If the devs are so horny on using MMR why are they unable to use it properly?

BenZ0

What I mean is simple conditions that should alter your MMR with lets say:

• - If you dont use meta perks or use meta perks (Each slot equipped with one meta perk would increase your MMR for that search)
• -Same goes to addons and items, if you dont equip one you should be matched with ppl that either dont use any or weak stuff, same geos to killer addons ofc
• -If your character is low level then your MMR should also be recued and try to match you with ppl close to you level, doesnt has to be perfect.

You could say "Well maybe it is already doing that but there are simply not enough players online so you dont get matched with them." Thats bullshit cuz I see often enough games or get with my FULL SWF WITH FULL META killers that are low level or even play their first game ever with that Killer. Its not just in the last few weeks, it has been always like that.

I usually dont ######### on the devs that easy cuz I am mostly very neutral to most things however I dont see ANY possible explanation or reason why they should not do that.

knell

@Peanits said:

I just want to start by saying that none of these are bad ideas. On paper, they all make sense. Actually incorporating them into a matchmaking system is where things start to get tricky.

For starters, let's look at just perks. Someone has to subjectively pick which perks are meta, we cannot base it solely on how often they're used. A perk like BBQ & Chili is incredibly popular, but I think we can all agree that it's not because slapping it on will carry you to victory. Applying a penalty to it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. So already, you need to selectively apply penalties to perks and also determine how much of a penalty each one should carry. This is already highly subjective and I strongly doubt that you could ever find a value for each one that everyone considers fair. There are bound to be loads of disagreements over penalties (e.g. This perk has too much of a penalty. It's not even that good. Now I get super tough matches just for using it.)

This also does not factor in the fact that not all perks are equal. Some perks are stronger when combined with other perks/add-ons. Take Dead Man's Switch, for example. On its own, it's okay. Put in on a Killer like The Artist that can easily force people off of generators and it becomes much stronger. How do you apply a single value to it that doesn't discourage using it on other Killers while also fairly penalizing it on ones that can make full use of it?

All that aside, these penalties/bonuses are redundant when it comes to how a matchmaking system actually works. By design, using strong things inherently increases your chances of winning. When you win, your rating goes up and you'll end up against tougher opponents. Put simply, the matchmaker does not care how you got there. It doesn't care if you're a perkless legend, it doesn't care if you run meta every match with ultra rare add-ons. What it cares about is your chances of winning, and its' only goal it to pair you with people where your strategy (whatever that may be) works about half of the time. When it stops working more than half the time, you plateau and stop climbing. This doesn't mean that you're a great player because you have the best stuff, it just means that the matchmaker has successfully put you in a place where you're no longer pummeling new players.

Adding another layer of prediction on top of that would only make this worse, and would only be of benefit in a scenario where you can see your rating (and it actually mattered). Say you're a 1,500 player, but you're running really good stuff so the game treats you as a 1,700 player. If you lose your match, you only get shoved further down into matches with less experienced players who are not prepared to deal with the meta you're running. In a scenario where you can see your rating and it means something, sure, this matters. This stops someone from artificially boosting their rating by running all the best stuff. This is not, however, the case. Your rating means nothing beyond placing you in matches where you've got an equal chance of winning and losing, and it already does that without predictive penalties & bonuses.

You should really sticky something like this at the top - or make a FAQ which includes information like these that lay out the basic fundamentals of how matchmaking systems like ELO/Glicko/TrueSkill are usually created, and why they usually only consider win conditions and not players' performance levels within each match. Of course, most people aren't here to learn about how matchmaking systems usually get made, and rather just lash out and vent at things they don't understand, but I'm sure there are always few people who are genuinely curious about MMR and the theories behind it.

I'd also mention about the difference between MMR and how the actual matchmaking gets made. As in, the difference between the algorithm to rate players, and the overall matchmaking that includes that algorithm, but also takes into account for things like players' queue times and the server/player location. There are too many people on the forums that don't seem to understand that even if SBMM is functioning correctly, they may constantly end up with opponents who shouldn't be in the same ratings in their matches due to BHVR's decisions to alleviate queue times and/or to make sure players are not lagging in their matches. Every pvp online games have to balance those elements out - but for some reason, your forum members seem to believe that it's because of SBMM.

This also does not factor in the fact that not all perks are equal. Some perks are stronger when combined with other perks/add-ons. Take Dead Man's Switch, for example. On its own, it's okay. Put in on a Killer like The Artist that can easily force people off of generators and it becomes much stronger. How do you apply a single value to it that doesn't discourage using it on other Killers while also fairly penalizing it on ones that can make full use of it?

It's not just perk-perk and perk-addons synergy, but also random elements like perk-maps or addons-maps synergy. So even if you somehow miraculously figure out a specific value to the likelihood of increase in meeting the win condition for one particular perk, then you would need to assign multiplier values in relation to every other perks, addons, maps, etc. Oh, and every time there is an update to the current state of the game, make sure to repeat the whole process of re-adjusting the value and their multipliers for every single perks/addons/maps/killer powers/etc and how they all interact with each other again! Right, seems doable.

Overall I'm glad MMR was implemented in a way that it did. Hopefully it's revealing a lot of balance issues in the game - you've already mentioned the SWF problem, but MMR should also have shown massive problems at the top and bottom - not just balance-wise, but player population too. Not enough players at the top? Then perhaps BHVR should be lowering the skill ceiling, or making it easier for more players to play like the top players (e.g. adding keyboard and mouse support may increase the player population at the top, etc.) Not enough players at the bottom? Then maybe BHVR should add in a more intricate practice mode with individual killers and map options so that newcomers can jump into the multiplayers with more knowledge and confidence. There are lot of things needed to make the game better - MMR should be revealing those things very clearly right about now.