How would perks changes look like so we are not stucked in same stale meta

Elan

Clairvoyance

OLD

Each time you cleanse or bless a totem you can while empty handed see auras of hooks, gens, exit gates and hatch.

NEW

Each time you cleanse or bless a totem, empower your team by mapwide auras while empty handed allowing them to see auras of pallets, gens, exit gates, windows, chests and totems.

Detective's Hunch

Much the same, works for team.

No Quarter

OLD

Whenever 70 % self-healing progress is achieved while in terror radius you receive continous skillchecks, failing them result in 30s broken.

NEW

Whenever you achieve 50 % healing progress you get continuous skillchecks. If failed, your bar will be reset and you suffer 30s broken.

The nerfs shouldn't be too hard either lets say

Hyperfocus

OLD

While repairing gen for each great skill check you get 30 % more progress and skillcheck triggers faster and more often.

New, shares the same but inflicts oblivious while working on gen. Whenever you miss skillcheck the perk goes on 10s cooldown.

Pain resonance

OLD

For every first hook most progressed generator loses 20 % progress, when survivor is hooked.

New

When survivor is hooked on a scourge hook, every non-repaired gen will start regressing at 300 % for as long as survivor remains on hook.

GentlemanFridge

The issue tends to be that, to cause a meta shake-up, the meta needs to, be, well, shaken up.

That means either the meta needs nerfs, which will be met with resistance, or other perks need to be buffed, which will be met with resistance.

Or new perks need to trump the meta, which… you get my point.

Elan

@GentlemanFridge said:

The issue tends to be that, to cause a meta shake-up, the meta needs to, be, well, shaken up.

That means either the meta needs nerfs, which will be met with resistance, or other perks need to be buffed, which will be met with resistance.

Or new perks need to trump the meta, which… you get my point.

But that's the point surely. Killers only get Henry's perks that manage to enter the meta. While survivors also had a a little contenders. Five moves ahead are decent, lend a hand is cool. But otherwise truly nothing crazy. I believe every perk should be a viable pick rather than a nieche or meme. Whispers, let's say… if they make it so it every 30s reveals auras in your TR it would be way better.

GentlemanFridge

@Elan said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4104249#Comment_4104249

But that's the point surely. Killers only get Henry's perks that manage to enter the meta. While survivors also had a a little contenders. Five moves ahead are decent, lend a hand is cool. But otherwise truly nothing crazy. I believe every perk should be a viable pick rather than a nieche or meme. Whispers, let's say… if they make it so it every 30s reveals auras in your TR it would be way better.

My point is that while the idea might be good, seeing it go past the community’s sometimes overzealous scrutiny is something of a feat of its own these days.

terumisan

@Elan said:

Clairvoyance

OLD

Each time you cleanse or bless a totem you can while empty handed see auras of hooks, gens, exit gates and hatch.

NEW

Each time you cleanse or bless a totem, empower your team by mapwide auras while empty handed allowing them to see auras of pallets, gens, exit gates, windows, chests and totems.

Detective's Hunch

Much the same, works for team.

No Quarter

OLD

Whenever 70 % self-healing progress is achieved while in terror radius you receive continous skillchecks, failing them result in 30s broken.

NEW

Whenever you achieve 50 % healing progress you get continuous skillchecks. If failed, your bar will be reset and you suffer 30s broken.

The nerfs shouldn't be too hard either lets say

Hyperfocus

OLD

While repairing gen for each great skill check you get 30 % more progress and skillcheck triggers faster and more often.

New, shares the same but inflicts oblivious while working on gen. Whenever you miss skillcheck the perk goes on 10s cooldown.

Pain resonance

OLD

For every first hook most progressed generator loses 20 % progress, when survivor is hooked.

New

When survivor is hooked on a scourge hook, every non-repaired gen will start regressing at 300 % for as long as survivor remains on hook.

that's a pretty big nerf for pain res i thought the change would have been it hits all gens but nerf the amoubt

esarraf

One of the best ways to change the meta would be to release perks that actually counter the meta. Like if say steadfast protected all generators in it's range from any non kick regression events instead of the nothing it does now that would not only not be too strong but it'd also make killers have to think before slapping on four regression perks.

GoodBoyKaru

I've literally just done a post on how I'd change Boons to make them more relevant again, but there are a couple more changes I'd make (not talking about the perks already receiving changes, as I'd like to see how they settle in the meta first).

Pain Resonance:

• Begin the Trial with 4 Tokens. Whenever a Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, consume 1 Token to cause the Generator with the most progress to Explode, lose 11%/13%/15% progress, and begin regressing.
  • Reduced total damage to 15%.
  • Removed requirement to unique hook to activate; now the first 4 hooks on a scourge hook trigger this perk
• Once all Survivors have been Unique Hooked, if all Survivors remain alive, replenish this Perk's Token count. This effect can be triggered once per trial.
  • New effect.

Lithe:

• Press the Activate Ability 1 Button while running, not exhausted, and by a Window to perform a Rushed Vault, after which you gain 50% Haste for 2 seconds.
  • Reduced haste from 3s to 2s
  • In-turn, made it trigger-able, instead of being activated the first time a vault is performed
• This grants Exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.

Finesse:

• Perform fast-vaults 20% quicker.
  • Removed injured requirement.
• 40s/35s/30s cooldown.

Shoulder the Burden:

• Now grants Exposed permanently until having been put into the Dying State by a Killer 3/2/1 time(s).
  • Instead of being exposed for 60/50/40s, this is now permanent until damaged by the killer, applying more pressure on the survivor who uses this perk and removing its synergy with vigil outright.

Specialist:

• Whenever you rummage or unlock a Chest or cleanse or bless a Totem, gain 1 Token, up to a maximum of 6.
  • Added the condition of cleansing or booning totems.
• While repairing a generator, hitting a great Skill Check spends all Tokens.
• For each Token spent, the Generator gains 2/3/4 Permanent Charges
  • Changed the effect from reducing overall charges needed to granting charges which cannot be regressed, but which leaves the generator at requiring 90 charges to complete.

Fast-Track

• Unhooking another Survivor grants 1 Token, up to a maximum of 1/2/3.
• While repairing, hitting a great Skill Check spends all Tokens.
• For each Token spent, the Generator gains 5 Permanent Charges.
  • Same deal as Specialist above.

Unrelated to perks, I'd also add back BBQ's old BP bonus but as a permanent incentive to unique hook:

• Whenever you perform a Unique Hook, increase the bloodpoints earned at the end of the Trial by 25%, up to a maximum of 300%.
• Hooking the same Survivor twice in a row, without downing another Survivor in that time, reduces this bonus by 25%.
• This bonus cannot go below 0%.

Elan

@GoodBoyKaru said:

I've literally just done a post on how I'd change Boons to make them more relevant again, but there are a couple more changes I'd make (not talking about the perks already receiving changes, as I'd like to see how they settle in the meta first).

Pain Resonance:

• Begin the Trial with 4 Tokens. Whenever a Survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, consume 1 Token to cause the Generator with the most progress to Explode, lose 11%/13%/15% progress, and begin regressing.
  • Reduced total damage to 15%.
  • Removed requirement to unique hook to activate; now the first 4 hooks on a scourge hook trigger this perk
• Once all Survivors have been Unique Hooked, if all Survivors remain alive, replenish this Perk's Token count. This effect can be triggered once per trial.
  • New effect.

Lithe:

• Press the Activate Ability 1 Button while running, not exhausted, and by a Window to perform a Rushed Vault, after which you gain 50% Haste for 2 seconds.
  • Reduced haste from 3s to 2s
  • In-turn, made it trigger-able, instead of being activated the first time a vault is performed
• This grants Exhaustion for 60/50/40 seconds.

Finesse:

• Perform fast-vaults 20% quicker.
  • Removed injured requirement.
• 40s/35s/30s cooldown.

Shoulder the Burden:

• Now grants Exposed permanently until having been put into the Dying State by a Killer 3/2/1 time(s).
  • Instead of being exposed for 60/50/40s, this is now permanent until damaged by the killer, applying more pressure on the survivor who uses this perk and removing its synergy with vigil outright.

Specialist:

• Whenever you rummage or unlock a Chest or cleanse or bless a Totem, gain 1 Token, up to a maximum of 6.
  • Added the condition of cleansing or booning totems.
• While repairing a generator, hitting a great Skill Check spends all Tokens.
• For each Token spent, the Generator gains 2/3/4 Permanent Charges
  • Changed the effect from reducing overall charges needed to granting charges which cannot be regressed, but which leaves the generator at requiring 90 charges to complete.

Fast-Track

• Unhooking another Survivor grants 1 Token, up to a maximum of 1/2/3.
• While repairing, hitting a great Skill Check spends all Tokens.
• For each Token spent, the Generator gains 5 Permanent Charges.
  • Same deal as Specialist above.

Unrelated to perks, I'd also add back BBQ's old BP bonus but as a permanent incentive to unique hook:

• Whenever you perform a Unique Hook, increase the bloodpoints earned at the end of the Trial by 25%, up to a maximum of 300%.
• Hooking the same Survivor twice in a row, without downing another Survivor in that time, reduces this bonus by 25%.
• This bonus cannot go below 0%.

I'm not quite sure. I think pain res on it's own is very good and simply provable by it being most picked perk on killer side for 3 years each month. Same as windows. I believe that the nature of perk is fine, however it needs to not synergize with perks such as dms and grim. Eruption was nerfed for survivors being unable to work on gens for 20s while dms and pain res is even harder while lasting for a bit too long. You'd say they may just remove scream which they have tried yet the perks that work on skillchecks went crazy - merciless storm for example.

I don't think Lithe needs activation + nerf. It does what it can and out of chase you won't fast vault anyway. If we talk about reducing the effect off all exhaustion perks by 1s that's completely different story.

Shoulder of Burden is the Xenomorph situation where it's fundamentaly broken but so underused and hard to pull off in solo that even when the nature of the perk is strong it won't do much in regular matches. It can only be used effetively if you are not hooked before using it while also using it with other antitunnel otherwise you become new hot target. While Shoulder can potentially be cheesed it won't be a case in 99.99999 % of the swf matches.

Fast track and specialist I don't understand your point.