Confusion on how to handle Twins Killer

PsychoTron

I've seen streams of Twins so I'm not totally in the dark, but I just had a match against the Twins which is probably my 2nd time so far.

1) Is the general strategy to stay in pairs? 4 survivors so (2) and (2)?

I think you do this because you want to be in a healthy state; if you're injured and victor successfully pounces on you, you are dying and victor is still free to roam.

So if victor manages to pounce on me or my paired mate, after removal of victor, we could heal afterwards. Or if victor misses his attack, my paired mate could kick him.

2) Is victor immune to flashlights?

Also, when my mate had victor latched on him back, he didn't remove him and had him on his back for 20-30 sec. while I was working on the generator next to him.

3) Is there a strategy to this?? Is it so charlotte can't grow another victor when my mate has victor latched on his back?

Anything else I should be aware of ? thanks!

Heartbound

Working on a generator with another person can cause the killer perk Discordance to trigger. A popular perk with some killers. I personally prefer to be in a healthy state whenever I reasonably can be, because if you can't spin and make Victor miss you then that means you're in the dying state and if you don't have unbreakable or something similar like Soul Guard you're putting everything into the hands of other survivors.

Yes Victor can be blinded by a flashlight. I'm not sure why you'd want to though, because you have to stand pretty still to aim the flashlight and that gives him a clear shot to pounce on you. Prepare to zig and zag then when Victor misses you, kick him.

If Victor latches onto a survivor, the point of view instantly switches back to Charlotte. Victor can be seen as a white outline while he is on a survivor's back and gives Charlotte a pretty good idea of where to go for the down. However during this. Victor does not naturally regenerate but CAN be recalled off of the survivor after a certain period of time. If you pull Victor off of you fast enough and the person playing killer has poor map sense you can get away before she sees Victor's white outline.

Generally the Twins should be treated with the same caution you would any 115% killer. Some Twins opt in chase to unleash Victor when they get in a chase, while others use him to Pincer attack. If you see Victor just standing around and you get close to him, it triggers killer instinct and Charlotte will know you're nearby. If you're not going to kill Victor, make note of his location and stay away.

This is common around hooks, but if Victor latches onto you he can only hit you once before you smash him. You can't be downed by Victor from full health. Now if Charlotte is guarding the hook and Victor is on patrol that's a little more rough, but if Charlotte isn't aware you went in for the save you have time to get away without getting injured at all.

For me Victor's laugh is hard to hear but he's so uncanny looking it's easy to see him on the approach. Anything with a stunning effect will kill Victor, including things involving perks. That's all I can really think of at the moment.

gentacle

Just a note: if you're crouching near an idle victor it won't trigger killer instinct.

TheClownIsKing

@PsychoTron said:

I've seen streams of Twins so I'm not totally in the dark, but I just had a match against the Twins which is probably my 2nd time so far.

1) Is the general strategy to stay in pairs? 4 survivors so (2) and (2)?

I think you do this because you want to be in a healthy state; if you're injured and victor successfully pounces on you, you are dying and victor is still free to roam.

So if victor manages to pounce on me or my paired mate, after removal of victor, we could heal afterwards. Or if victor misses his attack, my paired mate could kick him.

2) Is victor immune to flashlights?

Also, when my mate had victor latched on him back, he didn't remove him and had him on his back for 20-30 sec. while I was working on the generator next to him.

3) Is there a strategy to this?? Is it so charlotte can't grow another victor when my mate has victor latched on his back?

Anything else I should be aware of ? thanks!

You pair up if injured, stay separated if healthy. If Victor latches onto a healthy survivor, a smart Charlotte will go for any survivors revealed by Killer Instinct

TheClownIsKing

Here’s my comprehensive run down of playing as Twins. Maybe you can find helpful info when against them as survivor.

@TheClownIsKing said:

(TL;DR - Twins now good. Much good killer. Do the thing with Victor. Win. Celebrate with cookie.)

So I absolutely HATED the Twins upon release. Some of you already know this as you may have read one of my few epic rants about how I thought they were the absolute WORST killer ever. I went within days of first trying them from “Twins are fun” to “HOW COULD THEY RELEASE SUCH A TOTAL JOKE OF A KILLER?!?!”

I was seriously having the most terrible experiences in DBD I had ever had playing as Twins, yet for some odd reason I was compelled to stubbornly keep playing them. I just HAD to understand them. I HAD to “get it” and find out why certain design decisions were made. 

I’m pleased to say that I think I’m there now. I’ve been surprised to find out just how cleverly designed the Twins are, and how complex and robust their kit actually is. Probably not since Doc and Demogorgan has a killer given a player such a large amount to digest, although Twins are probably on par with Demogorgan as far as versatility are concerned. 

To summarise everything Twins can do (in no particular order, and will be elaborated further down);

• Stealth.
• Map Pressure.
• Game Stall.
• Tracking.
• Anti-loop.
• Traps/Ambushes.

I won’t go into The Twins Camping and Snowball potential as that’s already pretty well known, so it’s just superfluous to cover it here. For the record I’m in full support of nerfing their camping capability. I.e. Victor should be auto destroyed if he’s already within a specified distance from a hook that Charlotte places a survivor onto. 

Stealth. 

Let’s start with base kit Victor. No other killer or power can move around the map at decently high speed, avoid all survivor detection perks, be difficult to see or hear until it’s far too late, launch into a blazingly fast attack before a survivor even realised what’s hit them, AND cause minor game stall in the process. It’s enough to make Wraith, Ghostface, Myers, and Pig jealous. 

Then as Charlotte, if both her and Victor have been used smartly, and is close by to a survivor that Victor is latched onto, Oblivious increases the odds of approaching that survivor from a vantage the survivor may not be expecting. The delay in Charlotte’s TR returning is a nice touch if wanting to go for other survivors revealed by Killer Instinct. 

Then we have Silencing Cloth, Drop of Perfume, and Cat’s Eye. All of these add ons bolster stealth play by adding further options in clever strategy. Toy Sword may offer Victor a faster pounce charge to try and get a survivor before they manage to turn a corner, but it’s much more satisfying charging pounce with Cat’s Eye, and then have the survivor accidentally run right back into you because they can no longer hear where Victor is. 

Map Pressure. 

This probably needs little explanation. As long as the player smartly manages the distance between Charlotte & Victor by ensuring they’re never too drastically far from each other, they’re able to control a significant chunk of the map by having Victor capitalise on what Charlotte does, and vice versa.

Game Stall.

Victor is probably one of the most effective stall tools out of all of the killer kits. Latching Victor onto healthy survivors regularly takes them out of their objective immediately, and many survivors only create further stall for themselves by going into a panic without thinking clearly about where exactly they SHOULD be running to. This is even more effective If Charlotte focuses her attention onto a survivor revealed by Killer Instinct, giving the Twins 2 for 1 game stall. 

We can’t talk about Victor latching onto survivors without also talking about kidnapping. Here’s my spin on it. I think pretty much any killer would give ANYTHING to have 1 survivor dead at 4, or even still 5 gens left to repair, leaving them to have to deal with only 3 survivors. The odds of success skyrocket when it’s 3 survivors (or less), with 3 or more repairs still left for the survivors to do. A survivor WILLINGLY taking themselves out of their team objective by kidnapping Victor is actually a MASSIVE boon to you as killer. There’s simply no greater game stall than a survivor literally not engaging in their objective. A kidnapper may as well be an Urban Evader doing nothing but creeping around the map perimeter. I almost never intentionally go after the survivor I just latched Victor onto unless I happened to have Charlotte already close by. I almost always try and find someone else. Even better if teammates have been revealed to me by Killer Instinct. If Victor is kidnapped, fine. I can keep monitoring their whereabouts after some time, and very, very rarely do kidnappers NOT at some point go “oh crap! I can see the others are struggling now.”, and will finally get rid of Victor so they can actually try to help again. Kidnapping Victor is a red herring. They’re trying to psyche you out. Don’t let them. 

Tracking.

This probably also doesn’t need much elaboration. Killer Instinct activating whenever Victor is either latched onto a survivor, or whenever he is used as a sentry is an invaluable tool that should be utilised at its utmost potential. This can work to help with game stall if survivors start crouch walking the 12 metres towards Victor to counter Killer Instinct. Using either Soured Milk, or Madeleines Glove (or both) makes this even stronger, whether for the increased detection range, or to make survivors crouch walk over a further distance as a counter to Killer Instinct. This also leads me into...

Traps & Ambushes. 

Victor, used as a Sentry, can additionally act as a trap/bait for survivors. Or when either Silencing Cloth or Drop of Perfume are used (whether with or without Soured Milk or Madeleines Glove) allow Charlotte to ambush a survivor given away by Killer Instinct when they’re approaching Victor. Even better if you set up intentional baits using either Toy Soldier or Iridescent Pendant. It’s shocking just how effective a strategy it is to send Victor to a key point of interest, such as a gen you’re certain survivors are going to quickly return to, leave him idle, but immediately switch back from Charlotte to Victor again because you’ve heard/seen Killer Instinct activate the very instant you switched to Charlotte, knowing that a survivor is running in to try and kick Victor (they can’t resist). Now you’re controlling Victor, the survivor is right next to you confused, and they are now able to be pounced on because of the vulnerable, compromised position they’re in. 

Anti-Loop. 

Whenever controlling Charlotte, and Victor is with you, The Twins have some of the strongest anti-loop in the game. Stop at the most advantageous spot in a loop for a survivor (provided it’s not within stun distance of a pallet), and then unleash Victor. With Charlotte body blocking the survivors ability to attempt another lap of the same loop, and Victor hot on their tail, they’re often forced to abandon the loop, which potentially puts them out in the open while you’re chasing as Victor, hoping they’re able to successfully dodge Victor’s next pounce. It’s worth noting that the reverse can be done too. If Victor is chasing someone that’s demonstrated that they’re adept at regularly dodging pounce, and Charlotte’s close by, then parking Victor in a spot at a loop that forces the survivor to stop and kick him in order to pass usually allows enough time to get Charlotte there to hit them while the survivor is animation locked. At Shack placing Charlotte on the inside of the Window, facing inward to unleash Victor leaves a survivor with only being able to do another half lap of shack, and through the interior once more before they can hope that Victor cannot land a pounce before they reach the pallet, something Victor can leap over anyway. At worst, if the pounce is missed, the pallet is down and Charlotte can get rid of it. 1 and a half laps by the survivor, and the pallet is gone. Some killers would die of envy to be able to get rid of shack pallet this quickly. 

Now let’s look at how the Twins 3 teachable perks compliment their abilities. I hold the philosophy that teachable perks are never random. I believe there’s a deliberate reason killers have certain perks tied to them. 

Coup De Grace. 

I wouldn’t exactly say this perk synergises with the Twins power directly. This perk is more about in the event that Charlotte is either without Victor, or it is not ideal to switch to Victor mid chase, Coup De Grace ensures Charlotte at least has SOMETHING up her sleeve up to 5 times per match. It’s also currently one of the best available counters to Dead Hard. 

Hoarder.

I’ve totally changed my tune about Hoarder. I was at first totally bummed out about the fact that a way couldn’t be figured out how to make the original concept work: that Hoarder also reduced item rarity. I dismissed the perk as being a complete waste of a perk slot. I’m still disappointed that the perk doesn’t reduce item rarity (making the perk somewhat risky to use), and I do hope this is revisited and they find a way to make the perk reduce item rarity, but Twins actually get GREAT value out of Hoarder. As weird as this comparison is, Hoarder is kinda like Overcharge. My meaning being: just as no other killer gets as much value out of Overcharge as Doc does, no other killer can capitalise on the information Hoarder gives quite the same way Twins can. Sure, you could use it on a high mobility killer, but survivors will hear them coming. Even Wraith is going to give himself away before getting close enough to a chest to uncloak. But Charlotte can immediately send Victor off in the direction of a chest notification, using Victor’s speed AND stealth ambush a survivor still locked in the chest opening (or pick up) animation by pouncing on them just outside of shriek range. Getting a basement chest notification is comedy gold. And with either Spinning Top and/or Franklin’s Demise, Twins get even MORE value out of Hoarder, either as extra tracking, reconnaissance (just to stay informed), or further ambush opportunities. 

Oppression. 

The gen regression potential of Oppression is pretty easy to understand (opinions on how effective this is or isn’t notwithstanding). But it’s more noteworthy how Oppression works as a tracking tool. Failed skill check after activating Oppression? Now you know where to send Victor next. It doesn’t get more straight forward than that. 

Closing thoughts. 

Twins are hard, and deserving of the difficulty advice label given in game. But this is more than just how they operate mechanically: both the challenge of accurately landing a pounce, and how punishing it can be for a single miss. It’s also because of how deeply complex their total kit is (comparatively speaking, against other killers). They’re a very rewarding killer once confidence is built around using everything at the Twins disposal at the appropriate times, and learning when to change gears to another of their many available strategies.