Grades are better until rank reset?

EntitySpawn

So in the MMR tests and them explaining what they did I find the grade section most interesting as the devs clearly states it's a good system but the real issues is when good players dont play in awhile and get reset...

So theory, grades is better because it's not just based of kills/escapes. However because of rank reset it can be an issue and without it people will often reach a certain point or the maximum.

Could we remove rank reset and remove the safety pip option (you either win or lose) and then each killer has their own grade. (These grades can be hidden just to not confuse people)

Summary: use grades, remove safety pip and rank reset and have each killer with a separate grade. Have a tight range in grade matchup (iri can only match with iri, purple with purple etc.)

Jay_K

@Peanits said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911879#Comment_2911879

Absolutely. This, among other reasons, is why we don't consider this to be a 1:1 test of the old system. We made sure to call it out in the post. We did what we could to give it the fairest shot we could, but we definitely do not consider this a conclusive test of rank matchmaking. There is simply no way to test a system like that in 1-2 days.

Could this be something that you would be willing to test on a larger scale (more than 1 - 2 days). Also what chances would there be for grades to work like the old rankings did were you could lose grades as well as gain them? Or are grades just pointless now?

Tiufal

@jesterkind said:

...Did we read the same update?

The grade-based test seemed like a complete failure from how they described it. One sided matches, with kill rates going completely haywire to be too high at the top + too low at the bottom. It wasn't just because of rank reset, it's because the grade system doesn't accurately reflect skill on a large enough scale to work as a matchmaker as well as having the flaw of players who haven't played for a while getting lowered too far.

(Also, they... seemed to be portraying seeing grades as negative, not positive?)

the issue is that grade based matchmaking is just about grades. its easy to get high grades just by playing much which is all grades stand for. BUT, the system behind it, the emblem system, is by far superior to the actual MMR, cause it basically uses every necessary factor of skill, while MMR doesnt have anything to do with evaluating skill at all. its the most wrong conclusion the devs came up with. as killer many people can get into higher mmr just because the kill rate goes in your favor if you play as scummy as possible, which isnt skill at all (its just abusing gameflaws). as well as survivors can get higher mmr just by playing in a 4man to cover their own weakness (3 mates that can cover you). emblem system just needs to be used as MMR instead of some summed up grade. every day devs deem emblems worse than mmr its a lost day, and the game will suffer more and more until they start understanding what stupidity they started.

jesterkind

@Tiufal said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2911599#Comment_2911599

the issue is that grade based matchmaking is just about grades. its easy to get high grades just by playing much which is all grades stand for. BUT, the system behind it, the emblem system, is by far superior to the actual MMR, cause it basically uses every necessary factor of skill, while MMR doesnt have anything to do with evaluating skill at all. its the most wrong conclusion the devs came up with. as killer many people can get into higher mmr just because the kill rate goes in your favor if you play as scummy as possible, which isnt skill at all (its just abusing gameflaws). as well as survivors can get higher mmr just by playing in a 4man to cover their own weakness (3 mates that can cover you). emblem system just needs to be used as MMR instead of some summed up grade. every day devs deem emblems worse than mmr its a lost day, and the game will suffer more and more until they start understanding what stupidity they started.

I didn't necessarily come here to defend the MMR system, but I may as well if I'm being directly pinged to do so.

The emblem system is being dramatically overvalued here. Even if you like that it looks at more factors than the MMR system, there is no getting away from the fact that it cannot cover for all scenarios because it requires playing in a very specific way- it works somewhat better for survivor (though it's still not good), but there are some killers who get punished just for using their power. Emblems are fine as a general feedback for a reward-based progression system, but functioned awfully as a matchmaker.

Second, the reason it feels like MMR doesn't evaluate skill is because you're looking at it wrong. It's meant to measure how consistent your skill is over a large batch of games, not measure how well you played within one specific match. There's a reason MMR systems are designed the way they are, and I'm no expert but I'd assume that reason is because it's the simplest, most reliable method of measuring skill in that way.

Thirdly and lastly, balance issues and game flaws are separate issues. You cannot build a matchmaker around them, or you'd need to constantly update it as those flaws are fixed.