Noticing a Trend...

caipt

BHVR seems to favor adding machanics to just remove strategies altogether instead of actually solving the issues that cause them. Camping doesnt exist now, but you can still just tunnel them off hook once they self unhook. Basekit BT is fine because it doesnt remove tunneling, it just adds the chance for counterplay. We saw this in the basekit unbreakable PTB as well; slugging is unfun? well now its just gone. Granted that one didnt go through but it does show that tendency to just remove a mechanic or strategy instead of solving its issues. Even shows in the recent SM rework. Fixed none of her core design problems and just made her 3gen impossible. Now, she's still antiloop nonsense but now her antiloop will injure you for daring to stay at the loop. Still badly designed, still unfun to face, except at least now the game will end in under 30mins.

Khylwch

@Kaitsja said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548222#Comment_3548222

I believe they took into account the killer being in chase near the hook, and made it so the meter does not fill.

Actually no they did not. I played after our posts and in 2/3 of the matches the survivors blatantly exploited the new loop holes against both my son and myself. You can even be up on the 2nd floor of the ship chasing a survivor or kicking a gen and the player on the hook which is on the ground unhooks and it's also quick. Face camping is a losing strategy and that is why it was only common with players who were poor killers. The players already made face camping a losing strategy and most killers learn that quickly. Just like flashlight teams were really awful to play against at first. Now killers laugh when a flashlight team appears, because I know it's a quick 2 hook or a 4k. Everyone wants to win but if you beat me it's actually more of a respect thing like good job and maybe you teach me something. What everyone hates is when you lose by cheating which is way too common and doesn't appear to be a focus of the dev team. Or when in this case the devs create a solution to a problem that was already a losing strategy and opens several ways for players to exploit the new rules. The new rules also create free safe gen zones. If the killer doesn't want to give the free unhook, they leave with haste. The survivors all go the gens in proximity of the hooked survivor so that the killer either gives a free deliverance or cannot patrol the gens in that area. So most killers play normal and tunnel out much more often.

DrDucky

@kisfenkin said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3546223#Comment_3546223

Why would they wait it out? Unless they are SWF they have absolutely no obligation to sit on the hook and max their boldness only to get killed anyway.

If the killer wants to tunnel you cannot stop them from doing it.

crogers271

@Huge_Bush said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548690#Comment_3548690

Pop was just an example for the sake of discussion. They could do a base-kit Ruin, again, just an example, that rewards the killer for pushing survivors off of gens and have it deactivate after a certain amount of hooks. They can do base-kit corrupt or come up with something new.

Okay, I understand what you mean by crapshoot. But by the very nature of the games balance, shouldn’t killers get more value out of perks than survivors? They have to worry about 4 players with a combined 16 perk. They have to constantly consider what perks each survivor has and play around it even if they don’t have it. Even now, killers have to assume that someone who hops in a locker might have DS or Head On, they have to guess if they need to count to 10 if they want to tunnel someone or wait longer just in case as survivor brought it BT to extend the timer. They have to guess on whether or not it’s okay to leave a slug or risk them getting up with Unbreakable. Both sides have to face the guessing game and both sides suffer when they get it wrong.

Yes, it’s one of multiple things a killer can do, but it is still part of the games balance. It still allows the player to express their strength and requires the survivors to come together in order to succeed.

If the devs never intended for camping to be used for securing kills, why was insidious introduced? Why does the anti-camping mechanic deactivate in endgame?

Yes, the hook timer pressures survivors, camping compounded that by taking advantage of altruistic survivors. You can argue that it was easy to just stand there and prevent bad survivors from rescuing, it was anything but easy to do so against good survivors. And no, it didn’t have to be a full SWF. This balance decision isn’t being done with balance in mind, it’s being done to appease complaints and make things easier for bad players on one side an harder for bad players on their other side.

Okay, I understand what you mean by crapshoot. But by the very nature of the games balance, shouldn’t killers get more value out of perks than survivors?

Yes, generally true, but let me back up a step.

The issue here is not perk strength per se. I'll use distortion as an example of a perk that's random chance but still healthy. As survivor I could get a lot of value, or none, depending on killer build, but the game still plays out. It may or may not give me an edge, which if fine, and DbD thrives off that random chance mechanic.

The game goes too far though when the perk setup completely override strategy. If the answer to 'how do I counter X" is that you should have been running such and such perk, that's bad game design. Perks should bolster certain strategies, not be necessary requirements.

Additionally, distortion entirely impacts how I play the game. If I want to run a stealth focused build, I control that completely. While given your posts I think you disagree, I think DbD is more enjoyable when the survivors are viewed as four people randomly thrown together with a common goal to work towards, but not necessarily a team.

Huge_Bush

@crogers271 said:

https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3548710#Comment_3548710

Okay, I understand what you mean by crapshoot. But by the very nature of the games balance, shouldn’t killers get more value out of perks than survivors?

Yes, generally true, but let me back up a step.

The issue here is not perk strength per se. I'll use distortion as an example of a perk that's random chance but still healthy. As survivor I could get a lot of value, or none, depending on killer build, but the game still plays out. It may or may not give me an edge, which if fine, and DbD thrives off that random chance mechanic.

The game goes too far though when the perk setup completely override strategy. If the answer to 'how do I counter X" is that you should have been running such and such perk, that's bad game design. Perks should bolster certain strategies, not be necessary requirements.

Additionally, distortion entirely impacts how I play the game. If I want to run a stealth focused build, I control that completely. While given your posts I think you disagree, I think DbD is more enjoyable when the survivors are viewed as four people randomly thrown together with a common goal to work towards, but not necessarily a team.

I do agree with the point about perks and bad game design. No one should feel like they have to bring in anything. But at the same time, I believe perks shouldn’t cover for everything that can happen and that, for survivors, teamwork should come into play.

I guess my issue is I see the game as 1vs4 and survivors should only be 1/4 the strength of the killer and all things equal, the killer should catch the survivor after a 25-35 second chase and that Survivors should be pushed to work together, perhaps more than just doing gens, to succeed just like how people want to push killers to do more than tunnel or camp.

In the end, it’s a game and we can agree to disagree. I just wanted to say to you and @Archol123 that I’m sorry if I came off as snarky, rude or argumentative. Going through tough times (employment and health issues that reared their ugly head) and I’m not right in the head.

Here’s a lick of one of my kitties as a peace offering

Bastard completely destroyed that chair.