the emblem system, survivors need benevolent points and if a killer camps well it not only screws over the person on the hook but everyone else, this is one reason why the devs actively are looking at ways to try and stop it from happening.
Camping as a strat has its place, it is never going away and with everyone standing around the hook why would they leave? they are gifting you the kills, gates are powered again why leave? they are securing their last one, the only time I think to myself its a bit scummy is when there are 5 gens and the killer is standing next to the hook refusing to leave.
As I've stated earlier in the thread, camping isn't something that's optimal 100% of the time for every killer. For instance, the Trapper benefits from setting traps and leaving his hook to harass nearby generators. Another example is that camping is more beneficial late game than it is early game. With the varied mechanics of every Killer, it is up to the player to figure out the optimal Camp/Hunt ratio at different stages of the game. What bothers me is how Survivors get very hostile and toxic about something that is actually their fault, and worse, this attitude is widely accepted and encouraged. I'm merely attempting to re-balance the community's attitude and remind people of the way the game is meant to be played.
As for the boring part, I have to disagree with both of you. I think it makes the game more interesting. By encouraging all playstyles, it encourages the full utilization of the depth of game mechanics intended by the devs. Killers Camp or Hunt, and Survivors can be Altruistic or Solitary. It's a constant balancing act between both sides, and the most skillful and tactful side wins.
Thanks for the good replies.
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You guys are getting a bit off-topic.
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I see a whole lot of trash talk but nobody who can actually formulate an intelligent rebuttal to my OP.
At least ReneAensland is capable of a civil discussion.
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@Avariku said:
fair enough, I'll give you that. But once again I think that's where some players have an issue.it's the clarification of "what is camping?" that I think gets everyone up-in-arms over it.
cause most of what we've discussed, I'm cool with, just don't stand there staring at me with your forehead pressed against mine for 2 minutes... I don't care if I die, I just want to have some fun in the process of dying. lol
That's reasonable. "Face camping" is something I never do. I'll agree with you that it's kind of scummy and not very fun to play against once you get hooked. However, I will always defend any player's right to play the game any way they want to as long as they're following the rules and not abusing glitches. EVEN if the killer decides to facecamp.
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@Avariku said:
Now THAT I can understand, camping can be situational.
like end game... if the gates are open, camp away!!! lol. I never blame a killer for camping at that point.Exactly! Now you're starting to see what I'm getting at.
Personally, when I play Wraith, I'm a HUGE camper. That's what the Wraith does. That's what he's good at and designed to do. Hook a player, cloak, then run a short distance away so you can keep a close eye on the hook and ambush anyone attempting a rescue. When playing against a Wraith, it is very advantageous of the players to adopt a selfish playstyle because altruism does not work against him.
The Trapper is supposed to surround his hook with traps in devious locations that the survivors are likely to walk. With the Trapper, I will stay in the broad vicinity of my hook, but I will let my traps do some of the work for me so I can check on the nearby generators. Altruism is very advantageous agains the Trapper because the trapper tends to leave his hooks unguarded.
Early game it's more advantageous to NOT guard hooks , and late game it's more advantageous to closely guard hooks in order to ensure kills.
There are many different combinations and variations to these playstyles and that is what makes DBD great; the endless possibility. You seem to have a very Hook & Hunt-oriented playstyle that has been working out for you and that's awesome. Discouraging any one playstyle in the community can only DETRACT from the game.
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@Avariku said:
I main Amanda as well and...For example, guarding a hook is VERY disadvantageous to the Trapper because his traps allow him to remotely guard a hook while he leaves the hook to harrass Survivors. However, guarding a hook is a big ADVANTAGE to the Wraith because his specialty is stealth and ambush. It just depends on which Killer the player is using and how many generators have been captured.
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@Avariku said:
I main Amanda as well...The thing is, I don't see where you make the differentiation between "hard patrolling" and "camping".
Also, I don't see any one playstyle as taking away from the game or wasting anybody's time. What the different playstyles do is promote two different main playstyles on both sides of the coin. I think anything that promotes more diversity of playstyle only CONTRIBUTES to the game.
Killers:
Guarding the hook ensures a kill but allows Survivors to complete objectives. Hooking & Hunting prevents the Survivors from completing objectives but it's almost guaranteed someone will rescue. It is up to the player to determine which playstyle is more effective with which killer and at what stage of the game.
Survivors:
Playing altruistically and working together has huge advantages, but the main disadvantage to Altruistic play is that it's predictable. Playing a Solitary survivor is disadvantageous because you're screwed if you get discovered, but it makes the Survivor much more unpredictable and hard to find. Survivors are not REQUIRED to rescue others from a hook and they are not ENTITLED to a hook rescue. This is the way the game is designed.
The only thing that discouraging a certain playstyle will accomplish in DBD is to detract from gameplay, no matter how much you dislike a certain playstyle.
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@ReneAensland said:
I'm disagreeing now.
It's not hook guarding. It's camping.
Everyone has their opinion, mine is obviously "Any killer that camps, is trash."
Apparently, Amanda is a low class killer, and I don't camp and get my Merciless.
If I can do it, you can do it.I realize you take pride in your Killer game and you seem like a pretty good killer. Obviously what you've been doing has been working out for you. But you aren't considering the full depth of mechanics that DBD offers. There is no "camping" in this game. This is not a shooter like COD or Counterstrike.
By hooking a Survivor, the Killer is presented with two different options: Guard the hook or hook and move on. This is what was intended by the Devs. Either choice the Killer makes has its advantages and disadvantages. There is nothing wrong with Guard or Hook & Hunt, and that is the way the game is intended to be played.
The pride you have in your Killer game does not make the way others play the game any more or less valid.
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@Avariku said:
the only thing I have to say to this is that while I'm about 60/40 as a "killer main" ... Even as a survivor I have NO issue with patrols... hell, that just makes sense... the problem I have is with killers who decide their first victim has no right to play the game at all for the duration of the round.and yet, the community seems to expect that person should now dangle from the hook for 2 minutes of absolute boredom or completely screw the remaining survivors over.
just seems like a bad game mechanic to me.
I have to respectfully disagree. If a killer makes a hook, he's made a hook. It's up to the survivors to weigh the risk/reward of attempting a hook rescue. If the Killer decides he wants to make the time investment of closely guarding his hook, then that is his choice. However, it leaves the Killer vulnerable because it gives the Survivors a chance to complete objectives without being chased.
It promotes two main playstyles: Hook Guarding or Hooking and Hunting. One playstyle ensures kills, while the other prevents Survivors from completeing objectives yet leaves the hook vulnerable to a Rescue.
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That's a nice video. You did well in that game. But you still aren't replying constructively to the topic at hand.
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No one influences how I play, I'm a hunter not a camper.
I do not need to explain why camping is pathetic. You're waiting, for someone to walk by, to get a free grab, or a free kill.
Might as well play Call of Duty, or why not bring a tent for that camping.Yes, you do need to explain. You're replying to my thread without even actually replying to the OP. Do you have any constructive rebuttals that involve reason instead of insults?
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@ReneAensland said:
@Laddy said:
@ReneAensland said:
You can try to justify your camping all you want but,
If you camp, you're [BAD WORD] trash.Exactly the type of snarky attitude that most survivors have. Nothing you said was a constructive rebuttal of my OP. Deep down you know I'm right.
I'm not a survivor.
I. Am. Not. A. Survivor.
I'm a killer, I'm a casual survivor.I'm a Killer main.
Then you have been letting the opinions of others sway the way you play your game. I still have not heard a constructive rebuttal to my OP.
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@ReneAensland said:
You can try to justify your camping all you want but,
If you camp, you're [BAD WORD] trash.Exactly the type of snarky attitude that most survivors have. Nothing you said was a constructive rebuttal of my OP. Deep down you know I'm right.