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Camping/Tunneling Will Never Be Solved

ModernFable ModernFable
in General Discussions

Introduction

Welcome fellow citizens of the Fog, I am the Modern Fable and I wish to review an ongoing debate or discussion rather, that has persisted throughout the community for as long as I have been in it, and surely long before: camping (and tunneling). However, preceding the review itself, I shall provide a short list of what I am about to cover.

Definitions For Reference
Perception
Previous Suggestions
Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)
My Suggestions

It should be noted beforehand that there is no perfect solution to camping or tunneling. While the developers may choose to make harsher punishments for doing so or give rewards for choosing not to, there will always be players who will choose to do so for various reasons, regardless of the consequences.

Definitions

To start off the discussion of camping/tunneling, we must first establish a common ground to properly examine and communicate our ideas with one other. While exact definitions for camping and tunneling may vary wildly amongst players, for the purpose of this discussion I will personally provide a definition for each, and whenever I or anyone else confers about them in this particular discussion, do so with these definitions in mind.

Camping: The act of remaining in close proximity to a hooked Survivor as a Killer for an extended period of time.

Tunneling: The act of repeatedly hitting and hooking a single Survivor as a Killer while actively ignoring other Survivors.

Perception

Now with the definitions set, I will delve into various outlooks on camping/tunneling as well as previous suggestions from the community I have witnessed in my short time with this community. Beginning with the negative perceptions of camping/tunneling, many players have made remarks along the lines of "_____ is unfun, not skillful, and toxic." Although other players may defend this gameplay instances with statements such as "_____ is a valid strategy, not the player's fault, and a part of the game." In both examples, the testimonies of these players are opinions, personal conclusions constructed by their particular experiences with Dead by Daylight.

Previous Suggestions and Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)

Interestingly enough, much of the negative and positive assessments of camping/tunneling are not entirely dichotomized, or to say, not directly opposed with one another. Rather the assorted opinions tend to narrow in on different aspects of camping/tunneling, but let's move on to player suggestions. Players have made their fair share of attempts at tackling camping/tunneling such as harsher Emblem penalties for these actions, Blood Point reductions, or bans as well as many other punishments. There has also been actions taken by Behavior themselves recently (2.3.0), one being a change to Devout rewarding hooking all Survivors, and the other penalizing Chaser for remaining within 16 meters of a hooked Survivor. Two different approaches to tackling the presumed issue, a reward and a punishment.

My Suggestions

Onto my personal suggestions, I'd prefer to undertake the situation with a carrot, rather than a stick. The first thing that must be considered before trying to stop players from camping/tunneling is understanding why an individual would choose to do it in the first place. The possible reasons for doing each are numerous so I'll provide a short lineup.

Killer may have seen the specific player as a larger threat
Killer may have developed a personal dislike for the specific player
Killer may have discovered other Survivors in close proximity to the hook
Killer may have Perks or Add-Ons that support this particular strategy
Killer may have reasons to confirm a kill
Killer may lack incentives to do otherwise
Etc..

While there are numerous methods at deterring players from camping/tunneling, I'd like to particularly avoid punishments to Emblems as the effects may often actually be incentives by further providing means to De-Pip, considering there are currently no benefits to rising through the ranks, although that is a separate issue that I have examined in another discussion. However, moving onto my possible solutions, I'd like to reward the player for choosing more widely enjoyable gameplay strategies and interacting with different Survivors often without heavily punishing them for doing the opposite. I would also like to compensate the Survivor when they are the target of camping or tunneling where they are currently not, despite the fact that it is often providing advantages to other Survivors and your team as a whole by deterring the Killer's attention, but let's go over the possible changes.

Killer Changes:

Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 0.5 Devout Points and 100 Chaser Points (Max 6 and 1,200)
Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 800 Blood Points (Max 9,600)

Survivor Changes:

While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards .5 Benevolent Points per second (Max 90)
While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards 10 Blood Points per second (Max 1,800)
Being hooked in succession rewards 15 Benevolent Points (Max 45)
Being hooked in succession twice will automatically reward a Bronze Unbroken
Being hooked in succession rewards 1500 Blood Points (Max 3,000)

Conclusion

I want to reiterate once more that there are no definite solutions to camping or tunneling, there will always be players who do and don't it for different reasons, some more reasonable than others. As opposed to punishing players for potentially practical uses of these strategies, I find it for more effective to reward players that actively choose gameplay strategies which involve all players in the game and are more widely accepted as "fun." At the same time, in the instances where these strategies are employed, be it out of necessity or otherwise, I wish to properly reward the players in question whose experiences are possibly being diminished. Regardless, feel free to discuss, I appreciate to seeing new ideas and receiving feedback. That's all for now, I am the Modern Fable, and I'll see you guys in the Fog.

Comments

  • Lowbei Lowbei
    ok #1, your name is ridiculous and makes you look like a weirdo, no offense.

    #2, camping and tunnelling are valid legit tactics that are part of the game and will always be.

    #3, i like when people put thought into their posts, but this is the 2nd large rant ive seen from you that will go nowhere, and seems like a waste of your time, and anyone who might read it.


  • The_Fallen_Utopia The_Fallen_Utopia
    ModernFable said:

    Introduction

    Welcome fellow citizens of the Fog, I am the Modern Fable and I wish to review an ongoing debate or discussion rather, that has persisted throughout the community for as long as I have been in it, and surely long before: camping (and tunneling). However, preceding the review itself, I shall provide a short list of what I am about to cover.

    Definitions For Reference
    Perception
    Previous Suggestions
    Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)
    My Suggestions

    It should be noted beforehand that there is no perfect solution to camping or tunneling. While the developers may choose to make harsher punishments for doing so or give rewards for choosing not to, there will always be players who will choose to do so for various reasons, regardless of the consequences.

    Definitions

    To start off the discussion of camping/tunneling, we must first establish a common ground to properly examine and communicate our ideas with one other. While exact definitions for camping and tunneling may vary wildly amongst players, for the purpose of this discussion I will personally provide a definition for each, and whenever I or anyone else confers about them in this particular discussion, do so with these definitions in mind.

    Camping: The act of remaining in close proximity to a hooked Survivor as a Killer for an extended period of time.

    Tunneling: The act of repeatedly hitting and hooking a single Survivor as a Killer while actively ignoring other Survivors.

    Perception

    Now with the definitions set, I will delve into various outlooks on camping/tunneling as well as previous suggestions from the community I have witnessed in my short time with this community. Beginning with the negative perceptions of camping/tunneling, many players have made remarks along the lines of "_____ is unfun, not skillful, and toxic." Although other players may defend this gameplay instances with statements such as "_____ is a valid strategy, not the player's fault, and a part of the game." In both examples, the testimonies of these players are opinions, personal conclusions constructed by their particular experiences with Dead by Daylight.

    Previous Suggestions and Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)

    Interestingly enough, much of the negative and positive assessments of camping/tunneling are not entirely dichotomized, or to say, not directly opposed with one another. Rather the assorted opinions tend to narrow in on different aspects of camping/tunneling, but let's move on to player suggestions. Players have made their fair share of attempts at tackling camping/tunneling such as harsher Emblem penalties for these actions, Blood Point reductions, or bans as well as many other punishments. There has also been actions taken by Behavior themselves recently (2.3.0), one being a change to Devout rewarding hooking all Survivors, and the other penalizing Chaser for remaining within 16 meters of a hooked Survivor. Two different approaches to tackling the presumed issue, a reward and a punishment.

    My Suggestions

    Onto my personal suggestions, I'd prefer to undertake the situation with a carrot, rather than a stick. The first thing that must be considered before trying to stop players from camping/tunneling is understanding why an individual would choose to do it in the first place. The possible reasons for doing each are numerous so I'll provide a short lineup.

    Killer may have seen the specific player as a larger threat
    Killer may have developed a personal dislike for the specific player
    Killer may have discovered other Survivors in close proximity to the hook
    Killer may have Perks or Add-Ons that support this particular strategy
    Killer may have reasons to confirm a kill
    Killer may lack incentives to do otherwise
    Etc..

    While there are numerous methods at deterring players from camping/tunneling, I'd like to particularly avoid punishments to Emblems as the effects may often actually be incentives by further providing means to De-Pip, considering there are currently no benefits to rising through the ranks, although that is a separate issue that I have examined in another discussion. However, moving onto my possible solutions, I'd like to reward the player for choosing more widely enjoyable gameplay strategies and interacting with different Survivors often without heavily punishing them for doing the opposite. I would also like to compensate the Survivor when they are the target of camping or tunneling where they are currently not, despite the fact that it is often providing advantages to other Survivors and your team as a whole by deterring the Killer's attention, but let's go over the possible changes.

    Killer Changes:

    Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 0.5 Devout Points and 100 Chaser Points (Max 6 and 1,200)
    Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 800 Blood Points (Max 9,600)

    Survivor Changes:

    While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards .5 Benevolent Points per second (Max 90)
    While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards 10 Blood Points per second (Max 1,800)
    Being hooked in succession rewards 15 Benevolent Points (Max 45)
    Being hooked in succession twice will automatically reward a Bronze Unbroken
    Being hooked in succession rewards 1500 Blood Points (Max 3,000)

    Conclusion

    I want to reiterate once more that there are no definite solutions to camping or tunneling, there will always be players who do and don't it for different reasons, some more reasonable than others. As opposed to punishing players for potentially practical uses of these strategies, I find it for more effective to reward players that actively choose gameplay strategies which involve all players in the game and are more widely accepted as "fun." At the same time, in the instances where these strategies are employed, be it out of necessity or otherwise, I wish to properly reward the players in question whose experiences are possibly being diminished. Regardless, feel free to discuss, I appreciate to seeing new ideas and receiving feedback. That's all for now, I am the Modern Fable, and I'll see you guys in the Fog.

    While I can appreciate the thought put into this post I don't honestly think these changes would do enough or anything. While some killers camp because they feel like it most will camp when it becomes necessary.. Example when generators are going too fast and they need a kill. When the matches are slowed down enough so camping is almost never needed then maybe something could be done but right now trying to solve the problem without solving what causes it simply won't work. I hope I didn't come across as rude while writing this I just thought I'd leave my honest opinion here. 
  • DeadByFlashlight DeadByFlashlight

    @ModernFable said:

    Introduction

    Welcome fellow citizens of the Fog, I am the Modern Fable and I wish to review an ongoing debate or discussion rather, that has persisted throughout the community for as long as I have been in it, and surely long before: camping (and tunneling). However, preceding the review itself, I shall provide a short list of what I am about to cover.

    Definitions For Reference
    Perception
    Previous Suggestions
    Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)
    My Suggestions

    It should be noted beforehand that there is no perfect solution to camping or tunneling. While the developers may choose to make harsher punishments for doing so or give rewards for choosing not to, there will always be players who will choose to do so for various reasons, regardless of the consequences.

    Definitions

    To start off the discussion of camping/tunneling, we must first establish a common ground to properly examine and communicate our ideas with one other. While exact definitions for camping and tunneling may vary wildly amongst players, for the purpose of this discussion I will personally provide a definition for each, and whenever I or anyone else confers about them in this particular discussion, do so with these definitions in mind.

    Camping: The act of remaining in close proximity to a hooked Survivor as a Killer for an extended period of time.

    Tunneling: The act of repeatedly hitting and hooking a single Survivor as a Killer while actively ignoring other Survivors.

    Perception

    Now with the definitions set, I will delve into various outlooks on camping/tunneling as well as previous suggestions from the community I have witnessed in my short time with this community. Beginning with the negative perceptions of camping/tunneling, many players have made remarks along the lines of "_____ is unfun, not skillful, and toxic." Although other players may defend this gameplay instances with statements such as "_____ is a valid strategy, not the player's fault, and a part of the game." In both examples, the testimonies of these players are opinions, personal conclusions constructed by their particular experiences with Dead by Daylight.

    Previous Suggestions and Behavior's Recent Actions (2.3.0)

    Interestingly enough, much of the negative and positive assessments of camping/tunneling are not entirely dichotomized, or to say, not directly opposed with one another. Rather the assorted opinions tend to narrow in on different aspects of camping/tunneling, but let's move on to player suggestions. Players have made their fair share of attempts at tackling camping/tunneling such as harsher Emblem penalties for these actions, Blood Point reductions, or bans as well as many other punishments. There has also been actions taken by Behavior themselves recently (2.3.0), one being a change to Devout rewarding hooking all Survivors, and the other penalizing Chaser for remaining within 16 meters of a hooked Survivor. Two different approaches to tackling the presumed issue, a reward and a punishment.

    My Suggestions

    Onto my personal suggestions, I'd prefer to undertake the situation with a carrot, rather than a stick. The first thing that must be considered before trying to stop players from camping/tunneling is understanding why an individual would choose to do it in the first place. The possible reasons for doing each are numerous so I'll provide a short lineup.

    Killer may have seen the specific player as a larger threat
    Killer may have developed a personal dislike for the specific player
    Killer may have discovered other Survivors in close proximity to the hook
    Killer may have Perks or Add-Ons that support this particular strategy
    Killer may have reasons to confirm a kill
    Killer may lack incentives to do otherwise
    Etc..

    While there are numerous methods at deterring players from camping/tunneling, I'd like to particularly avoid punishments to Emblems as the effects may often actually be incentives by further providing means to De-Pip, considering there are currently no benefits to rising through the ranks, although that is a separate issue that I have examined in another discussion. However, moving onto my possible solutions, I'd like to reward the player for choosing more widely enjoyable gameplay strategies and interacting with different Survivors often without heavily punishing them for doing the opposite. I would also like to compensate the Survivor when they are the target of camping or tunneling where they are currently not, despite the fact that it is often providing advantages to other Survivors and your team as a whole by deterring the Killer's attention, but let's go over the possible changes.

    Killer Changes:

    Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 0.5 Devout Points and 100 Chaser Points (Max 6 and 1,200)
    Hooking different Survivors in succession rewards 800 Blood Points (Max 9,600)

    Survivor Changes:

    While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards .5 Benevolent Points per second (Max 90)
    While within 24 meters or Line of Sight of the Killer while on hook rewards 10 Blood Points per second (Max 1,800)
    Being hooked in succession rewards 15 Benevolent Points (Max 45)
    Being hooked in succession twice will automatically reward a Bronze Unbroken
    Being hooked in succession rewards 1500 Blood Points (Max 3,000)

    Conclusion

    I want to reiterate once more that there are no definite solutions to camping or tunneling, there will always be players who do and don't it for different reasons, some more reasonable than others. As opposed to punishing players for potentially practical uses of these strategies, I find it for more effective to reward players that actively choose gameplay strategies which involve all players in the game and are more widely accepted as "fun." At the same time, in the instances where these strategies are employed, be it out of necessity or otherwise, I wish to properly reward the players in question whose experiences are possibly being diminished. Regardless, feel free to discuss, I appreciate to seeing new ideas and receiving feedback. That's all for now, I am the Modern Fable, and I'll see you guys in the Fog.

    I like how you structured your post.
    Yes, I agree that there must be INCENTIVES not to tunnel like you suggested, but the core issue of the game is that gentime forces you to tunnel if you actually want to get sth done. Tunneling the first survivor to death is the most efficient strategy to earn BP and emblem points because you need to slow down the game first. Your suggestion to give killers extra BP for hooking other survivors doesnt change that, are these BP in an extra category btw? if not, then there is no reason not to tunnel because you will max out the sacrifice category if you do well anyway (doing well = tunneling)

    Also, I dont believe that the camp punishment from the PTB actually makes it into the game, but we will see^^

  • Lowbei Lowbei
    yeah, i dont mean to be a dick if it came off that way, but huge camper/tunnel rants are zzz
  • George_Soros George_Soros

    @ModernFable said:

    Introduction

    Too many words. Me no understand.
    But you say camping and tunneling good, is you? Then you is right.

  • Rex_Huin Rex_Huin

    I think we all just need to accept camping and tunnelling as part of the unchanging, god given order of things.

    As natural as rainfall , sunshine or the oink of a new born pig.

  • RWoodrow RWoodrow
    Your title says it all really. Camping/tunneling will never be solved.

    The change in the PTB makes me want to stock up on ingredients for s'mores (I'm not a huge fan of camping, but I dislike rank 1 survivors more) and your proposed change, while not without it's merits, makes me start thinking about slug builds which is number 3 (?) on most survivors complaint list.
  • DeadByFlashlight DeadByFlashlight

    @Rex_Huin said:
    I think we all just need to accept camping and tunnelling as part of the unchanging, god given order of things.

    As natural as rainfall , sunshine or the oink of a new born pig.

    And yet the devs are starting to punish killers for camping even though they know how survivors abused it already in the first PTB :lol:

  • HellDescent HellDescent

    No, it won't. DBD will always have toxic and unsportsmanlike community.

  • [Deleted User] [Deleted User]

    I didn't read the post because it was just a massive wall of text but I didn't need to read it. I can respond to this just by reading the title. These imaginary issues don't require an imaginary solution because they are valid ways of playing the game. They have drawbacks so I don't see the issue. How many tunneling/camping complaint threads do we need?

    EDIT Spelling.

  • Raccoon Raccoon
    As previously mentioned, a solution requires a problem. 
  • Jesya Jesya

    another thread, really?
    This couldn't have been added to the other 839274893275831265451248931204 posts about this on the forums? This argument goes no where.

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