Feedback On New Keys & Maps

jesterkind

With killer queues being what they are at the moment, I've taken to playing survivor most recently, and part of what I've been doing is testing out the new stuff from the last patch. I feel I have enough experience with the two items that got reworked in particular to give some feedback, and it's pretty mixed.

I'll start with keys, because I want to establish first that I think this rework is great. Keys fill their role so much better now, alongside having a new function entirely- both the teammate aura and the insta-unlock for chests are worthwhile effects, leaning into what keys did before while giving them new functionality and making them far less addon dependant.
It's not all positives, since the Blood Amber did cop an extremely hefty nerf from what I can tell, but that's a pretty reasonable sacrifice in my opinion. Keys are damn near perfect.

It's important I establish that first, because I think maps got the short end of the stick in a way that contrasts pointedly with keys.
In comparison, maps did get new functionality, but their old functionality was practically gutted and they're no less addon dependant- the only things that changed are that you can get FEWER effects with addons, and the one effect you can still get has been moved to a more expensive addon. Maps copped a downgrade here overall, even if their new effect is quite useful- they went up and down, where keys only went up, Blood Amber notwithstanding.

A few thoughts about maps:

• I see no reason maps shouldn't reveal generators without needing to put the beam of light down first. It's a useful effect for everyone, especially newer players, and pretty much the base pitch for the map as an item. It's a little strange that this was removed.
• Totem reveal really should be basekit, it's one of the three main things you'd want to see with an item where the pitch is "you can see the aura of static objects within the trial". If they're going to be on an addon, it should at least be a cheap addon.
• Related to that, I don't really understand why the totem addon disables the map's main effect of showing pallets and windows. It doesn't bother me since I never really cared about that effect to begin with, but I'm sure it's disappointing to some people- it doesn't even say it does this in the addon's description, so maybe it's a bug?
• CHESTS. One of the BIGGEST flaws with maps, the most glaring oversight that used to exist, is that there was no way of making them track CHESTS aside from Detective's Hunch. Not only are they not trackable with the new maps at base - another example of how the previous use cases for maps have been largely removed on a conceptual level - but you can't even get them from addons. With how much of a push BHVR are making for chests and items to be more of a big deal in the trial, I think it's a big mistake to not add a perkless way of tracking chest locations like this.
• While I do like the idea of lowering the number of addons to reduce bloodweb bloat - a real problem, especially for survivors - I do feel the combination of changing maps at base the way they were AND lowering the number of addons this much leaves maps losing tons of functionality. I'm sure some of it is fine - there was never really much call to track hooks unless you were going for a sabotage build - but losing other effects like the exit gates being trackable is genuinely noticeable.
• This is a smaller deal and not necessarily something I think should be fixed but I think it's worth highlighting, just to reinforce my point again, that the map's iridescent addon reflects how the item's initial use case isn't deemed all that important anymore. Maps always tracked static objects, keys always tracked players, and the map's iridescent addon tracks… the killer, same as the key's iridescent addon. If the Blood Amber had been reworked to, say, track chests, I'd kinda understand - the items get iridescent addons that break the rules and swap their roles, in that case - but as it stands maps just feel confused in purpose.

I don't think these issues are unfixable, though. Honestly, I think it'd be pretty easy- here's what I'd propose:

• Base effect of maps: Channel the item to reveal the aura of pallets, windows, generators, and chests within [X] metres
• (Also the beam of light, unchanged)
• Shuffle around addons so the totem one is a lower rarity (maybe just flat out swap it with the one for increasing range? That is a really good effect for current maps)
• Add in two more addons: One for tracking the exit gates, one for tracking the hatch. This could feasibly be a single addon (maybe the replacement purple after downgrading the totem tracking addon?) since those effects are similar-ish in intention.

TL;DR: Maps and keys used to share an issue. You had to run addons to meaningfully engage with the item's clearest niche, showing static objects and showing player auras respectively.
Keys got this fixed by making their clearest niche basekit and adding an extra effect on top for good measure.
Maps, by contrast, got their clearest niche severely diminished, and only got an extra effect on top.

SoGo

I mostly agree with you.

I created my own discussion about this topic:

@SoGo said:

Hello, devs and forum users!

With the newest update, we are getting the new Maps, Keys and Fog Vials. Today, my focus is on the Maps and how could they be better.

Their basekit is mostly fine, but some of the uniqueness was lost in the changes.

About what is wrong with them, I agree with @jesterkind entirely.

Currently, generators are only revealed when you activate the Beam of Light. This is kind of clunky an limiting, as it only tracks gens in a 32 meter range, not the full range of the Map. So, why not change it? I would make it so Generators (and other things) are revealed to players using Maps every time they use it, and the Light Beam only reveals everything the Maps track (except pallets and windows) to everyone else, as well as marking the spot where it was activated, as it does now.

Also... This should be done.
Bloodsense Map:
• Reveals auras of generators, windows and pallets in a 32 meter radius for 12 seconds.
• Reveals auras of all injured survivors in a 96 meter range.
• Causes pools of blood to spawn beneath you while revealing auras.
• 7 charges.

Next, a small request of mine: Please, put the quote from the original Rainbow Map to the new Annotated Map.

And third thing, the add-ons. I understand and support the decision to reduce bloodweb clutter by reducing the amount of add-ons, but 5 is too little. Imo, the sweet spot is about 7-10 add-ons per item type.

Here is my ideal set of Map add-ons, made from a mix of the old, PTB and some new ideas. My intention was to also make it so players who have more than 1000 hours in the game would have a reason to pick Maps. New add-ons are marked with a *.

Glowing Ink (Common):
• Increases the duration of auras revealed by Maps by 2 seconds.

Yellow Wire (Common):
• When using the Map, all Exit Gates within range are revealed.

Black Silk Cord (Uncommon):
• When using the Map, all Chests within range are revealed.

Gnarled Compass (Uncommon):
• Increases a Map's charges by 2.

Sharpened Flint (Rare):
• When using the Map, all Totems within range are revealed.

Battered Tape (Rare):
• Increases the maximum range of a Map by 8 meters.

*Shard Pendant (Very Rare):
• Spawns a Iridescent Glyph into the Trial, once the Endgame Collapse starts. Interacting with it grants a reward of 40 Iridescent Shards to the player.
• When using the Map, the Iridescent Glyph is revealed. It cannot be revealed to other players by the Beam of Light.

*Safe Combination (Very Rare):
• Changes one of the Basement Lockers into a Safe.
• While holding the Map, you can unlock the Safe, which will grant you 4000 extra Bloodpoints and contains a Herb.
• When using the Map, the Safe is revealed.

Crimson Stamp (Iridescent):
• The auras of all generators are revealed when using the Map.
• The intensity of the Generators auras reveal their current progress.

And, that's all. Thoughts?

Related discussions:

Part 2: Keys / Part 3: Fog Vials

The only two things I want to happen and I did not put in the post, are swapping the rarities of Gnarled Compass and Sharpened Flint around, and adding one small thing to distinguish the three map variants:

The common map would track Exit Gates basekit.

The uncommon would track Chests basekit.

And the rare one would track Totems basekit.

This would make it so there is a reason to run each map.

YamamuraVideoRentals

So in comparison to the old system:

• All keys have the gold/eroded token function, to varying degrees depending on rarity. It's basically a free use of the Bond perk.
• Most new key addons only make basic improvements like use speed, charges, aura time…
• Blood amber nerfed to allowing the killer to see your aura as well.
• You can fast unlock chests and get better items.
• Addons to keep keys when dying or unlocking the hatch have been removed. Yet they are still rare items.

As for maps on the other hand:

• Most previous map functionality is gone. Maps now act as the Windows of Opportunity perk with obscenely excessive range.
• Most new offerings increase charge, aura time, or distance further.
• One addon does allow totems to be seen again.
• Another addon will reveal the killers aura in close proximity to the beam for a mere 6 seconds. Hardly long enough to be useful.
• You can't track hatch or exit gates anymore, and you can't share the aura reading with your teammates either.

All in all, the new way is different but I wouldn't say it's in a better place. I think new functionalities could have been added to the existing items without completely redoing the entire system.

UndeddJester

I was making my own thread on this with largely the same observations, but since you've done the work, I'll just pop them in here. My quick fire thoughts:

• Gens - I agree the beam of light for gen auras is clunky, to my mind it should just be inherent to the map user, I'd use the shared effect later.
• Gates - Also, why not just allow them to track gates as well basekit, no add on required? Experienced players already known the possible spawns, or at least structure that indicates the gate location in the distance, just make gate tracking a part of maps in general. It's not really an effect that make sor breaks the items.
• Hatch - Not needed. The only argument I have for not making this basekit or a feature of the new maps in general, is there are already enough incentives to slug for the 4k, I don't think killers need more reasons. It was almost always a pointless part of maps anyway, so I don't miss it. You can't find it until it spawns, which if the map tracked and revealed it, you pretty much already found it, most killers slug for the 4k anyway, and if the killer finds it first a map revealing its aura isn't gonna help you. It was pointless on old maps, and I don't think its healthy for new maps. Hatch should be hatch, a bit like death saving throws in D&D, no modifiers, just rolling the dice and fate.
• Chests - Also not needed, chests fit the bill more for keys if anything, and I don't like the aura overload of old maps.
• Pillar of Light - The light beam should also just be a thing I can turn on and off without charges, decouple it from the other aura effects. Start to channel and pop it down or turn it off with the action button... this would make Pillar feel more like they used to work... and old pillar was nice, not strong enough to override the value you needed from othwr addons on old maps, but just a nice effect that would be pleasant to have basekit. (I'll come to the iri).
• Charges - The shift tontime based charges I think is fine. Easier to balance giving strong effects around charges if players can't "flash" auras. However itln that same breathe, I don't like thesmall number of charges. For keys low charges make sense because player auras are quite clutch and something you want deliberately want at specific times. Map auras are largely convenience and something you want to check much more often. I'd say go nuts and give them 8/10/12 charges.
• Totems - I have no issue with totems not being basekit, one thing I disliked about iri maps of old was it was pure aura overload... and this totem always countered Hex's really hard, so I don't mind it being purple... however the fact you lose other auras sucks. Just have it add totems to the list of auras, and then, in conjunction with the buff to map charges, lower the charges by 50%.
• The iri... see below.

Iridescent Rework

The Iri offering revealing the killer to me is illogical to what maps are for. Keys are for players, maps are for terrain, and I think keeping this logic distinct is much better for maintaining eaches identity. I also believe that maps are a much more convenient item than keys, and having this killer aura reveal means the charges have to be lower to account for it. So would say remove the killer aura from the iridescent to allow more charges.

I would then make it so that channelling a map with the iridescent reveals the aura of the map itself, and any aura it sees to all other survivors.

While this doesn't sound particularly flash on paper, it opens up a lot of subtle and clever uses for maps: -

• Can used to preemptively support teammates you know are near dead zones, making use of the large radius of maps to ensure you both can reach safety.
• Points out where the map user is (also in a funny unique way), which can be used for calls to heal, help set up for flashlights, pallet stuns and Michone dropkicks, and if in chase generally provides info on where the killer is in a similar way to how Empathy does.
• Allows the map user to highlight key locations, so if you want players to see a particular aura (say a hex totem or a nearly complete gen) you can pillar it as you run away, affirming a teammate has the chance to pick it up, because they can see you in chase.

TLDR

That's how I see maps working best: -

• 8/10/12 charges
• Generators just revealed with WoO auras.
• Gates added to aura list basekit.
• Pillar of Light decoupled from auras and placable without channeling.
• Totem add-on just adds totems to the aura list, but halves the charges.
• Iri add-on reworked to no longer revela the killers aura, instead reveals the aura of the channeling map, and all visible auras to it to all survivors.

UndeddJester

Also want to add that I agree with you whole heartedly on keys. Keys are perfect, even regarding Blood Amber for keys... I don't see it as a nerf.

The fact the range is limitless means you have the effect of Object of Obsession, but it's entirely in your beck and call. That is very good no matter how you slice it.

Obviously its strength in looping isn't quite so strong, but I would also argue that in many cases the killer seeing your aura isnt even a problem anyway, the fact you are completely unmindgamable means you can always counter rotate the killer and force the killer to walk after you/try and get angle on your terms, not theirs. Yes Nurse is Nurse, but outside of that not a big issue…

Plus, we also have access to old keys... but a buffed version. Take Distortion... it charges in chase, blocks your Aura reveal, hides you scratch marks and let's you see the killers aura.

This is the reason I don't take complaints about Blood Amber seriously. Just take Distortion and you have a considerably stronger version of Blood Amber than you ever did before.