Katana314
Katana314
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- Katana314
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I just posted a bug around my Ivory ("only one") mori allowing a second kill against bots. Seems this could be related.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/446526/ptb-ivory-mori-allowing-multikills-possibly-custom-only#latest
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I've been playing a lot of killer recently. I wouldn't necessarily say that DH is overpowered, but I kind of start to get the hate. To be clear, I at least recognize that as a survivor, it can actually be a lot of fun - even if that fun is at the killer's expense a little bit.
I recognize that things like Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, or even BBQ/Chili's auras, are built in to discourage un-fun behavior; negating the rewards for a killer that just crutches on following the unhookers. I can even say perks like Unbreakable and Circle of Healing are designed to reward/punish certain behaviors. Unbreakable punishes too much reliance on slugging, while COH punishes killers that don't search for the totems at all (not that I think COH is balanced in its current state - I at least recognize the *idea*). While other exhaustion perks reward finding parts of the map to use as obstacles, Dead Hard kind of rewards you for doing little to nothing. (I haven't played with/against Overcome enough to decide on its end, though). It leads to all killers having to wait out the Dead Hard anytime they're trying to attack someone that's injured.
To reiterate though, Dead Hard CAN be fun on survivors. So if it's to be kept there, and I think it should be, then I'd like to come up with a way of treating it as a reward for good play, or a punishment for bad killer decisions - not a crutch that makes you more effective for free.
So, my idea for Dead Hard would be actually not quite a nerf - it would be a BUFF in particular situations - situations that I'm thinking a lot of people agree the killer should avoid.
When you are in a chase with the killer, Dead Hard begins charging. It takes 40 seconds to charge. When Dead Hard is fully charged, and when you are not Exhausted, press E to dash forward yada yada. (You do NOT become exhausted in doing so). Anytime you are out of chase with the killer, Dead Hard steadily loses charge.
The idea here is to punish killers that just go after one survivor and do not switch targets. It rewards the play of a survivor that can loop the killer continuously, and it also makes Dead Hard more predictable. You may still have situations where you're forced into a long chase with someone, and must "bait out the dead hard" when you finally catch them at a dead zone. But, if you've come at them when they don't expect you, and the chase has only been 10 seconds, you know for a fact that they don't have Dead Hard.
This also means that if a killer goes only after ONE PERSON the whole game (the Twitch streamer, doy) then that person's successful looping gives them a better survival chance - that 40 seconds will keep recharging as long as the chase continues. If that killer can't shorten chases with their power, or predict the Dead Hard, even with Bloodlust, they'll never catch them.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Anything that stops or slows the hook timer based off killer proximity to the hook just straight up doesn't work because it can be abused by survivors, eg. "chase me near the hook so the guy on hook doesn't die or you have to drop the chase and let me unhook for free".
I don't...really understand what this means.
If I am killer, and someone is a meter away going for an unhook, I just hit them. It's free pressure on two people - even if the timer's paused, it's someone not doing generators. It's also easy to provide an exception for the hook timer pause if the killer is in chase - rewarding the killer for actively stopping a person they can see from unhooking, but not for trying to act preventatively as a guard.
I'll be perfectly honest - when I know the objectives in a map are centered in one place, I certainly proxy camp to a degree - usually aiming for the rescuers, rather than the victims. But even I think there are good ways to counter the more toxic side of camp/tunneling. I get dubious anytime someone makes these claims about the previous PTB, almost as though it was at a time when the killer strategy book wasn't as deep.
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I mean, whatever else you may believe, sitting on a hook or on the ground all game doesn't teach a survivor anything about how to play. I agree that a really good team can punish hook camping, but you have to build game mechanics that encourage the playstyle you want. It's not just about balance, and it's not necessarily just about the high ranks.
I'm actually suggesting this mainly as a killer player. I used to think Barbecue and Chili was overpowered but I realized one of the best things about it was it got killers moving away from the hook. More innovative solutions like that are exactly what we need.
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I am actually surprised that more people don't locker against CI. When I use it on Oni (I don't have many gen slowing perks) I can usually catch someone wandering out in the open looking for a different generator. I used to think the good principle would be to only check the available generators, but I do find myself being rewarded checking the disabled area. Maybe that will change if more people become strategic about reacting to it.
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One time in early ranks; I knew the game pretty well from many survivor matches, but had to progress through the really simple ranks. Some early survivors try to fast-enter lockers in the hopes that I won't figure it out (scratch marks, noise, etc). One time when such a person (who had already been hooked) did this, I walked into the room, and then veeerrrry slowwwly rotated to face the locker. Then I just kept going.
Of course, that mindgame is going to change with Distraction.
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I really do think the two-floor maps need adjustments to game mechanics so that the radius effects are more "pill-shaped" rather than sphere-shaped. Strategy-wise, being on the second floor is very far from the first floor, so it shouldn't be easy pressure going through a ceiling. It also makes the terror radius kind of useless information. That said, that's not going to suddenly make Midwich a good map. As dumb as it sounds for a horror theme, that place needs signposts; for both sides.
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I generally agree with a lot of these being issues; in many cases not "strategically overall" (eg, tournament rules, people won't bother running Borrowed Time because camping the hook isn't a good strategy), but for the sake of player fun. When I was low ranks, I would always run BT because killers would just wander around and the unhook would be their next clue.
I think on solution 1 and 2, you run into complexity issues. Even if the propositions are balanced, it's hard to identify them to players, since they would mainly affect newer ones.
I kind of like your ideas on 4 and 5; although one thing to consider is that generally speaking, I don't think anyone should ever feel this game is "perfectly balanced". Keys and moris do feel a tiny bit cheap, but can also be fun to successfully counter in some way. I at first wasn't sure about giving hatches an unlocking process, but if there's still 2+ survivors around then theoretically someone could distract. The only time I'd disagree with that is if it's only one person and they're reopening the hatch after the killer has closed it.
1/2/6 all seem to touch on a very core issue to the game's design; that much as the game wants the killer to leave the hook, there's plenty of reason not to. I've been playing a little bit of Resident Evil: Resistance (I don't know why people compared that game to Dead by Daylight) and their solution for things like one person being isolated/tunneled (a fair strategy there) is that that person respawns from death, only reducing the overall Lose Timer by about 1:30. That's a lot of time, but the survivors can make it back if the three others are doing objectives. It basically means one survivor functions as Tank, successfully drawing the Mastermind's time. The teams both succeed/fail as one.
I could potentially see a weird gamemode to DBD where the survivors are all on a single timer of some sort, like the Endgame Collapse - and hook states simply cause the whole team to collectively lose progress on that timer. To keep it close, it could add time when generators complete or an exit gate opens. In that situation, being camped on the hook so long would be uninteresting for that survivor, but basically guarantee a survivor win.
That's probably not gonna happen, but I'm trying to think of ideas to overall reduce hook camping that aren't complicated for newbies. A simpler one could be: When the killer is within 20 meters of the hook, and no survivors are in that area, that survivor does not lose "hook health" - meaning survivors could do all 5 gens while a bubba is camping and the hookee would still be on first hook. The game's UI intentionally stutters the normal progress of hook health so that it's difficult for killers to use this as a proximity hint. This, unfortunately, doesn't resolve the overall issue for Deathslinger in particular unless survivors get very good at blocking the chain.