Idea to help with the SWF "problem"

ba_tetsuo

Introduce a casual and ranked mode:
Casual = Group play (swfs, killer+1/2/3 surivors in a group, etc.)
Ranked=All Solos

Introduce rewards at end of each season for achieving higher ranks (Cosmetics, specifically), and introduce rank decay. This incentivizes people (survivors, mostly, since this would be the preferred killer mode imo) to play ranked mode. To earn those sweet end of season rewards, and keep playing to prevent rank decay from striping those rewards away.

On the flip side, make casual mode for killer work more like KYF, where all killers have all perks. This would incentivize killers to this mode, allowing them to try new builds or try things that wouldn't necessarily be optimal without fear of deranking. Killers could also invite their friends to play in casual mode with them. I know there are a number of times where I've had 2 or 3 friends that wanted to play killer, but we couldn't find a slot to fill for KYF. (This has some potential for abuse, but its to be expected in game modes where you vs your friends),

Arsoul

Remove SWF. Done

ba_tetsuo

@Arsoul said:
Remove SWF. Done

Won't work. people want to play with their friends. Just make it a casual game mode

Arsoul

Personally I'm not a SWF friends fan, I prefer F13th proximity chat myself

Sel

Ehh, while SWF can really annoy me when I'm playing as Killer, the most amount of fun I have with this game is when I play with my 1 friend whom I bought the game to play with. Not being able to play in a ranked setting him would put me off the game a lot, I didn't buy it to play with randoms who I have no way to communicate with other than 2 emotes and a few crouches. I can see a lot of survivors not enjoying the game as much if SWF was just a casual KYF type mode. Got to disagree, but it's good to see somebody providing an alternative rather than just 'remove SWF entirely.' as I see a lot of posts saying that.

artist

Arsoul said:

Remove SWF. Done

that's how you kill your game

Peanits

Just going to nitpick a couple of things here:

1. This wouldn't stop people from playing with their friends in ranked games. I'm not sure if you were around during the beta or shortly after launch, but originally SWF was not a feature in the game. To get around this, people would queue at the same time as their friends, check to see if they're in the same lobby, and leave if not and re-queue until they were. You would see the same here. If a group of friends wanted to play together but also wanted the ranked rewards, they could very easily do the same. This would drive up queue times for everyone and defeat the whole point.
2. The latter half is backwards. Unlocking all perks in casual mode would be an incentive for newer players to play it, giving them the ability to try out perks they have not yet unlocked, yet this would be the mode that (ideally) all of the organized groups would be playing. It would naturally be pairing newer killers with more coordinated survivors. Experienced killers with lots of hours under their belts would have these perks unlocked, so they wouldn't have any incentive to take on the extra challenge.
3. Allowing a killer to play in the same lobby as a friend in a live match would be heavily abused. It's already a pretty common occurrence, and I can only see it becoming more prevalent if that were to happen. Some would use it to grief other players, but more commonly it would just be used to farm bloodpoints. This is basically why KYF does not award bloodpoints. If you need some extra people to fill some slots, I would suggest checking the Looking For Players subforum or the Looking For Group channels of the official Discord server.

I'll be honest, I don't think it's that big of a problem. The vast majority of the groups I've played against have been casual players- just a couple friends hanging out and chatting as they play. The 'tryhard' groups are very few and far between and only make up a very, very small section of the players. Even still, a good group of solo survivors will pose almost just as much of a challenge as an experienced group. Someone being in voice chat doesn't make them any better in a chase, it just helps them co-ordinate a little better. A good survivor will have an easy time tracking the killer and know when they should be doing generators or going for a save.

If anything, I think the changes should be subtle. Bring the solo survivors up to the same level by giving them little bits of information, and then give killers a slight buff as well to compensate. It was mentioned a while back that making kindred baseline would help balance things, since that information is already available to a group in voice chat but not for solo survivors. In my experience, killing most groups is very doable, and making massive sweeping changes for the few exceptional cases would be overkill, and I feel like it would get stale steamrolling over casual groups of friends over and over.

PureHostility

@Peanits said:
Just going to nitpick a couple of things here:

1. This wouldn't stop people from playing with their friends in ranked games. I'm not sure if you were around during the beta or shortly after launch, but originally SWF was not a feature in the game. To get around this, people would queue at the same time as their friends, check to see if they're in the same lobby, and leave if not and re-queue until they were. You would see the same here. If a group of friends wanted to play together but also wanted the ranked rewards, they could very easily do the same. This would drive up queue times for everyone and defeat the whole point.
2. The latter half is backwards. Unlocking all perks in casual mode would be an incentive for newer players to play it, giving them the ability to try out perks they have not yet unlocked, yet this would be the mode that (ideally) all of the organized groups would be playing. It would naturally be pairing newer killers with more coordinated survivors. Experienced killers with lots of hours under their belts would have these perks unlocked, so they wouldn't have any incentive to take on the extra challenge.
3. Allowing a killer to play in the same lobby as a friend in a live match would be heavily abused. It's already a pretty common occurrence, and I can only see it becoming more prevalent if that were to happen. Some would use it to grief other players, but more commonly it would just be used to farm bloodpoints. This is basically why KYF does not award bloodpoints. If you need some extra people to fill some slots, I would suggest checking the Looking For Players subforum or the Looking For Group channels of the official Discord server.

I'll be honest, I don't think it's that big of a problem. The vast majority of the groups I've played against have been casual players- just a couple friends hanging out and chatting as they play. The 'tryhard' groups are very few and far between and only make up a very, very small section of the players. Even still, a good group of solo survivors will pose almost just as much of a challenge as an experienced group. Someone being in voice chat doesn't make them any better in a chase, it just helps them co-ordinate a little better. A good survivor will have an easy time tracking the killer and know when they should be doing generators or going for a save.

If anything, I think the changes should be subtle. Bring the solo survivors up to the same level by giving them little bits of information, and then give killers a slight buff as well to compensate. It was mentioned a while back that making kindred baseline would help balance things, since that information is already available to a group in voice chat but not for solo survivors. In my experience, killing most groups is very doable, and making massive sweeping changes for the few exceptional cases would be overkill, and I feel like it would get stale steamrolling over casual groups of friends over and over.

That's a bad argument, saying that not all SWF groups are that.
It's exactly like saying "Not everyone uses third party cheats in GTA 5 Online in order to screw people over, some just use it for messing around, so it is fineeeeee!".

SWF allows for the game balance to be thrown out the window, rendering multiple killers semi unplayable with a minimal amount of communication from survivor team (voip; a communication that was never supposed to be in the game in the first place!), plentiful of perks are useless too and game mechanics too...

The sole reason it allows for such things should rise a red flag and be changed.
Personally, I find SWF annoying to play with as a solo player, there is almost nothing worse than playing as a solo player in a lobby of 3 man SWF... enjoy being their BP pinata in case you get caught. Happens way too often in red ranks.

purebalance

@ba_tetsuo said:

@Arsoul said:
Remove SWF. Done

Won't work. people want to play with their friends. Just make it a casual game mode

No, people want to dominate and get BP because they played with their friends. The stupid claim that if they remove it then SWF players would abuse the lobbies to try to ensure they got in could easily be countered by not showing the other players identities or characters to each other. SWF should not reward BP or anything for that matter. Having free perks given to you without equipping them is ridiculous.

borna_lk

No. I’m a rank 1 killer, and SWF groups are just a challenge, in no way are they unbeatable. If your experiencing too much toxicity from a group then teach them a lesson. Hook one of them and facecamp them till the end, you might even snag a couple more hooks/kills cause of it. But removing SWF or making it into a “no bps/xp,” mode is just a bad idea. Id rather the focus on a 2v8 game mode 

The_Crusader

The biggest problem with SWF is the toxicity. No amount of giving solo players more info will deal with that. These are people whonhave noninterest in playing the game normally, they just want to bully the killer. Stupid perks like DS and OoO enable them.

Then we have totems. Nothing worse than chasing 1 guy who runs last your totem then 10 seconds later you see the whole gang running down there. How do you balance that?

DwightsLifeMatters

Peanits said:

Just going to nitpick a couple of things here:

1. This wouldn't stop people from playing with their friends in ranked games. I'm not sure if you were around during the beta or shortly after launch, but originally SWF was not a feature in the game. To get around this, people would queue at the same time as their friends, check to see if they're in the same lobby, and leave if not and re-queue until they were. You would see the same here. If a group of friends wanted to play together but also wanted the ranked rewards, they could very easily do the same. This would drive up queue times for everyone and defeat the whole point.
2. The latter half is backwards. Unlocking all perks in casual mode would be an incentive for newer players to play it, giving them the ability to try out perks they have not yet unlocked, yet this would be the mode that (ideally) all of the organized groups would be playing. It would naturally be pairing newer killers with more coordinated survivors. Experienced killers with lots of hours under their belts would have these perks unlocked, so they wouldn't have any incentive to take on the extra challenge.
3. Allowing a killer to play in the same lobby as a friend in a live match would be heavily abused. It's already a pretty common occurrence, and I can only see it becoming more prevalent if that were to happen. Some would use it to grief other players, but more commonly it would just be used to farm bloodpoints. This is basically why KYF does not award bloodpoints. If you need some extra people to fill some slots, I would suggest checking the Looking For Players subforum or the Looking For Group channels of the official Discord server.

I'll be honest, I don't think it's that big of a problem. The vast majority of the groups I've played against have been casual players- just a couple friends hanging out and chatting as they play. The 'tryhard' groups are very few and far between and only make up a very, very small section of the players. Even still, a good group of solo survivors will pose almost just as much of a challenge as an experienced group. Someone being in voice chat doesn't make them any better in a chase, it just helps them co-ordinate a little better. A good survivor will have an easy time tracking the killer and know when they should be doing generators or going for a save.

If anything, I think the changes should be subtle. Bring the solo survivors up to the same level by giving them little bits of information, and then give killers a slight buff as well to compensate. It was mentioned a while back that making kindred baseline would help balance things, since that information is already available to a group in voice chat but not for solo survivors. In my experience, killing most groups is very doable, and making massive sweeping changes for the few exceptional cases would be overkill, and I feel like it would get stale steamrolling over casual groups of friends over and over.

1. U r missing one point here: back than in the beta we had just a "few" players. Compared to now with so much more players I don't really see that being a viable "strategy" to trick the system (unless u see trying to queue together for 30+ minutes for one match is viable)

2. I agree. It should be the other way around: casual -> u need to unlock everything 
Ranked -> everything is unlocked 
Same with shooter games with a league system 

3. I agree 

redsopine01

Peanits said:

Just going to nitpick a couple of things here:

1. This wouldn't stop people from playing with their friends in ranked games. I'm not sure if you were around during the beta or shortly after launch, but originally SWF was not a feature in the game. To get around this, people would queue at the same time as their friends, check to see if they're in the same lobby, and leave if not and re-queue until they were. You would see the same here. If a group of friends wanted to play together but also wanted the ranked rewards, they could very easily do the same. This would drive up queue times for everyone and defeat the whole point.
2. The latter half is backwards. Unlocking all perks in casual mode would be an incentive for newer players to play it, giving them the ability to try out perks they have not yet unlocked, yet this would be the mode that (ideally) all of the organized groups would be playing. It would naturally be pairing newer killers with more coordinated survivors. Experienced killers with lots of hours under their belts would have these perks unlocked, so they wouldn't have any incentive to take on the extra challenge.
3. Allowing a killer to play in the same lobby as a friend in a live match would be heavily abused. It's already a pretty common occurrence, and I can only see it becoming more prevalent if that were to happen. Some would use it to grief other players, but more commonly it would just be used to farm bloodpoints. This is basically why KYF does not award bloodpoints. If you need some extra people to fill some slots, I would suggest checking the Looking For Players subforum or the Looking For Group channels of the official Discord server.

I'll be honest, I don't think it's that big of a problem. The vast majority of the groups I've played against have been casual players- just a couple friends hanging out and chatting as they play. The 'tryhard' groups are very few and far between and only make up a very, very small section of the players. Even still, a good group of solo survivors will pose almost just as much of a challenge as an experienced group. Someone being in voice chat doesn't make them any better in a chase, it just helps them co-ordinate a little better. A good survivor will have an easy time tracking the killer and know when they should be doing generators or going for a save.

If anything, I think the changes should be subtle. Bring the solo survivors up to the same level by giving them little bits of information, and then give killers a slight buff as well to compensate. It was mentioned a while back that making kindred baseline would help balance things, since that information is already available to a group in voice chat but not for solo survivors. In my experience, killing most groups is very doable, and making massive sweeping changes for the few exceptional cases would be overkill, and I feel like it would get stale steamrolling over casual groups of friends over and over.

Good points but see also hurts solos a lot as it's common for 3 man teams to leave the solo survivor to die do unsafe rescues to kill them or go out there way to get you killed even running over making noise and pointing at you body blocking so you die despite them having full health leading to a increase in players with the overused meta perks so they can feel safe in a lobby with groups. Also I've played games where I've been in a party chat with survivors and it makes for great commentary in broadcasts as I can mind game better one game had huntresses lulllaby active told the one I was lobbied with that I was in a party chat with for 3 gens it was left alone by him till he could know for certain I was no way near it to stop them it's all about how its used for me if I lobby with people I know I'm gonna msg them letting them know and if we party chat it don't do a thing lol I just use it to mind game them by saying I see you over there when I can't making them loom around for me and wastes time or if I get a daily I'm not good at I just let them know and point out once I have it it's a full game sometimes it turns into a huge farm game for fun other's I get my daily walk away and next time we meet it's no holds barred

fcc2014

You don't have enough players to support multiple game modes with the current lobby finding system. Long wait times will become standard.

Not everyone plays this game on try hard mode.

Eliminate survive with friends people will go play something else with their friends.