The Plague is LACKING in POWER (Reasoning and Justification)
Hello fog travelers, I have gathered enough information to have a few concerns about the newest killer, namely, The Plague. However, don't worry, she only needs a few changes to make her more viable as a slow down killer but before we get to the solutions, what's the problem?
PROBLEM:
1.) Infected survivors aren't encouraged to cure themselves if they are just good at looping you.
2.) The insta-heal from the fountains completely throw out her role as a slow down killer.
GREAT EXPLANATION BY @HatCreature
"I can't believe everyone in this thread doesn't understand, Plague Has No Map Pressure.
You're Broken, so what? Yeah the Killer got an instadown IF SHE CATCHES YOU, you Red Rank looper champion. But you got a Gen done because you didn't care about being sick and because you didn't instaheal yourself at a fountain she can't get her upgrade.
She can't infect multiple people for very long at all, infect 3 people at 1 Gen and chase 1 of them, the other 2 find fountains instantly and heal then go back to the Gen while you waste time chasing. Or maybe they don't heal themselves and just do the Gen, ''so what I'm injured, I've faced Legion I know what to do''.
The only real strength she has is if she has Corrupted Purge and is guarding her hook, she'll hurt everyone trying to save with her vomit. Yes there are other scenarios but it's dependent on if Survivors feel like they need to cleanse themselves which they don't need to or want to."
ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:
1.) Remember, we have a meta that involves not healing yourself while rushing the generators as fast as possible. Therefore, since there is no incentive to cure yourself from the infection, survivors will stay broken (injured) while doing generators as fast as possible. Broken doesn't mean anything if the killer can't hit you so why cure yourself and give the killer their power upgrade? This is a problem because this killer is supposed to slow the game down while feeding from their corrupted fountains but she can't do both since they aren't curing themselves.
2.) This is unnecessary but I can understand why they added this because you can easily get broken from the infection. However, this also takes away possible time survivors could be wasting which is the killer's main role, waste time.
THE SOLUTIONS:
1.) Increase how long it takes to become fully infected by the plague but whenever survivors are fully infected, they will suffer a 50% or 25% action penalty. This will encourage the killer to spread the plague around to slow the game down and it gives survivors an incentive to cure themselves because they cannot rush generators as fast.
2.) Keep the insta-heal but increase the cure time so survivors will have to be careful when attempting to remove the plague as they are broken. Additionally, removing the fountain auras until the survivor is fully infected will also have a great effect since it will ensure more fully infected survivors will attempt to cure themselves. Make the survivor work for the insta-heal by making sure they are safe when they go for it.
COMPENSATION:
If these changes are too OP, we can always decrease her Corrupted Purge duration or increase how long it takes to become fully infected. Additionally, we may not need all of my changes that I've listed above so don't assume that I'm saying WE NEED ALL OF THESE CHANGES, we might need one of them to make her viable.
Civilized feedback is welcomed!
Comments
Yes, the legion playstyle. I thought the community agreed on how bad of a design he was.
But sadly thats the only viable way of playing her, because of the stupid insta heal fountains. You need to tunnel the survivor until he is down or he can insta heal up for free.
Removing the insta heal from fountains offers different ways to play the plague
A big flaw from what I've seen is the debuff when used with thana/dying light. Why not keep the 25-50% penalty, but make it non-stackable?
Take thanathobia, there your reason to heal. I mean... wow really? I have watched streams and videos of the new killer and people are not having the issues you are complaining about. Sooo... get gud?
You're not getting the point, why heal when you can rush generators? Why cure yourself when you can still rush generators while sick and deny the killer her upgrade?
By the way, saying git gud is so childish and isn't bring any constructive feedback.
not every loop is a loop u can see over. if you're having problems getting looped, cut corners using strafe keys, throw on enduring and spirit fury (super dangerous on her btw due to applying broken so easily) and learn how to run structures.
https://youtu.be/t8u0jRxN2kQ
https://youtu.be/cINxMNYqC3EDo you know how tall she is? Survivors can see you through most loops and they control (as proven in your video and what I been trying to say to everyone) your Corrupted Purge. This means they can stay injured as long as they want if they are confident in their looping skills and waste your time.
Look at @HatCreature said
Legion does the same thing, he has infinite EWIII since his power injures survivors so easily. Therefore, is the Legion's power justified because every survivor is injured and they can still loop him? Because he has to tunnel survivors to down them? Because he has to stab multiple times to earn a down? Sure you can say that Plague has only one stab and you're down but she's very easy to see during a loop and she can't jump pallets.
Regular vomit can't down.
For the same reason no mether is a stupid perk. I would like to avoid one hit downs. With thanephobia would reinforce healing due to the penalty. So are you saying people don't heal aginst the cannibal or hillbilly since they can ne one shotted with the chainsaw? Or aginst the shape because their three is insta down? Also while wounded survivors make noise and drop blood which any good killer will use to find them. Gen rushing or not (which the whole gen rushing is what they are supposed to do, either survivors get blasted for gen rushing or not doing their objective.) A smart survivor is not going to want to stay in a wounded status for to long.
I still don't think you are getting the point either.
Answer the question of why do some survivors not want to heal?
You will probably find the answer is because you either stay weakened and easier to down or make her stronger for a time and be able to down you or someone easier, it's an option where you make yourself weaker regardless.
Its the mechanic that causes this and making you need to always go to a fountain is bad design, the choice needs to remain or it becomes another tedious mechanic just like the legion.
How fun would it be for a game to play out as Found, chased, puked on, goto fountain, do gens rinse and repeat each and everytime, it makes it a very linear gameplay experience.
The only time healing is worth while is if you can gain more time from it. If you heal against a legion and he finds you, that 32 seconds is wasted on something that could've better been used on generators because he can easily injure you with Frenzy. While on the other hand, healing against a Myers is worth while because he may not have his EWIII to insta-down you.
I do understand your point, we don't want to force survivors down a single path since it can get tedious. However, what I'm saying to you is that, when you are sick you have two choices: Cure yourself or don't cure yourself. Curing yourself gives the killer her upgrade while not curing yourself makes you weak but gives you time to work on generators. With the legion and sloppy butcher killers, we often pick the choice to stay weak and rush generators because it's the most efficient strategy. Now, against the Plague, that choice in staying broken is now more enticing because you are also denying the killer her power upgrade. Staying sick needs a punishment of some sort, preferably a action decrease but just so you not forced to cure yourself immediately, becoming fully sick should take longer. This will still give the survivor a choice on WHEN they should cure themselves.
I agree with every point you made.
Also, people can't realize but survivors can not control other survivors' decisions. Yes, I might find it easier to loop a 115% ms basic attack killer but another survivor may not and want to heal themselves with a fountain.
Also there is a fact that some survivors are terrible at looping but good at hiding so instead of worrying about the plague getting her power up, they worry about the sickness that makes them loud. For them, the plague with upgraded power is not powerful since they can easily hide but basic sickness takes their ability to stealth around.
Now, as a survivor, I am injured and the killer has her own power that can 1 shot down me because of one of my teammates' decision to heal themselves.
It is a very interesting killer and still to early to rush for buffs or nerfs imo.
After playing her, breathing her and watching variety of diff streams as far as i'm concerned is she is strong and in a good place. Once people actually learn how to play her effectively she will be mid/top tier for sure and as a survivor main im happy with that.
Just to see if I can get some answers to clear up my confusion, does the corrupt purge down by itself? or do you have to have add ons? Is losing the broken status effect when getting hooked a visual glitch? Or is it intentional (if it is I find it pretty stupid considering that is the main punishment of being infected)?
Corrupted Purge will down survivors with and without add-ons. No, for some reason the infection reverses itself when hooked.
Thats why I said the issue is with her power, the fact you can make her stronger for a time is why it's a choice and should stay that way.
You cannot punish someone and then think it's giving them a choice as it actually removes that choice and makes it a must do second objective, you would be forcing the usage of that extra power, if you HAVE to cure yourself there is no choice it becomes a matter of when not if.
There are already numerous perks to slow action speed, adding this onto the base kit for a killer who can hit multiple survivors at once isn't a great idea, it can easily become a very slow tedious game which no one wants to play in, a legion 2.0.
Think about it another way, it's the self care nerf a lot of people asked for, she is a one hit down killer in the scenario where they don't heal.
while i do agree that she could get buffed, i do not believe she is a bad killer.
i mean, yeah, the power is not that threatening, however the heavily limited FoV combined with being instantly down, not being able to heal and making loud sounds all the time is reason enough for a survivor to cleanse his sickness, otherwise they might end up getting ambushed out of nowhere.
also, thanks to the decreased FoV a survivor has, mindgames become a lot harder for them, allowing you to outplay and insta down them easier than other killers can.
besides that, i do agree that she is lacking map pressure, which is a big problem a lot of killers suffer from.
now, what would you say about this buff idea:
when fully infected (stage 2), you will have to puke at random times. while puking you will not be able to perform any action (dropping a pallet, vaulting, repairing). also, you will infect any object (gen, locker, window, pallet) or person that is directly in front of you. have add ons increase the chance to puke.
that way you could gain some use out of the sickness during a chase and also force them to cleanse the sickness, otherwise they would take longer to get stuff done and infect the rest of the team.
just a quick idea of mine...
So i wonder what is point to hook survavior then voim on them ?If i vomit on surv on hook he just run to shrine and insta heal.If i don't vomit on him he must heal him self or somone must heal him.And one last thing if status broken is take away when i hook surv he don't infect any one who take him from hook so what is the point to puke on them any way?!To make killer more easy in chase if chase take too much time to you?!
now you're making it sound like u can't dictate a chase because u can see her through every loop. you can't. there are just a few more loops you can see her over due to her height, same with huntress and myers. and we weren't speaking of her corrupt purge thats an entirely different problem. I can agree she has trouble controlling the game because she needs to go out of her way to get her corrupt.
Legion is 110% and without add-ons, he struggles even through survivors remain injured against him. Plague is the same thing but she's just a little faster than Legion because she can't jump pallets. Therefore, what's preventing me from rushing generators while sick? She can't down me if she can't catch me, I'm ok at looping and I can stall the killer for a good minute broken. It's the same thing with Legion, that's what I'm trying to tell you. At least with Pig, you can't really rush generators when you're trapped.
So, it looks like I was right after all about her. Just like last time, albeit not as bad as Legion, she's just a mid-tier killer.
yep you was right she needs to have a massive negative added to her infection to force survivors to cleanse. right now, if i get into a match with plague and I see some one cleansing and powering her up if they get hooked. i don't save them best to let them die and go short handed.
She's a bad killer who doesn't even have the luxury of stall through people healing. She literally just enforces not healing and doing gens.
I personally haven’t tried her yet, saving up shards, gunna be a while. She seems fun but it sounds like she might be in legion territory.
What if a sick survivor vomits like normal while idle, but now also while working on a gen, blowing the gen and infecting the generator as if plague had infected it? This could work with pallets if they throw up while running by or passing over them too.
Honestly, I don't think an aura would be necessary because the action penalty makes you try to spread the Plague around and encourages survivors cleanse just before they break. Therefore, if you see a rank 1 looper champion, just vomit and walk away. If he does generators, he'll eventually get sick and will have to cleanse themselves. Same thing with other survivors who are good at looping and before y'all say 50% or 25% is OP. Freddy's power does the exact same thing but it's INSTANT debuff after 7 seconds.