So I might of figured out why both sides are frustrated. Idk how to fix it though.

The thing that is making the game frustrating for both sides is game speed. The game is insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. For most killers especially older ones that are slow the game is too fast thus causing these killers to slug and tunnel survivors to slow down the game thus causing survivors to be frustrated. Also the games are insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. Idk any suggestions to fix it and as much as the obvious is to slow it down that would just cause frustration on the survivors end. What do you all think?

Comments

  • @DarkStrife said:

    The thing that is making the game frustrating for both sides is game speed. The game is insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. For most killers especially older ones that are slow the game is too fast thus causing these killers to slug and tunnel survivors to slow down the game thus causing survivors to be frustrated. Also the games are insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. Idk any suggestions to fix it and as much as the obvious is to slow it down that would just cause frustration on the survivors end. What do you all think?

    games are fast compared to 5 years ago because survivors get better over time on top of killer perks nerfs and nerfing killers in general stack this on top of new survivor perks and basekit survivor buffs makes it different

  • @ForTheEntity said:

    @crogers271

    The first paragraph doesn't really respond to anything. Something being a mix of wins and losses goes hand in hand with the idea of both sides having a chance to win. If anything, tunneling works against that rationale as a killer who tunnels takes it out of the hands of most of the survivors and puts it solely in the hands of the tunneled target.

    I'm all for both sides having a chance to win which is one of the reasons I really want them to address tunneling.

    The 'every match' is difficult given the extreme randomness of match ups that exist in DbD, which is a deeper topic than this thread.

    Well sometimes tunneling is a comeback mechanic for killers, so it's a nuanced problem, making tunneling a very hard problem to address. Hence the massive grey area I mentioned earlier.

    There's a reason keeping new survivors around has been difficult, and tunneling is one of the primary reasons.

    This isn't anything new. DbD has always had a player retention problem. New players join with new licenses and leave when the novelty and/or cakes run out. Who's to say tunneling is more to blame now than any of the other multitude of problems this game has.

    I'm not really sure what we're discussing here anymore.

    I'm not really sure what we're discussing here anymore.

    Whether dealing with tunneling is somehow a nuanced issue or not. The arguments put forward that its tricky don't hold up, its no more tricky than anything else in game design (which, by its nature, isn't easy, but that's true of every game element).

    1: The idea that tunneling is 'necessary' for some killers or situations is true for every change that's ever been made on both sides. A longer DS could easily be justified if we just talk about S Tier killers, the old gen kick era can be justified if we limit the discussion to D tier killers, etc.

    2: The concept of a comeback mechanic brings up 'what's the comeback mechanic for survivors' other than just 'play better'. If the killer has it, why not survivors? If the answer is both sides should have it, okay, let's go back to the gen boost for three survivors from a year ago (which is also anti-tunnel in its own way because an anti-tunnel would frequently be a comeback mechanic). If the answer is 'the killer should have this and not the survivors because the killer should be stronger', then sure, that's a subjective opinion on game design and each person would have a different take, but as long as we're up front about it.

    3: The concept of solve by perks then brings up the idea of why is this a focus on the survivor side, but not the killer. We could treat the sides the same and say playing a weaker killer is like playing with off meta perks, you're doing it for fun / a challenge.

    4: The idea on where to draw the line is the same thing any balancing discussion has. At what point is Pain Res too strong/too weak, when is DH too strong or too weak, etc. One of the problems with the anti-tunnel discussions last year is many people treated it as a 'if I trigger this, I lose the game' instead of treating it like any other balancing discussion.

    Basically, there's nothing unique about tunneling.

    If you don't think it leads to bad games, then that a difference of opinion on what makes a 'fun' game, no different than disagreements on whether survivors who go for sabo and flashlight saves in abundance make for a better or worse game.

    If it leads to bad games, its a problem and should be fixed. There's no reason that its any different than any other problem or improvement the game has done before, but people try to 'logic' the argument as if its somehow unique.

  • What's wrong with the game is it's just really unforgiving for casual players, and the community belittles and scares away anyone who is having a tough time.

    I don't think any kind of chat well or information will help that for solo Q, or the information to tell you how a killer works, if you make a mistake in DBD it usually costs a whole match on both sides against competent players.

  • I'd like those changes…

    Survivor - every time they are unhooked they no longer have endurance or haste but elusive and invincibility. Meaning that they can't be down in those 20s and will be much harder to track as well as able to getaway from the hook. This will make it so they can't bodyblock anymore while base antitunnel would be more meaningfull. This may work in endgame as survivors would no longer be able to weaponize it by bodyblocking.

    Killer - every time you perform fresh hook - so minimum you have to go for 2 different survivors, you gain extra BP, extra 5-10% damage when damaging a gen and aura reveal on all survivors with least hook stages out of 32m. This would hardly reward switching targets and make non-tunneling more benefitial than tunneling. This might be disabled if any survivor is dead before 4th hook.

    Healthy changes for both sides that would make the game much more enjoyable for both sides.

  • @DarkStrife said:

    The thing that is making the game frustrating for both sides is game speed. The game is insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. For most killers especially older ones that are slow the game is too fast thus causing these killers to slug and tunnel survivors to slow down the game thus causing survivors to be frustrated. Also the games are insanely fast compared to 5 years ago. Idk any suggestions to fix it and as much as the obvious is to slow it down that would just cause frustration on the survivors end. What do you all think?

    Now to your point. This is not true. 5 years ago, killers were not that strong, there were a very few gen perks and in mostly weaker form - fe. surge had cooldown and less range, dead mans switch activated straight after hooking etc. Some perks were nerfed for sure. But overall killer lethality was much lower and slowdown was way smaller. There were old 25 % insta BNP, instaheals, endurance in medkit, dash deadhard, same 3 types of loops, bigger maps etc. I'm not saying the game is in ok spot atm. But defienetly not worse than it used to be. Infinite windows etc.

    I'd say game become more competitive which you can't see in constant complain about perks. Fun and strong perks are getting quickly nerfed and I would only imagine what would happen if perks like pain resonance, lucky break, power struggle or iron will would be released nowadays in it's current form. No one wants any new meta, no one wants big changes. Just stale game for about last 5-6 years.

  • @Anniehere said:

    Perks are what cause frustration the most, in my opinion. They're the main cause of my most miserable games anyway.

    that appears to be because rather than actually fixing negative game design choices like Hard Tunneling STILL being viable after all this time as well as camping slugged survivors, etc they are "Fixing" things with perks that don't actually fix them they just empower the problem in the long run

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